Player Watch: Tanguy Ndombele

dimiSpur

There's always next year...
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
5,131
I think you've mischaracterized his point. What I perceive him to be saying is that a POC (somewhat incidental) raised an issue that he may perhaps have a heightened sensitivity for and it seems to have been objected to rather defensively and dismissively. The use of the term 'beast' is often quite fair in terms of sport but when utilized for a POC it is often to the implied exclusion of more intellectual traits. And in the matter of Ndombele his most outstanding qualities are those of the more intellectual variety eg quickness of thought, understanding of space/time/angle, decision making, etc. But he does bring the physicals too.

I feel that 'beast' necessarily focuses on the physical. It is rare that a player is called a beast for their intellectual qualities, no? I can imagine a Pirlo having 'beasted' a game with 2 assists, a tsunami of brilliant passes, and a FK goal but it would be a rare. Now imagine a female doctoral graduate of Oxford and the first descriptor anyone in this forum can come up with is related to her looks. It's diminishing.

That said, the utilization of the term is part of the lexicon of sports and in the case of Ndom I'm not sure I have too much of a problem with it personally because he can 'beast' a game. And just to add to the tumult he can be lazy fekker too. Yeah, I said it and I've watched most of his top flight games and, incidentally, also happen to be black. But I know I'm being fair in my assessment with no preconceived notions nor generalizations to or from any other player that looks like him. I can understand the Modric comparisons but he's not quite that type of central-to-everything type of MFer. With no comparison to style he's more Iniesta than Xavi. He may have that in his locker or may develop it from here but he's not displayed it thus far.

For me it wasn't the initial use of the term 'beast' in this thread that was a problem. It was the response to @punkisback point that was unsavory. Which I think was the point @muppetman was making in his post.
I understand what you mean, but I still disagree mate. You make the same point as the original poster in essence. You are saying that the term beast is fair in sports, but when used to describe a black player "it is often to the implied exclusion of more intellectual traits". Whilst there are occasions where this may be true, especially in Ndombele's case, it couldn't be further from the truth. Everyone I think is in agreement that Ndombele's main attributes are his intellect and his technique. So why would "beast" be an issue? It isn't, plainly. As another poster mentioned, your race is irrelevant in the context of this argument. No one has made a characterisation of Ndombele based on the colour of his skin. If they had, then your personal point of view wouldn't only be relevant, it would be crucial.

Consider Liverpool's banner of Origi or Silva's Mendy post. I'd listen to your personal view there with great interest and form my own opinion based on what you feel. But in this particular case, yours or anyone else's race is completely irrelevant IMO. There was no characterisation made on race. A black person turned it into a discussion about race.

And I can, for the life of me I can, understand why this has happened. In a society filled with subconscious racism (which is the worst kind as it usually comes from educated individuals), there should be rigid scrutiny of terminology and lexicology used. But we shouldn't be hunting for discrimination in used terms. Someone who hears someone describe a magnificent technical footballer like Ndombele with the word beast, and thinks of his colour, is the person who in his own subconscious is thinking of the player's colour! That's my point.

Hence why I said if this term was used in the Sissoko thread to a similar reaction, I'd perhaps understand any potential grievances, as Sissoko's main attribute happens to be his physical prowess. Not because he's black, but because he's a strong fucker!

I sincerely hope you can understand what I mean. I really do. I'm not sweeping racism or subconscious racism under any carpets here. I'm saying that we shouldn't look for it where it doesn't exist, as that's perhaps discriminatory in itself.
 
Last edited:

easley91

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2011
Messages
7,749
I had no idea one line, which I genuinely thought was perfectly fine, would lead to such a discussion. Apologies for having this thread derailed. Once again I understand there is an underlying issue, but it was NEVER my intention or thought to link the term to his skin colour. It was merely his physical attributes, which in my mind are up there with the strongest of athletes no matter their skin colour.

It is an important issue, and an important discussion, but perhaps better in another thread?
 

SugarRay

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2011
Messages
7,308
I had no idea one line, which I genuinely thought was perfectly fine, would lead to such a discussion. Apologies for having this thread derailed. Once again I understand there is an underlying issue, but it was NEVER my intention or thought to link the term to his skin colour. It was merely his physical attributes, which in my mind are up there with the strongest of athletes no matter their skin colour.

It is an important issue, and an important discussion, but perhaps better in another thread?
Better still, those who wish to continue that discussion, perhaps private messaging is the way to go?

Tanguy is a legend in the making👍
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
27,558
I had no idea one line, which I genuinely thought was perfectly fine, would lead to such a discussion. Apologies for having this thread derailed. Once again I understand there is an underlying issue, but it was NEVER my intention or thought to link the term to his skin colour. It was merely his physical attributes, which in my mind are up there with the strongest of athletes no matter their skin colour.

It is an important issue, and an important discussion, but perhaps better in another thread?
Wouldn't worry, I feel you've opened up a discussion we're all benefitting and learning from, at least it's raised some awareness to a subject we wouldn't normally talk about.
 
Last edited:

Dougal

Staff
Staff
Joined
Jun 4, 2004
Messages
53,553
When you’re close to buying a player and you watch the best bits YouTube link, you may sometimes be disappointed that it’s been cleverly edited over a 5 year period. NDombele plays like he’s creating a new YouTube video of himself every game.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
16,445
When you’re close to buying a player and you watch the best bits YouTube link, you may sometimes be disappointed that it’s been cleverly edited over a 5 year period. NDombele plays like he’s creating a new YouTube video of himself every game.
Agree, he really need to give up his dream as online video editor and start concentrating on his football.
 

Ronwol196061

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2018
Messages
2,111
When you’re close to buying a player and you watch the best bits YouTube link, you may sometimes be disappointed that it’s been cleverly edited over a 5 year period. NDombele plays like he’s creating a new YouTube video of himself every game.
The funny thing is when I watched the You Tube of Ndombele before we bought him,I knew he was fantastic. Of course when he played for us the first time I cringed at the fact maybe he wasn't really like that,but his videos were right on to the way he really is. His control,seeing of space,seeing of where others are,his instincts,all that you can see in those videos. Some players you can see,but you cant miss his unique talents in the videos
 

daryl hannah

Berry Berry Calm
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
1,580
The funny thing is when I watched the You Tube of Ndombele before we bought him,I knew he was fantastic. Of course when he played for us the first time I cringed at the fact maybe he wasn't really like that,but his videos were right on to the way he really is. His control,seeing of space,seeing of where others are,his instincts,all that you can see in those videos. Some players you can see,but you cant miss his unique talents in the videos
I'd add to that speed of thought, vision, and accuracy. It's ridiculous, really. Superhuman, even.
 

Ronwol196061

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2018
Messages
2,111
I'd add to that speed of thought, vision, and accuracy. It's ridiculous, really. Superhuman, even.
...and Il add to that the fact is he has supreme confidence (albeit with humility) and that is something I always saw in Dave Mackay. All the other players looked to Mackay for that and it raised the level of belief in the whole team.
This happens rarely
 

Seafordian Spurs

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2013
Messages
1,065
Difficult times but a team with this man, LoCelso, the Sessinator, Kane, Son, Deli... Can surely achieve something great sooner rather than never

X
 

Ronwol196061

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2018
Messages
2,111
I was never a fan of Eriksen. This jaunting around the field,short passes back,front and sides and prodding for space was one way of getting it.
I felt on the counter space opened up quickly but generally when we moved the ball up,Eriksen would go to the ball carrier and do something simple,pick it up again and when something opened up he made something happen. I didn't enjoy this footie,it always seemed more technical that creative and yet most called Eriksen creative. I never thought he was that creative. Creative is what I see with Ndombele. I see it with David Silva in a different way but he always looks for a key pass like Ndombele does although in a different way as ND's passes are longer usually because of his field position. But Eriksen just kept prodding.
I much prefer to see ND's dynamism than Eriksens control of the ball
 

easley91

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2011
Messages
7,749
Difficult times but a team with this man, LoCelso, the Sessinator, Kane, Son, Deli... Can surely achieve something great sooner rather than never

X
This just reminds me of the Ross-a-tron nickname from Friends, which was awful itself. Let's not use this, eh?
 

punkisback

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2004
Messages
2,309
@punkisback I don'd mind receiving neg reps but disliking a silly inoffensive joke is a bit pathetic.
Several people have spammed or doh'd me for my original post, I accept the rating system for what it is. I was actually attempting to shed some light into my thoughts on subconscious prejudice in sports without attempting to cause offence or upset. I wasn't expecting ridicule for what was a heartfelt insight into this; but I accept that it's the internet some people will find it funny or feel that my view is something that can be laughed downed due to their own perceptions of it lacking value or weight.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
16,445
Several people have spammed or doh'd me for my original post, I accept the rating system for what it is. I was actually attempting to shed some light into my thoughts on subconscious prejudice in sports without attempting to cause offence or upset. I wasn't expecting ridicule for what was a heartfelt insight into this; but I accept that it's the internet some people will find it funny or feel that my view is something that can be laughed downed due to their own perceptions of it lacking value or weight.
I appreciate that and started a thread to discuss use of language.

But negging a post making a silly joke about comparing black players to futuristic robots from 80s films is a bit weak. There is no stereotype about black people being robots to my knowledge so I just feel you are off base here.
 
Top