Player Watch Player Watch: Ryan Sessegnon

[SpartanSpur]

We hesitated on Barkley - now an England regular

We tracked Maddison for years - now a PL star and worth £60m+

We dragged out Grealish all last summer and failed - best player in the Championship last season, now worth £50m+

We tracked Aarons - Championship team of the year and new contract

You can add Brooks and Dan James to this list too.

Not a dud in the lot of them. Maybe we should follow through for once? I hope we get him (provided Fulham reduce their price).

 

[phil]

Get him on a pre contract in Jan, and give Fulham nothing. Keep Danny Rose for next season and buy Lo Celso/resolve Eriksens long term future - I would be very happy with that.

That only applies to a foreign club. We would not be allowed to get him to sign a pre-contract. Also, as many have already commented, it would not be a free transfer. The fee would be determined by tribunal.

 

[vegassd]

We hesitated on Barkley - now an England regular

We tracked Maddison for years - now a PL star and worth £60m+

We dragged out Grealish all last summer and failed - best player in the Championship last season, now worth £50m+

We tracked Aarons - Championship team of the year and new contract

You can add Brooks and Dan James to this list too.

Not a dud in the lot of them. Maybe we should follow through for once? I hope we get him (provided Fulham reduce their price).

So what you're saying is that there are some good footballers out there who play for other teams. Great observation.

There are two things at work here; firstly we have a cap on the number of players we can have (both financially and according to competition rules) and secondly none of us really know the full context of the deals/interest we hear about.

It's the easiest thing in the world to judge players after the fact. You picked a list of 6 young players who have been pretty good - with Maddison being the standout - but don't mention any of the players who have been relative failures. Just because a club "follows through" and signs a young player that's no guarantee that the player becomes a success for that club. Life is far too complicated for that.

You say you want us to "follow through" and sign Ryan but only if Fulham reduce their price. So what does that mean? You are criticising the club for not signing him whilst also saying you wouldn't sign him yourself given the current price! It's crazy!

There is time left in this transfer window so let's not get our drawers in a spin about RS or any other player just yet.

PS. Barkley has made half the number of England starts that Alli has despite making his debut 2 years earlier. Dier has made 30 starts (28 full games) in that same 2 year shorter period. Trippier made more starts than Barkley in a 15-month period compared to Barkley's 6 years. So I would hardly call Barkley an "England regular" and I find it odd that you bring that up whilst ignoring the signings we did make.

 

[SpartanSpur]

So what you're saying is that there are some good footballers out there who play for other teams. Great observation.

There are two things at work here; firstly we have a cap on the number of players we can have (both financially and according to competition rules) and secondly none of us really know the full context of the deals/interest we hear about.

It's the easiest thing in the world to judge players after the fact. You picked a list of 6 young players who have been pretty good - with Maddison being the standout - but don't mention any of the players who have been relative failures. Just because a club "follows through" and signs a young player that's no guarantee that the player becomes a success for that club. Life is far too complicated for that.

You say you want us to "follow through" and sign Ryan but only if Fulham reduce their price. So what does that mean? You are criticising the club for not signing him whilst also saying you wouldn't sign him yourself given the current price! It's crazy!

There is time left in this transfer window so let's not get our drawers in a spin about RS or any other player just yet.

PS. Barkley has made half the number of England starts that Alli has despite making his debut 2 years earlier. Dier has made 30 starts (28 full games) in that same 2 year shorter period. Trippier made more starts than Barkley in a 15-month period compared to Barkley's 6 years. So I would hardly call Barkley an "England regular" and I find it odd that you bring that up whilst ignoring the signings we did make.

Woah dude, chill.

I can add Maguire off the top of my head if you'd like too? I don't count Sancho as City flat out refused to deal. I can't think of many HG players we've been heavily linked with in recent years that have flopped aside from Berahino. I'd be happy for you to enlighten me otherwise.

On the squad space issue we have had openings for home grown players for years now, so that doesn't work.

I think my post is relevant as Grealish and Barkley were huge sagas, similar to Sessegnon now, and personally I'd love to have either in our squad (Grealish more so). For those two players the fees were more than acceptable, think Barkley was £15-20m and Grealish more like £20-25m. We hesitated/refused to pay the price and missed out. There was a LOT of ITK on Maddison over the years too, we could easily have got him if we really went for it, he was only £20m. TBH that post was as much born from disappointment over Grealish than anything.

I accept adding the bit about not valuing him at £40m undermined my post, but for me the main point was that I hope with Sessegnon we finally get one through the door. Our scouting of the championship is working, we just need to find a way of actually getting these guys in. There seems to be a suggestion going around that if Rose stays we'll walk away from a deal this summer and try again in Jan/next summer. I'd be against that as we may end up missing out again. If we walk away from £40m, fair enough, if we walk away from £20-25m because Rose stays I'll be gutted.

Oh and Barkley played over 100 minutes more than Dele in our Nations League campaign, with 4 starts against Dele's 2. He had the most minutes of any England CM in the tournament. Barkley didn't make the 2018 World Cup squad. I think that qualifies as 'going on to be an England regular'.

 

[rabbikeane]

We hesitated on Barkley - now an England regular

We tracked Maddison for years - now a PL star and worth £60m+

We dragged out Grealish all last summer and failed - best player in the Championship last season, now worth £50m+

We tracked Aarons - Championship team of the year and new contract

You can add Brooks and Dan James to this list too.

Not a dud in the lot of them. Maybe we should follow through for once? I hope we get him (provided Fulham reduce their price).

Dare I say none of them good enough for us?
Barkley would not take us where we want to be, but he'd probably be just good enough for us to not go for Ndombele.

 

[SpartanSpur]

Dare I say none of them good enough for us?
Barkley would not take us where we want to be, but he'd probably be just good enough for us to not go for Ndombele.

To start? maybe not. To be quality squad options? 100% IMO.

£20-25m bracket is the going rate for a HG squad option now.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

To start? maybe not. To be quality squad options? 100% IMO.

£20-25m bracket is the going rate for a HG squad option now.

Brooks didn't want to sit on our bench though - can't force players to be squad options if they see themselves as starters - kinda throws your point out the window in some respects with some of the players you listed. It can't be both, can it?

 

[SpartanSpur]

Brooks didn't want to sit on our bench though - can't force players to be squad options if they see themselves as starters - kinda throws your point out the window in some respects with some of the players you listed. It can't be both, can it?

My main point - admittedly poorly communicated - is that our scouting of the championship/HG talent is working, but we aren't going through with it. I don't want to miss out on another one.

Maddison/Brooks may have not wanted to sit on our bench, but had we made an offer to buy and loan them out they may have considered it. To be fair we did that with Clarke so we are thinking about changing things at least.

Barkley, Grealish and Sessegnon were certainly very keen to play for us. We struck out on two, I'm hoping it's third time lucky.

 

[S17PUR]

Woah dude, chill.

I can add Maguire off the top of my head if you'd like too? I don't count Sancho as City flat out refused to deal. I can't think of many HG players we've been heavily linked with in recent years that have flopped aside from Berahino. I'd be happy for you to enlighten me otherwise.

On the squad space issue we have had openings for home grown players for years now, so that doesn't work.

I think my post is relevant as Grealish and Barkley were huge sagas, similar to Sessegnon now, and personally I'd love to have either in our squad (Grealish more so). For those two players the fees were more than acceptable, think Barkley was £15-20m and Grealish more like £20-25m. We hesitated/refused to pay the price and missed out. There was a LOT of ITK on Maddison over the years too, we could easily have got him if we really went for it, he was only £20m. TBH that post was as much born from disappointment over Grealish than anything.

I accept adding the bit about not valuing him at £40m undermined my post, but for me the main point was that I hope with Sessegnon we finally get one through the door. Our scouting of the championship is working, we just need to find a way of actually getting these guys in. There seems to be a suggestion going around that if Rose stays we'll walk away from a deal this summer and try again in Jan/next summer. I'd be against that as we may end up missing out again. If we walk away from £40m, fair enough, if we walk away from £20-25m because Rose stays I'll be gutted.

Oh and Barkley played over 100 minutes more than Dele in our Nations League campaign, with 4 starts against Dele's 2. He had the most minutes of any England CM in the tournament. Barkley didn't make the 2018 World Cup squad. I think that qualifies as 'going on to be an England regular'.

This is spot on. If we're really wanting to wait it out to get Sessegnon next year then we should be negotiating a transfer with a loan back to Fulham. I remember we were all but nailed on to get Barkley and by waiting until January we let Chelsea slip in the back door (giggity). Ideally we'd bring him in now of course and not loan him back at all.

 

[StanSpur]

I still see this happening. Fulham will get to the last day of the window and then have the choice of £20m or nothing. They will take the cash.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

My main point - admittedly poorly communicated - is that our scouting of the championship/HG talent is working, but we aren't going through with it. I don't want to miss out on another one.

Maddison/Brooks may have not wanted to sit on our bench, but had we made an offer to buy and loan them out they may have considered it. To be fair we did that with Clarke so we are thinking about changing things at least.

Barkley, Grealish and Sessegnon were certainly very keen to play for us. We struck out on two, I'm hoping it's third time lucky.

Grealish was happy to sign a new contract too.

Understand the point you are trying to make though.

Whatever the weather, Sess, as it stands, isn't worth the purported numbers +player, guess we'll see who wants it more.

 

[vegassd]

I think my post is relevant as Grealish and Barkley were huge sagas, similar to Sessegnon now, and personally I'd love to have either in our squad (Grealish more so). For those two players the fees were more than acceptable, think Barkley was £15-20m and Grealish more like £20-25m. We hesitated/refused to pay the price and missed out. There was a LOT of ITK on Maddison over the years too, we could easily have got him if we really went for it, he was only £20m. TBH that post was as much born from disappointment over Grealish than anything.

And this is where the whole thing falls down. Why were they sagas? What do you think was happening at the clubs in question? Do you think the parties involved were groaning under the levels of drama or do you think the whole "saga" thing is just something reported by mainstream media because it sounds good?

I don't mean to single you out btw, this is more of my reaction to weeks of people on here flapping. So many will hang on every word of ITK as if it were gospel and then string out their own stories of what is happening behind the scenes to fill in the blanks. It starts off as amusing and ends up with some bizarre leaps of logic!

We have to accept that we aren't going to sign all of the players all of the time. We have to accept that some of those that we don't sign will become really good players. We have to realise that signing the likes of Barkley may prevent the later signing of someone like Maddison/Ndombele. It's all far too intricate to try and draw conclusions about what constitutes "missing out" in my opinion.

It would be great if we were better off financially and be able to be more aggressive with these types of transfer and hopefully a full season in our new home will push us along that track. But that doesn't mean we should be splurging money at the first player we see. If we see a player like Sess (who I personally think is great) we can pursue it but shouldn't feel like it's all or nothing. There are plenty of players out there who surprise us all the time.

 

[SpartanSpur]

And this is where the whole thing falls down. Why were they sagas? What do you think was happening at the clubs in question? Do you think the parties involved were groaning under the levels of drama or do you think the whole "saga" thing is just something reported by mainstream media because it sounds good?

I don't mean to single you out btw, this is more of my reaction to weeks of people on here flapping. So many will hang on every word of ITK as if it were gospel and then string out their own stories of what is happening behind the scenes to fill in the blanks. It starts off as amusing and ends up with some bizarre leaps of logic!

We have to accept that we aren't going to sign all of the players all of the time. We have to accept that some of those that we don't sign will become really good players. We have to realise that signing the likes of Barkley may prevent the later signing of someone like Maddison/Ndombele. It's all far too intricate to try and draw conclusions about what constitutes "missing out" in my opinion.

It would be great if we were better off financially and be able to be more aggressive with these types of transfer and hopefully a full season in our new home will push us along that track. But that doesn't mean we should be splurging money at the first player we see. If we see a player like Sess (who I personally think is great) we can pursue it but shouldn't feel like it's all or nothing. There are plenty of players out there who surprise us all the time.

Totally get where you are coming from. It wasn't even really an attack on the club to be honest, just frustration that we've not been able to capitalise on some quality HG options when it's an area we are still struggling with.

I do think Barkley and Grealish qualify as sagas though. Both were all over the press all summer and there was plenty of ITK (from Trix especially who I believe knows their agents). Both were still on until the final days. Grealish basically said his goodbyes, and I'm pretty sure has confirmed it was close publicly. Barkley was at Chelsea on deadline day but the deal was called off, potentially due to our interest (although I'm not sure if I believe that one).

I can't wait for this window to close to be honest, I just hope we are happy with the end result.

 

[bbunc]

I still see this happening. Fulham will get to the last day of the window and then have the choice of £20m or nothing. They will take the cash.

Nope. They will take nothing. Teams do not have to sell anymore and we still have not figured that out. For Fulham, it’s probably worth risking the xfer fee if it’s 20M to try to get promoted again, and they think having Sess makes that more likely.

We will have spent 3 months (and it’s really more like 24 months) going after a player where we are 20M apart on price with no alternative, all on the belief that for some magical reason, Fulham will wake up on deadline day and decide to lower their price by half, when it would be too late for them to use the proceeds anyway.

Just don’t see any way this one gets done.

 

[dfree]

I get the Lo Celso ire as around 60m is ultimately a reasonable price with the 20% sell on etc. Fulham asking for the same price for Sessegnon as they did last season despite him entering last year or his contract, not having a brilliant season in the Prem and them getting less than 500k in compensation if he leaves on a free to Europe next summer is just utterly ridiculous and I don't blame Levy at all for not paying up.

 

[SSC]

We hesitated on Barkley - now an England regular

We tracked Maddison for years - now a PL star and worth £60m+

We dragged out Grealish all last summer and failed - best player in the Championship last season, now worth £50m+

We tracked Aarons - Championship team of the year and new contract

You can add Brooks and Dan James to this list too.

Not a dud in the lot of them. Maybe we should follow through for once? I hope we get him (provided Fulham reduce their price).

This is all well and good but how many of them get in our first XI? Itk has been clear Poch only wants game changers, the premium you pay for English potential is massive so purchases have to be calculated.

 

[king_yid]

The more I see the price rise the more I think we can leave this one till Jan or next summer.

Maybe we can strengthen elsewhere.

 

[Spurs Lodge Kittens]

The only danger in those wanting to wait until Jan to do a deal is once the football gets underway in mid-August, Setpember and he's playing and the Spurs interest kind of stalls/slows down after the summer frenzy, the Fulham heirachy can be in his ear every day trying to convince him to extend his deal.

Ideally, we need to strike while the iron is hot and Sess is set on us.

 

[Johnny J]

Nope. They will take nothing. Teams do not have to sell anymore and we still have not figured that out. For Fulham, it’s probably worth risking the xfer fee if it’s 20M to try to get promoted again, and they think having Sess makes that more likely.

We will have spent 3 months (and it’s really more like 24 months) going after a player where we are 20M apart on price with no alternative, all on the belief that for some magical reason, Fulham will wake up on deadline day and decide to lower their price by half, when it would be too late for them to use the proceeds anyway.

Just don’t see any way this one gets done.

Yep, RS is proven as an elite player in the championship. He's easily worth £20m to them for one season. If he helps to get them promoted he'll have earned them multiple times that amount.

 

[joelstinton14]

We hesitated on Barkley - now an England regular

We tracked Maddison for years - now a PL star and worth £60m+

We dragged out Grealish all last summer and failed - best player in the Championship last season, now worth £50m+

We tracked Aarons - Championship team of the year and new contract

You can add Brooks and Dan James to this list too.

Not a dud in the lot of them. Maybe we should follow through for once? I hope we get him (provided Fulham reduce their price).

To be fair it’s not like we haven’t been buying those calibre of players. We have brought in Sanchez, Foyth and Clarke in recent windows, all very promising youngsters.

There are a whole variety of reasons why we don’t bring a player in, sometimes we decide not to, sometimes transfers break down or they don’t want to join us. Barkley to be fair if he didn’t do his hammy in I thing would have been a spurs player eventually, and it seems like we had major concerns over Maddison’s attitude