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Player Watch - Tanguy Ndombele

Ionman34

SC Supporter
Jun 1, 2011
7,182
16,793
Agree.
You just have to look at how the other players performed in the second half.
It's how we are set up that makes some player look worse than they are.
In the second have we had the correct attitude and wanted to score, not just sit back and wait.
I'm sure Ndombele would've player a lot better in the second half

The change made was to the back line and to bring on Moura for an additional front player. All he did with the midfield was change the personnel. With that change we gained control because we had Lo Celso taking the ball under pressure and using it well, along with him doing the hard yards to take some pressure off our defence. Ndombele did none of that really, and it exposed Skipp who was chasing around trying to plug gaps after playing 2 hours of Football just 3 days ago.

It wasn’t the setup at all, it was the personnel.

Should give a shout out to Dier as well as that’s the best midfield performance from him in a long while.
 

Tottenhamboy85

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
2,501
7,877
The change made was to the back line and to bring on Moura for an additional front player. All he did with the midfield was change the personnel. With that change we gained control because we had Lo Celso taking the ball under pressure and using it well, along with him doing the hard yards to take some pressure off our defence. Ndombele did none of that really, and it exposed Skipp who was chasing around trying to plug gaps after playing 2 hours of Football just 3 days ago.

It wasn’t the setup at all, it was the personnel.

Should give a shout out to Dier as well as that’s the best midfield performance from him in a long while.
We pushed the Fbs ( well cbs ) much higher in the second half as well
 

DanielJohnCosta

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2015
1,645
5,812
I've just watched the game back before I made this post, I wanted to make sure I was correct from the first time I watched the match as it was 4:30 am Aus time and you know how the brain works at that time.

Before I post this I want to say that I'm 100% a big Ndombele fan and that I don't want my bias towards him to influence the post, I'll try not to include it but I'm seething at the moment.

Now I might understand there are external things happening around the club in relation to Mourinho and Ndombele that we have no idea about but I'm going to stay strictly to this game we just played, the player, and the quotes post-match by Mourinho.

Ndombele

in short, I think he played a very decent game. I believe it was once he got caught in possession but other than that he was able to dribble past and beat a player or two on a few occasions. His passing was also solid. One of the very few players who actually had the nerve to play a forward pass. When he was pressured he almost 100% was able to one-touch to an open player, rarely giving cheap possession over. Now the big thing is his fitness level in the game and this is why I wanted to watch it back to make sure I was correct the first time. I DID NOT see a drop off of his level of fitness during the game, watching back it was also evident his defensive and offensive contribution in the 37 towards the end of the half was better than when he started the match. He was moving just as well as anyone and I could honestly not question that aspect of his game. I'm more than happy for anyone to call me out on that but I stand 100% confident.

Mourinho

this is where it gets ugly for me. firstly let's talk about the formation. This has been a problem for a while but the current Mourinho system DOES not facilitate for a player of the qualities that Ndombele possesses. I like to think of the midfield in our system as the centre of a sandwich where there is nothing within the sandwich. The back 3 essentially controls the possession, with the midfield dropping team but often covered by the opposition effectively running them out of the game hence the necessity of the defenders to play the ball up to the front 3 before we engage in the midfield who joins the attack. This system does not facilitate Ndombele and this is no knock on Winks but it's perfect for a no-frill midfielder who plays his back to the defense and is happy to one-touch and play a backward pass back to the CB. Ndombele is a forward passer, he is an acute dribbler who wants to beat his man and drive forward. it is totally everything what Mourinho is setting his midfield to do. His quotes today for me are not justified, and frankly rather appalling. He's totally taken no accountability of his tactics (or lack of) and instead shifted the blame on a young, very talented, but also vulnerable future star player for the club. This for me is why I'm so enraged.


feel free to not read this, or disagree with me. For me, this is the first instance I've seen of the toxicity that Mourinho brings to a football club and that United fans warned us about. I've seen a lot of people on twitter etc. say Mourinho is correct in his comments to Ndombele and like I said before he may be correct in his assessment as we don't see him outside of the football pitch but in this game, at that moment and with how everything was set up and he played it was 100% not justified.
 

Ionman34

SC Supporter
Jun 1, 2011
7,182
16,793
Jose’s tactics where also awful, even worse than Ndombele, he should have called himself out as well.
As I said in the previous post, the tactics were not at fault, not for the first half midfield display anyway. He replaced Skipp & Ndombele with Lo Celso and Dier in midfield and put Moura up front. All 3 of those players worked their socks off after playing 2 hours midweek.
 

southlondonyiddo

My eyes have seen some of the glory..
Nov 8, 2004
12,599
15,012
Jose’s tactics where also awful, even worse than Ndombele, he should have called himself out as well.

You think his tactics were to leave acres and acres of room in the middle of the park unguarded and for a key player in the middle to not show for the ball enough and stroll around for the most part, as he watched the game pass him by

Cant play with 10 men. Not good enough and Jose is right. Doesn’t deserve a start. Doesn’t really deserve any game time. He doesn’t put enough in and it’s not fair on his teammates
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2009
17,094
22,286
I've just watched the game back before I made this post, I wanted to make sure I was correct from the first time I watched the match as it was 4:30 am Aus time and you know how the brain works at that time.

Before I post this I want to say that I'm 100% a big Ndombele fan and that I don't want my bias towards him to influence the post, I'll try not to include it but I'm seething at the moment.

Now I might understand there are external things happening around the club in relation to Mourinho and Ndombele that we have no idea about but I'm going to stay strictly to this game we just played, the player, and the quotes post-match by Mourinho.

Ndombele

in short, I think he played a very decent game. I believe it was once he got caught in possession but other than that he was able to dribble past and beat a player or two on a few occasions. His passing was also solid. One of the very few players who actually had the nerve to play a forward pass. When he was pressured he almost 100% was able to one-touch to an open player, rarely giving cheap possession over. Now the big thing is his fitness level in the game and this is why I wanted to watch it back to make sure I was correct the first time. I DID NOT see a drop off of his level of fitness during the game, watching back it was also evident his defensive and offensive contribution in the 37 towards the end of the half was better than when he started the match. He was moving just as well as anyone and I could honestly not question that aspect of his game. I'm more than happy for anyone to call me out on that but I stand 100% confident.

Mourinho

this is where it gets ugly for me. firstly let's talk about the formation. This has been a problem for a while but the current Mourinho system DOES not facilitate for a player of the qualities that Ndombele possesses. I like to think of the midfield in our system as the centre of a sandwich where there is nothing within the sandwich. The back 3 essentially controls the possession, with the midfield dropping team but often covered by the opposition effectively running them out of the game hence the necessity of the defenders to play the ball up to the front 3 before we engage in the midfield who joins the attack. This system does not facilitate Ndombele and this is no knock on Winks but it's perfect for a no-frill midfielder who plays his back to the defense and is happy to one-touch and play a backward pass back to the CB. Ndombele is a forward passer, he is an acute dribbler who wants to beat his man and drive forward. it is totally everything what Mourinho is setting his midfield to do. His quotes today for me are not justified, and frankly rather appalling. He's totally taken no accountability of his tactics (or lack of) and instead shifted the blame on a young, very talented, but also vulnerable future star player for the club. This for me is why I'm so enraged.


feel free to not read this, or disagree with me. For me, this is the first instance I've seen of the toxicity that Mourinho brings to a football club and that United fans warned us about. I've seen a lot of people on twitter etc. say Mourinho is correct in his comments to Ndombele and like I said before he may be correct in his assessment as we don't see him outside of the football pitch but in this game, at that moment and with how everything was set up and he played it was 100% not justified.
Yeah you're right. Your previous bias renders this completely and utterly irrelevant.
 

NHAndy

Active Member
Aug 2, 2010
166
237
I wasn’t able to watch the game live so watched a recording AFTER seeing the result and reading Mourinho’s comments. I was expecting to see a player in Ndombele who was ineffective and not trying. But I didn’t. I saw a player who controlled and moved the ball nicely at times and who was clearly chasing and trying but looked completely low in confidence and totally unsure of what he was supposed to be doing.

Any deficiencies in his performance today, I think, are more attributable to Mourinho’s management and line-up than Ndombele’s inability.
 

fuzzylogic

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2004
4,741
9,098
In a seasons time, N'dombele will have settled somewhere and be an elite player who takes risks, and is brave. Probably not with us because he'll have been driven out.

Mourinho will still be a washed up cowardly manager playing a back 5 of 5 centre backs and wondering why the midfield looks awful. He'll be tearing some other poor **** midfielder apart to protect his neck, totally unable to see his own flaws.

You been on the gear mate?!?! Or do you see a different set of fit players than our manager
 

For the love of Spurs

Well-Known Member
Mar 28, 2015
3,444
11,252
You think his tactics were to leave acres and acres of room in the middle of the park unguarded and for a key player in the middle to not show for the ball enough and stroll around for the most part, as he watched the game pass him by

Cant play with 10 men. Not good enough and Jose is right. Doesn’t deserve a start. Doesn’t really deserve any game time. He doesn’t put enough in and it’s not fair on his teammates

Maybe he played badly so did several others in the first half but having a back 5 against bloody Burnley and gifting them the way we did was stupid.
 

kaz Hirai

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2008
17,692
25,340
I've just watched the game back before I made this post, I wanted to make sure I was correct from the first time I watched the match as it was 4:30 am Aus time and you know how the brain works at that time.

Before I post this I want to say that I'm 100% a big Ndombele fan and that I don't want my bias towards him to influence the post, I'll try not to include it but I'm seething at the moment.

Now I might understand there are external things happening around the club in relation to Mourinho and Ndombele that we have no idea about but I'm going to stay strictly to this game we just played, the player, and the quotes post-match by Mourinho.

Ndombele

in short, I think he played a very decent game. I believe it was once he got caught in possession but other than that he was able to dribble past and beat a player or two on a few occasions. His passing was also solid. One of the very few players who actually had the nerve to play a forward pass. When he was pressured he almost 100% was able to one-touch to an open player, rarely giving cheap possession over. Now the big thing is his fitness level in the game and this is why I wanted to watch it back to make sure I was correct the first time. I DID NOT see a drop off of his level of fitness during the game, watching back it was also evident his defensive and offensive contribution in the 37 towards the end of the half was better than when he started the match. He was moving just as well as anyone and I could honestly not question that aspect of his game. I'm more than happy for anyone to call me out on that but I stand 100% confident.

Mourinho

this is where it gets ugly for me. firstly let's talk about the formation. This has been a problem for a while but the current Mourinho system DOES not facilitate for a player of the qualities that Ndombele possesses. I like to think of the midfield in our system as the centre of a sandwich where there is nothing within the sandwich. The back 3 essentially controls the possession, with the midfield dropping team but often covered by the opposition effectively running them out of the game hence the necessity of the defenders to play the ball up to the front 3 before we engage in the midfield who joins the attack. This system does not facilitate Ndombele and this is no knock on Winks but it's perfect for a no-frill midfielder who plays his back to the defense and is happy to one-touch and play a backward pass back to the CB. Ndombele is a forward passer, he is an acute dribbler who wants to beat his man and drive forward. it is totally everything what Mourinho is setting his midfield to do. His quotes today for me are not justified, and frankly rather appalling. He's totally taken no accountability of his tactics (or lack of) and instead shifted the blame on a young, very talented, but also vulnerable future star player for the club. This for me is why I'm so enraged.


feel free to not read this, or disagree with me. For me, this is the first instance I've seen of the toxicity that Mourinho brings to a football club and that United fans warned us about. I've seen a lot of people on twitter etc. say Mourinho is correct in his comments to Ndombele and like I said before he may be correct in his assessment as we don't see him outside of the football pitch but in this game, at that moment and with how everything was set up and he played it was 100% not justified.

Informative post.

I missed the majority of the first half so don't know he played really.
I would download, watch and analyse too but watching us play is too torturous
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2009
17,094
22,286
please tell me where in my post (show me) rather than just saying it.

“In short, I think he had a very decent game.”

Very decent?!

Does that mean something else down under than it does over here? Our first half performance was probably the worst we have produced since Brighton away, it’s impossible to label any part of it as “acceptable” rather than just singling out your favourite player to try to defend what is basically the indefensible at this moment.
 

DanielJohnCosta

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2015
1,645
5,812
“In short, I think he had a very decent game.”

Very decent?!

Does that mean something else down under than it does over here? Our first half performance was probably the worst we have produced since Brighton away, it’s impossible to label any part of it as “acceptable” rather than just singling out your favourite player to try to defend what is basically the indefensible at this moment.

we did play horrible and I don't disagree but you also have to understand my post was purely based on one individual in the system that personally got called out for his performance while no one else did, and that player did have a decent game, as well as anyone in the first half. Please continue with specific things I said that you disagree about.
 

Ionman34

SC Supporter
Jun 1, 2011
7,182
16,793
Yeah you're right. Your previous bias renders this completely and utterly irrelevant.
Not to mention utter rubbish.

All Mourinho did was alter the personnel in midfield and make a slight change to the back line to bring Moura on.

The system only allows for midfielders to lay off to the CB’s so they can play it to the front 3? I must have imagined Lo Celso picking the ball up deep and driving forward with it. I must have imagined him working his chads off pressing Burnley’s midfield to win the ball back too.

That was the fundamental difference in the two halves, a midfield that were missing in the first and a midfield that fought for the ball in the second.
 

southlondonyiddo

My eyes have seen some of the glory..
Nov 8, 2004
12,599
15,012
I wasn’t able to watch the game live so watched a recording AFTER seeing the result and reading Mourinho’s comments. I was expecting to see a player in Ndombele who was ineffective and not trying. But I didn’t. I saw a player who controlled and moved the ball nicely at times and who was clearly chasing and trying but looked completely low in confidence and totally unsure of what he was supposed to be doing.

Any deficiencies in his performance today, I think, are more attributable to Mourinho’s management and line-up than Ndombele’s inability.

Controlled and moved the ball nicely at times- agreed but nowhere near enough times. Not by a long long shot

Clearly chasing- Missed that

Trying - Nowhere near as much as he needs to
 

SpartanSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
12,552
43,063
I've just watched the game back before I made this post, I wanted to make sure I was correct from the first time I watched the match as it was 4:30 am Aus time and you know how the brain works at that time.

Before I post this I want to say that I'm 100% a big Ndombele fan and that I don't want my bias towards him to influence the post, I'll try not to include it but I'm seething at the moment.

Now I might understand there are external things happening around the club in relation to Mourinho and Ndombele that we have no idea about but I'm going to stay strictly to this game we just played, the player, and the quotes post-match by Mourinho.

Ndombele

in short, I think he played a very decent game. I believe it was once he got caught in possession but other than that he was able to dribble past and beat a player or two on a few occasions. His passing was also solid. One of the very few players who actually had the nerve to play a forward pass. When he was pressured he almost 100% was able to one-touch to an open player, rarely giving cheap possession over. Now the big thing is his fitness level in the game and this is why I wanted to watch it back to make sure I was correct the first time. I DID NOT see a drop off of his level of fitness during the game, watching back it was also evident his defensive and offensive contribution in the 37 towards the end of the half was better than when he started the match. He was moving just as well as anyone and I could honestly not question that aspect of his game. I'm more than happy for anyone to call me out on that but I stand 100% confident.

Mourinho

this is where it gets ugly for me. firstly let's talk about the formation. This has been a problem for a while but the current Mourinho system DOES not facilitate for a player of the qualities that Ndombele possesses. I like to think of the midfield in our system as the centre of a sandwich where there is nothing within the sandwich. The back 3 essentially controls the possession, with the midfield dropping team but often covered by the opposition effectively running them out of the game hence the necessity of the defenders to play the ball up to the front 3 before we engage in the midfield who joins the attack. This system does not facilitate Ndombele and this is no knock on Winks but it's perfect for a no-frill midfielder who plays his back to the defense and is happy to one-touch and play a backward pass back to the CB. Ndombele is a forward passer, he is an acute dribbler who wants to beat his man and drive forward. it is totally everything what Mourinho is setting his midfield to do. His quotes today for me are not justified, and frankly rather appalling. He's totally taken no accountability of his tactics (or lack of) and instead shifted the blame on a young, very talented, but also vulnerable future star player for the club. This for me is why I'm so enraged.


feel free to not read this, or disagree with me. For me, this is the first instance I've seen of the toxicity that Mourinho brings to a football club and that United fans warned us about. I've seen a lot of people on twitter etc. say Mourinho is correct in his comments to Ndombele and like I said before he may be correct in his assessment as we don't see him outside of the football pitch but in this game, at that moment and with how everything was set up and he played it was 100% not justified.

I certainly think there are some merits to your assessment, as I don't think it was one of his worst games either. He put in a clattering challenge on the stroke of half time so wasn't just ambling around for the complete 45 as some have suggested. On one hand you can say Lo Celso showed him up badly but he had the benefit of an extra attacker in front of him which I agree can make a big difference in how he is judged as a midfield link man. It's hard to shine as that kind of player in a broken team.

That said overall I feel Ndombele needs to be challenged for some serious fitness issues this season, which may be partly due to injury but I'd imagine there is some unprofessionalism in there somewhere too. The way he's looked at times this season in terms of energy is Sunday league standard. It's been on the verge of parody at its peak, and IMO is not acceptable and gives merit to a public dressing down. Only if he's been playing with an injury that needs surgery on our advice would I truly feel sympathy for him in this situation. I think it was as much about the accumulation of things than purely just his performance today.

He overcame similar accusations in the past to salvage his early career, let's hope he does so again.

I think the way forward with Ndombele would be to accommodate for his current issues by making him a number 10, that way we can better cover his deficiencies and allow him to build confidence and show his quality. The issue we have is that it's also Dele's best position. I hoped Mourinho was going to do this vs Chelsea when I saw the lineup but he went and playing Ndombele deep and GLC wide, d'oh.
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2009
17,094
22,286
we did play horrible and I don't disagree but you also have to understand my post was purely based on one individual in the system that personally got called out for his performance while no one else did, and that player did have a decent game, as well as anyone in the first half. Please continue with specific things I said that you disagree about.
You’re just completely misunderstanding the whole concept of what our approach was. As @Ionman34 said, our approach didn’t really change, just the personnel did. Ndombele jogging around and making a few neat touches isn’t what he was there for. Take note of Lo Celso’s role in the second half for what he was supposed to do.

What was it you said earlier in the week? “None of us deserve him when he hits form” or some shit. We know what side your bread is buttered unfortunately, you’re incapable of being objective at the guy.
 

ToDarrenIsToDo

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2017
1,665
6,291
How much does Mourinho get? It has nothing to do with how much a player earns. Ndombele didn't force Tottenham to pay him that money we courted him.

Jose got his tactics completely wrong first half he decided to pair Skipp with Ndombele and play 5 CB.

What's Ndombele done so far on a Spurs shirt that makes you think he is due a blind eye being given?

If I pick one that's underperforming out of Mourinho as a manager or Tanguy a squad a football, Tanguy is the one letting us down. The bloke lasts 45-60 minutes a game.....Mourinho is piecing together a disheveled team wihnsingle digit top scorers. We need guts from Tanguy, instead we get a player requesting Boxing Day off of work
 

double0

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2006
14,423
12,258
The change made was to the back line and to bring on Moura for an additional front player. All he did with the midfield was change the personnel. With that change we gained control because we had Lo Celso taking the ball under pressure and using it well, along with him doing the hard yards to take some pressure off our defence. Ndombele did none of that really, and it exposed Skipp who was chasing around trying to plug gaps after playing 2 hours of Football just 3 days ago.

It wasn’t the setup at all, it was the personnel.

Should give a shout out to Dier as well as that’s the best midfield performance from him in a long while.
It was all about the tactics let's not kid ourselves. First half Jose did what his been doing of late containment. Ndombele was also plugging gaps and tackling along with Skipp. Lloris failed to push the shot away and the 5 CB's he picked weren't quick enough to clear.... Buts let's blame Ndombele.

Second half he was forced to charge tactics because we were losing the game he made positive changes moved Dier into midfield and put another attacking player on plus he played Aurier further up that opened the game more.

What he went on to say in the interview was unnecessary.
 
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