Player Watch: Tanguy Ndombele

Stamford

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Obviously I don’t know the full story, but from what I can see, Jose is not handling the Ndombele situation well. He’s destroying his confidence, which is clearly low anyway, by humiliating him in public to excuse awful team performances, for which there are many culprits.

He’s done it before with Shaw and it didn’t work.

Don’t like the Parrott stuff either.
The players have to take some responsibility too. Ndombele has had more than enough chances, it's now March
 

spurs mental

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I don’t agree with your angle on his contract but even if all that is true... it does not make a case for calling Ndombele out so publicly and so harshly.

He’s scapegoating him. And using players as collateral will not end well for Jose or the club in the long term. Particularly when we can all see how shit he’s playing. A manager is not a mouthpiece for the fans rightful indignation. His job is to get peak performance out of him and I am doubtful this will work in the short term.
He got 80+ minutes out of Lamela this evening and the bloke cant even train.

This is not about getting peak performance out of him. It's about Ndombele applying himself correctly and wanting to work hard for the team. Something hes shown zero of.
 

Bobbins

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So why did he claim to have learned lessons if those lessons are fundamentally opposed to his leadership style?

Hes an intelligent man and can do better.
You do know danielneeds isn’t Jose right? He’s making suppositions, he’s not actually got any insight more than you or I.

Too much of this debate around Jose contains complete guesswork as to his opinions and attitudes based on media coverage and people’s perceptions. Until Jose tells you how and why he does stuff it’s all just guesswork.
 

wpmcg

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What boils my piss about Mourinho is he has to do the dirty washing in public. Manage him behind the scenes, if you can't get a tune out of him then move him on. That's what the best in last 30 years used to do, Ferguson.
Digging a player out in public is the lowest common denominator which none of the true great managers have ever done.
He's managed him behind the scenes and it didn't work.
 

LeParisien

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He got 80+ minutes out of Lamela this evening and the bloke cant even train.

This is not about getting peak performance out of him. It's about Ndombele applying himself correctly and wanting to work hard for the team. Something hes shown zero of.
A managers job is to get peak performance out of his players - it is about that. Even Ndombele is all these bad things, that does not imply this was the correct approach. There are many ways to get someone to apply themselves better.

Time will tell and if Ndombele responds well to this over the coming weeks and plays really well, no one will be happier than me. I don’t think that will happen.
 

scat1620

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I don’t agree with your angle on his contract but even if all that is true... it does not make a case for calling Ndombele out so publicly and so harshly.

He’s scapegoating him. And using players as collateral will not end well for Jose or the club in the long term. Particularly when we can all see how shit he’s playing. A manager is not a mouthpiece for the fans rightful indignation. His job is to get peak performance out of him and I am doubtful this will work in the short term.
I believe players are also responsible for their performances, a manager can only do so much (albeit of course they have an impact). And I don't think that Ndombele's lacklustre [to be kind] start to his Spurs career has been as result of Pochettino and Mourinho's management of Ndombele more than it has Ndombele's own application and effort. It's very, very clear to me that Ndombele isn't doing everything he can to show the best of himself, and IMO the responsibility for that ultimately lies with Ndombele, not his manager.
 

Ronwol196061

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No sympathy for Ndombele, he's our record transfer and reportedly earning as much as anyone else at the club, and it's about time he started fucking acting like it. People will say he has no control over his transfer fee and that's true, but I doubt very much that when it came time to negotiate his contract Levy went in all Peter Ridsdale/Seth Johnson-style and offered him £200k/week when Tanguy was expecting an offer of £40k/week. He's getting paid as much as Harry Kane because his agent demanded it in return for Ndombele signing as a Tottenham Hotspur player, so he should fucking well live up to his end of the deal and put in as much effort into being the best player he can be as Harry Kane has always done for us.

He clearly isn't doing that at the moment, and Jose is quite right to call him out on it. Ndombele is mugging us all off at the moment and needs to start earning his fucking pay packet, given that it's he and his agent who will have demanded the kind of wages that make him the joint-top earner at the club, not anybody else.
I watched clips of Ndombele at Lyon and he looked fantastic,yes just clips. But what the fuck to our scouts do for a living?????????? Also look at clips??????
Surely they can see the other side of what Poch needed...the defensive side...What kind of scouts are they?
 

LeParisien

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I believe players are also responsible for their performances, a manager can only do so much (albeit of course they have an impact). And I don't think that Ndombele's lacklustre [to be kind] start to his Spurs career has been as result of Pochettino and Mourinho's management of Ndombele: it's very, very clear to me that Ndombele isn't doing everything he can to show the best of himself, and IMO the responsibility for that ultimately lies with Ndombele, not his manager.
That may well be true. I don’t have a view on that because there are a lot of plausible scenarios for his poor performance that we could never know about. But you are almost certainly right that Ndombele should be doing more.

But that doesn’t imply José’s response will encourage that. It is possible that Ndombele should do more and that Jose’s actions will be counterproductive. I don’t think that kind of public lambasting has a great track record.
 

spurs mental

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A managers job is to get peak performance out of his players - it is about that. Even Ndombele is all these bad things, that does not imply this was the correct approach. There are many ways to get someone to apply themselves better.

Time will tell and if Ndombele responds well to this over the coming weeks and plays really well, no one will be happier than me. I don’t think that will happen.
But how can he get peak performance out of a player who cant be bothered to work hard and apply himself or help the team?

Jose has clearly tried to work with him behind the scenes and it hasn't worked. So that's why hes done it this way. Plus it worked with Gio incredibly well. He has been our best player for the last 2 months. So it can work.

Time will tell.
 

Vinny_Sammways_left_peg

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That may well be true. I don’t have a view on that because there are a lot of plausible scenarios for his poor performance that we could never know about. But you are almost certainly right that Ndombele should be doing more.

But that doesn’t imply José’s response will encourage that. It is possible that Ndombele should do more and that Jose’s actions will be counterproductive. I don’t think that kind of public lambasting has a great track record.
Which bit is the lambasting bit in his quote?

Think people are vastly taking this quote and blowing it out of proportion because it's Jose ...
 

LeParisien

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L
But how can he get peak performance out of a player who cant be bothered to work hard and apply himself or help the team?

Jose has clearly tried to work with him behind the scenes and it hasn't worked. So that's why hes done it this way. Plus it worked with Gio incredibly well. He has been our best player for the last 2 months. So it can work.

Time will tell.
Motivating people is tough. But why Mourinho is paid big money. Mourinho knows him much better than I do so let’s hope this doesn’t become another Shaw / Pogba situation... as you say, time will tell
 

ToDarrenIsToDo

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Mourinho got his tactics completely wrong and basically got out of jail by throwing Ndombele under the bus...... So poor. I couldn't believe what I heard from him.
Mourinho did say that without a midfield his defenders didn't have a release off the ball and resorted to long balls because of it. Was it the tactics or the personnel that prevented the tactics from the off? A double change at halftime time and some damning words, along with a better 2nd half suggests to me that maybe it was a bit of both
 

kaz Hirai

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Only recently 23, pretty young guy really like pogba was when Mourinho had him.

He needs to mentally mature and have an attitude of trying to play at a higher level than Tottenham can offer and winning personal titles to be a success.

But I don't think we have the right coach to turn it around for him, it totally got toxic with PP but We'll see.
Should he not make the euros then it's on him to really work.

I hope it is just a maturity thing, and more time spent with ultra professionals like sissoko, Hugo, lamela etc will wisen him up.
 

ToDarrenIsToDo

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Why single one player out but take off two. It was unnecessary.
Skipp is a 19 year old kid making his first start if not one of his first at this level. Skipp also played 2 hours of football on Wednesday, Tanguy played about 40-45 minutes. Ndombele earns £200k per week and cost £52-£62m, Skipp didn't cost a bean.

I think it's clever of Jose, protect one to show you aren't being harsh but call out then one who apparently asked not to play on Boxing Day. Time will tell though
 

Ronwol196061

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Blaming Mourinho re NDombele is silly he says the same thing as Poch.
NDombele I think has a problem. He has been told he us a genius probably when he was 5 and kept the idea.
I've been doing the same with my Grandson. Have to change that
 

fuzzylogic

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A managers job is to get peak performance out of his players - it is about that. Even Ndombele is all these bad things, that does not imply this was the correct approach. There are many ways to get someone to apply themselves better.

Time will tell and if Ndombele responds well to this over the coming weeks and plays really well, no one will be happier than me. I don’t think that will happen.
In my personal experience as an ex Pro footballer every player reacts different to praise/criticism. Jose has done the I wanna build this team around you thing. Will his latest approach work? Who knows but the last one didn’t. Looking between the lines there’s a problem. Will this recover? Don’t honestly seeing it happening myself, shots have now been fired by the manager. And in my own opinion I back the public call out
 
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