There's always next year...
- Aug 9, 2008
I understand what you mean, but I still disagree mate. You make the same point as the original poster in essence. You are saying that the term beast is fair in sports, but when used to describe a black player "it is often to the implied exclusion of more intellectual traits". Whilst there are occasions where this may be true, especially in Ndombele's case, it couldn't be further from the truth. Everyone I think is in agreement that Ndombele's main attributes are his intellect and his technique. So why would "beast" be an issue? It isn't, plainly. As another poster mentioned, your race is irrelevant in the context of this argument. No one has made a characterisation of Ndombele based on the colour of his skin. If they had, then your personal point of view wouldn't only be relevant, it would be crucial.I think you've mischaracterized his point. What I perceive him to be saying is that a POC (somewhat incidental) raised an issue that he may perhaps have a heightened sensitivity for and it seems to have been objected to rather defensively and dismissively. The use of the term 'beast' is often quite fair in terms of sport but when utilized for a POC it is often to the implied exclusion of more intellectual traits. And in the matter of Ndombele his most outstanding qualities are those of the more intellectual variety eg quickness of thought, understanding of space/time/angle, decision making, etc. But he does bring the physicals too.
I feel that 'beast' necessarily focuses on the physical. It is rare that a player is called a beast for their intellectual qualities, no? I can imagine a Pirlo having 'beasted' a game with 2 assists, a tsunami of brilliant passes, and a FK goal but it would be a rare. Now imagine a female doctoral graduate of Oxford and the first descriptor anyone in this forum can come up with is related to her looks. It's diminishing.
That said, the utilization of the term is part of the lexicon of sports and in the case of Ndom I'm not sure I have too much of a problem with it personally because he can 'beast' a game. And just to add to the tumult he can be lazy fekker too. Yeah, I said it and I've watched most of his top flight games and, incidentally, also happen to be black. But I know I'm being fair in my assessment with no preconceived notions nor generalizations to or from any other player that looks like him. I can understand the Modric comparisons but he's not quite that type of central-to-everything type of MFer. With no comparison to style he's more Iniesta than Xavi. He may have that in his locker or may develop it from here but he's not displayed it thus far.
For me it wasn't the initial use of the term 'beast' in this thread that was a problem. It was the response to @punkisback point that was unsavory. Which I think was the point @muppetman was making in his post.
Consider Liverpool's banner of Origi or Silva's Mendy post. I'd listen to your personal view there with great interest and form my own opinion based on what you feel. But in this particular case, yours or anyone else's race is completely irrelevant IMO. There was no characterisation made on race. A black person turned it into a discussion about race.
And I can, for the life of me I can, understand why this has happened. In a society filled with subconscious racism (which is the worst kind as it usually comes from educated individuals), there should be rigid scrutiny of terminology and lexicology used. But we shouldn't be hunting for discrimination in used terms. Someone who hears someone describe a magnificent technical footballer like Ndombele with the word beast, and thinks of his colour, is the person who in his own subconscious is thinking of the player's colour! That's my point.
Hence why I said if this term was used in the Sissoko thread to a similar reaction, I'd perhaps understand any potential grievances, as Sissoko's main attribute happens to be his physical prowess. Not because he's black, but because he's a strong fucker!
I sincerely hope you can understand what I mean. I really do. I'm not sweeping racism or subconscious racism under any carpets here. I'm saying that we shouldn't look for it where it doesn't exist, as that's perhaps discriminatory in itself.