Player Watch - Tanguy Ndombele

[Gbspurs]

I'm not accusing you of anything; but i think we should really be careful about the adjectives we use to describe our players:

Senegal showed how ridiculous the ‘pace and power’ stereotype of black soccer players really is

www.sbnation.com

Paul Pogba’s ‘pace and power’ stresses need for rethink over BAME coverage | Sachin Nakrani

Language used to describe Frenchman’s revival highlights importance of the debate sparked by Raheem Sterling’s Instagram post

www.theguardian.com

I'm pretty sure we used to refer to Bale going into "beast mode" pretty often.

 

[stevenurse]

Boy, that escalated quickly

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Lot more to come from Ndombele. Outstanding in CL last season against City and Barca.
Sometimes a bit too flash but we can put up with that.

 

[Shadydan]

Ndombele deserves to be looked at as the same sort of player as Modric.

 

[Ronwol196061]

Dave Mackay was my favourite all time player. It wasnt just his ability which was great (the best tackler,great shots etc). It was his great confidence and with Dave it always felt we couldn fail. I see that potential with NDombele. I feel with NDombele he knows exactly what he wants to do with the ball,he isn't looking for the way through,he knows the way through,he sees the space and he is going for it,he sees his teammates and where they are and the space in front of them. Its what Ive been waiting for,both the confidence and a creative player that can really see space.
Dave was inspiring both to the fans and especially to his teammates. Ndombele I feel is on that road.
Watching Lo Celso as well yesterday,he is a very positive player with great energy. I think Ndombele with create creat partnerships with him,Kane,Son and Dele etc

 

[Japhet]

He seems to be Dembele but with the ability to pass the ball and score goals.

I'd say Dembele with a speed of thought and execution that Moussa never really had. I'd also say Moussa was better defensively, but it's early days.

 

[dimiSpur]

I'm not accusing you of anything; but i think we should really be careful about the adjectives we use to describe our players:

Senegal showed how ridiculous the ‘pace and power’ stereotype of black soccer players really is

www.sbnation.com

Paul Pogba’s ‘pace and power’ stresses need for rethink over BAME coverage | Sachin Nakrani

Language used to describe Frenchman’s revival highlights importance of the debate sparked by Raheem Sterling’s Instagram post

www.theguardian.com

Surely you hearing the word "beast" and thinking of his colour is closer to being racist than the post you quoted?

You're being ridiculous. The guy said he's a beast. And he is a beast. A beast of a footballer. He has everything in his locker. I really cannot believe your post, it is infuriating.

 

[punkisback]

Surely you hearing the word "beast" and thinking of his colour is closer to being racist than the post you quoted?

You're being ridiculous. The guy said he's a beast. And he is a beast. A beast of a footballer. He has everything in his locker. I really cannot believe your post, it is infuriating.

I'm not saying anyone is Racist, but read those links i've put and you can see my point; a lot of it is reducing black players to their physical attributes. I'm talking from the position of actually being a man of colour.

 

[punkisback]

Do a search on the word Beast being used on this forum. I think you'll find many players have been called it that don't suit the narrative being spouted. A quick search showed me plenty. Haaland, Kane, Ronaldo, Alderweireld, Gazzaniga, I even saw a poster claim Hazard is a beast so please don't post such utter rubbish when the word is used in endearing form

Most of the searches I have seen refer to players of colour; Sissoko; Dembele; Tanguy; Rose; Aurier etc.

 

[dimiSpur]

I've never seen or read the above players described as a beast on this forum. All three are physical athletes and all bigger than Tanguy, but i have never seen them used to describe them.

Gazzaniga thread, someone called him a sexy beast - https://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/in...vs-tottenham-match-thread.140406/post-6561152

Kane said to be in beast mode here - https://spurscommunity.co.uk/index....stle-match-thread.137683/page-70#post-6484784

Winks being described as a beast here -

Match Threads - Arsenal vs Spurs - Match Thread

Does anyone else feel like Poch looks a little rattled despite what he says

spurscommunity.co.uk

You hearing the word beast and thinking of a player's colour is derogatory.

 

[dimiSpur]

I'm not saying anyone is Racist, but read those links i've put and you can see my point; a lot of it is reducing black players to their physical attributes. I'm talking from the position of actually being a man of colour.

Your race is irrelevant. That does not give you the right to decide what someone meant with their post. We use the term "beast" or "beast mode" in every day life. No one said he's a beast because he has great physical attributes. Everyone here is wanking over his passing and technical ability. It's farcical that we're even having this conversation.

 

[ToDarrenIsToDo]

Most of the searches I have seen refer to players of colour; Sissoko; Dembele; Tanguy; Rose; Aurier etc.

And do none of your searches also show the word beast being used for the likes of Alderweireld, Gazzaniga, Kane, Ronaldo, Haaland, Hazard, Bale? Come on now mate stop pushing this beast malarkey and admit your search also showed white players being referred to one as well.

You know, I know and everyone on this forum knows it's not said the way you're saying it can be so stop pushing nonsense will you when there's more important issues in the world to worry about.

A simple yes or no, did your search also show white players names assoricated with the word? It's not a did at Tanguy, Rose, whoever it's a phrase used for all

Edit- this is the last I'm saying anything on the matter.

 

[dimiSpur]

And additionally @punkisback, if a player has terrific physical attributes, what's the problem in pointing them out? Would it be wrong to point out Sissoko's sensational physical prowess, amongst other things? You asking for people to think about the adjectives they use to describe players due to their colour is a form of discrimination in a sense. Why do I have to think "oh, Dier is white I can call him a beast but because Sissoko's black I have to say such and such". That's subconscious racism in a way.

No. They're both footballers. More importantly they're two people. Humans.

 

[punkisback]

And do none of your searches also show the word beast being used for the likes of Alderweireld, Gazzaniga, Kane, Ronaldo, Haaland, Hazard, Bale? Come on now mate stop pushing this beast malarkey and admit your search also showed white players being referred to one as well.

You know, I know and everyone on this forum knows it's not said the way you're saying it can be so stop pushing nonsense will you when there's more important issues in the world to worry about.

A simple yes or no, did your search also show white players names assoricated with the word? It's not a did at Tanguy, Rose, whoever it's a phrase used for all

I'm not saying that; but it has been disproportionately used. I'm not calling anyone anything; i'm just saying that sometimes use of the word perpetuates stereotypes and reduces footballers of colour to their physical attributes. Please read my initial links that I had sent; I agree that no one is using it in a negative fashion.

Your race is irrelevant. That does not give you the right to decide what someone meant with their post. We use the term "beast" or "beast mode" in every day life. No one said he's a beast because he has great physical attributes. Everyone here is wanking over his passing and technical ability. It's farcical that we're even having this conversation.

My race is completely relevant as i have had my characteristics stereotyped and prejudged because of my race/appearance and i know completely how it feels and the effect it can have. If you can't see or understand the value in my personal view and experiences as a person of colour and how it can add weight and credence to my argument then I'm sorry for you. In a perfect world we would all be judged equally, but this world isn't perfect.

 

[freeeki]

Most of the searches I have seen refer to players of colour; Sissoko; Dembele; Tanguy; Rose; Aurier etc.

We have 25 players in our first-team squad, of whom 12 are BAME.

That's essentially half our squad. Which is why I imagine you'll find a lot of references to them.

Stop seeking oppression and grievance where none exists.

Nobody wants you fighting their battles for them, especially when it's one you've purposely sought out and engineered to make yourself appear woke and/or victimised on the internet.

 

[easley91]

I'm not accusing you of anything; but i think we should really be careful about the adjectives we use to describe our players:

Senegal showed how ridiculous the ‘pace and power’ stereotype of black soccer players really is

www.sbnation.com

Paul Pogba’s ‘pace and power’ stresses need for rethink over BAME coverage | Sachin Nakrani

Language used to describe Frenchman’s revival highlights importance of the debate sparked by Raheem Sterling’s Instagram post

www.theguardian.com

Took me all morning to find a way of saying it, but seems in the mean time others have said it for me. Nothing racist or stereotypical about how I used the term.

Any how here is what I had prepared in response:

There is nothing to do with race/skin colour in my use of the word 'beast'. I've described white athletes the same (not directly on here) - Brock Lesnar, Braun Strowman, Tyson Fury, Cesaro, Cristiano Ronaldo etc. to name but a few. It's a simplifying way for me of saying they're big, strong, powerful and can do things in their relative sport/field not many others can. Lesnar's nickname is "The Beast" for starters.

 

[teedee]

I'm not saying anyone is Racist, but read those links i've put and you can see my point; a lot of it is reducing black players to their physical attributes. I'm talking from the position of actually being a man of colour.

I have also heard Souness and other pundits refer to Pogba and other black payers as being very skilful. What they are in fact suggesting, is that certain players, black or otherwise, not only have tremendous reserves of pace and power, but also great skill, making them into superb all round footballers. Other players, black or otherwise, simply do not have all these tools in their lockers.

 

[dimiSpur]

I'm not saying that; but it has been disproportionately used. I'm not calling anyone anything; i'm just saying that sometimes use of the word perpetuates stereotypes and reduces footballers of colour to their physical attributes. Please read my initial links that I had sent; I agree that no one is using it in a negative fashion.



My race is completely relevant as i have had my characteristics stereotyped and prejudged because of my race/appearance and i know completely how it feels and the effect it can have. If you can't see or understand the value in my personal view and experiences as a person of colour and how it can add weight and credence to my argument then I'm sorry for you. In a perfect world we would all be judged equally, but this world isn't perfect.

I'm sorry, but whilst I agree this is a shitty world wherein there is so much racism still in existence, that does not give anyone the right to go around pointing fingers at people that have said nothing wrong, merely because some other person has racially discriminated you in an entirely different context and meaning in the past. We are not discussing the world's imperfections, or whether you have or have not been subjected to any discrimination in the past. We are discussing whether saying a player is a beast is something we shouldn't say. Especially in Ndombele's case, there's no subliminal racial goings on. We are talking about perhaps our most technically gifted footballer. If this was the Sissoko thread I'd maybe understand what you mean.

When people believe too much in Jesus, they start seeing him in their toast. This is a similar situation. When one goes around thinking all people think of a player's colour in a derogatory manner, you end up moaning that calling a player a beast in a way meaning excellence is racist.

 

[Danny1]

The new beast of White Hart Lane.


That is all.

Indeed! We are a team of big beasts now, with Dier, Kane, Gazza, Sanchez, Foyth, Sessegnon & Sissoko we are a big strong side which I love! Must be intimidating coming up against a team of players who are all so physically built and difficult to play against. Add that to the likes of Sonny, Lo Celso & Davis who aren't small guys either!

 

[Shadydan]

Racism is just as prevalent today as it was 30 years ago

morningstaronline.co.uk