Player watch: Oliver Skipp

wrd

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Awesome that he was given the opportunity to start and get good 75 minutes, huge for his development

However if I judge players performances equally at this level id say he didn't have a great game, he had an okay game. I felt he didnt offer himself enough and was hiding and there were three occasions where he dribbled himself into danger. He'll learn a lot from this game and honestly he had look no further than winks to learn how to constantly move and make yourself available for your teammates.

Really happy for him though, gives us another option and I hope he's gonna get a few more chances.
 

Primativ

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I thought he looked very promising actually. He looks to be quite progressive with his passing, I think when he gains in confidence he will show he has more forward passes in his locker. There was one great forward pass he slipped through for Lamela which showed he has vision and execution in his passes.

He was bypassed quite a lot by his teammates, but he's only 18. I think he looks to be more of a box to box player than Winks is, a bit more all action type of CM.
 

C0YS

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Firstly, he is clearly ready, he did run into trouble a few times early but after that was very assured. Used the ball effectively and moved it quickly. Made a few tackles, one which was particularly good. Very solid. He did not look one bit out of place and that isn't actually that common. Did well though fairly untested.

Tidy but not outstanding. Wanted the ball which was a positive, but didn’t create any real danger or openings with it though.
Of course he didn't, its not his job. Skipp played a holding roll today and he did it well. If anything he tried to overcomplicate things a few times, when a simple pass would of sufficed. I'm very happy with his performance, it was very mature. Did not like like an 18 year old at all.
 

newbie

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Ready to start games in the premier league. I've said several times now I'm not slating the kid as he's just 18. Just talking more towards the supporters who ask him to start games all the time and that we don't need to replace Dembele cause we have Skipp.

Thats all I'm saying.
His 18 chill out, no expects him to replace anyone just yet, but if he can be a good squad player and work up experience over the next couple of seasons and in time he will hopefully be a main stay. His got huge potential and I would rather he got game time than we over spent in a foreign squad player. We need less Jansens, Nakoodous and Nije more Oliver skips!
 

coys200

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I will say as well that he didn’t look anywhere near as good as I have seen him. I’d guess the nerves sapped a lot of his energy. He’s normally full of bounce and energy and he just looked a little subdued which I’m putting down to the whole occasion. Still he acquitted himself just fine and could be handy coming in last 20 minutes in games to rest others.
 

ClintEastwould

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He did ok. The majority of it was pretty safe passes. The one thing I did notice was a bit of a reluctance from our CB to give him the ball which I guess you can understand. This can be seen in that he only made 54 passes. When Dier or winks play there in a home game it’s about 80 or 90. This meant in 1st half we were going long a lot. This totally changed when eriksen came on. Sissoko pushed up and eriksen took control of CM. Therefore I’m not really sure how to judge him as they basically by passed him a lot. It was a competent performance though and I’ll stick to what I’ve previously said about him that I’m 50/50 if he will make it with us.
It was very clear they were reluctant to pass to him, particularly in the first half.
 

C0YS

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He did ok. The majority of it was pretty safe passes. The one thing I did notice was a bit of a reluctance from our CB to give him the ball which I guess you can understand. This can be seen in that he only made 54 passes. When Dier or winks play there in a home game it’s about 80 or 90. This meant in 1st half we were going long a lot. This totally changed when eriksen came on. Sissoko pushed up and eriksen took control of CM. Therefore I’m not really sure how to judge him as they basically by passed him a lot. It was a competent performance though and I’ll stick to what I’ve previously said about him that I’m 50/50 if he will make it with us.
If Dier makes an average of 80-90 passes a game that would be close to jeorginho level. That doesn't sound right... Wait he actually averages 58 passes a game.

Here is a list of Dier's passes per home game

69 vs Southampton
45 vs Chelsea
31 vs Man city
82 vs Cardiff
50 vs Liverpool
52 vs Fulham


And thats all the home games he played in. So only Cardiff did he get between 80-90, and even then towards the lower level of that.

54 passes is pretty decent for 70mins for a midfielder, and in fact when he left the field no other midfielder on the whole pitch had made more passes. The guy wasn't ignored. Its just part of his role is to drop deep, try to drag burnley players with him, or at least to force them to change shape, to create space in different parts of the pitch. Its not always about being passed to, and normally we use the fullbacks to transition from defense to Midfield, obviously there are exceptions, and times that our DM needs to join the defense as a passer, or need him to use them for triangles, to make more space etc.
 

C0YS

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I will say as well that he didn’t look anywhere near as good as I have seen him. I’d guess the nerves sapped a lot of his energy. He’s normally full of bounce and energy and he just looked a little subdued which I’m putting down to the whole occasion. Still he acquitted himself just fine and could be handy coming in last 20 minutes in games to rest others.
mate I thought he played well. But you're comparing it to youth football, he will play very differently at the top level for sometime, possibly ever. He did his job well, if he does his job equally well in different games then he would be doing very well. Obviously there will be tougher tests than this.

I get annoyed at this obsession with fans judging players based on how they would like to see them play, or how they could play, rather than judging them on the role that they actually do for the team. Dier gets a lot of criticism, by people just not understanding his job. Today Skipp did his job well, and contributed well to our complete control of that game. Solid 7/10, I'm sure he has lots of talents that he couldn't show today, but he didn't need to show them today. He did his job!
 

coys200

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If Dier makes an average of 80-90 passes a game that would be close to jeorginho level. That doesn't sound right... Wait he actually averages 58 passes a game.

Here is a list of Dier's passes per home game

69 vs Southampton
45 vs Chelsea
31 vs Man city
82 vs Cardiff
50 vs Liverpool
52 vs Fulham


And thats all the home games he played in. So only Cardiff did he get between 80-90, and even then towards the lower level of that.

54 passes is pretty decent for 70mins for a midfielder, and in fact when he left the field no other midfielder on the whole pitch had made more passes. The guy wasn't ignored. Its just part of his role is to drop deep, try to drag burnley players with him, or at least to force them to change shape, to create space in different parts of the pitch. Its not always about being passed to, and normally we use the fullbacks to transition from defense to Midfield, obviously there are exceptions, and times that our DM needs to join the defense as a passer, or need him to use them for triangles, to make more space etc.
Tbh I’m talking about the games we dominate like cardiff. Are you sure that Fulham stat is correct ? Im pretty sure Dier and winks are always around 80. Anyways I thought it was obvious especially 1st half that davies and alderweireld just weren’t interested in passing to him. Which is obviously not Skipp fault.
 

C0YS

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Tbh I’m talking about the games we dominate like cardiff. Are you sure that Fulham stat is correct ? Im pretty sure Dier and winks are always around 80. Anyways I thought it was obvious especially 1st half that davies and alderweireld just weren’t interested in passing to him. Which is obviously not Skipp fault.
OK I'll go look at last seasons as well if you want. But 80-90 passes is insanely high average. In games we dominate we tend to make 450-500 passes as an entire team. To get those stats it would mean Dier makes about 1 in every 5 passes for the whole of the team. Considering in most teams CBs have the highest number of passes, that amount essentially means our teams passing and transition is built around Dier, which is plainly false.

On the idea they 'weren't interested in passing to him' I've already covered. namely, DM drops back, CB pass ball in space made by DM dropping back. This can look like the 'CBs are ignoring the midfielder, but truth is the DM is not principally dropping back to be passed to, but to make space further up the field.

We do this all the time, but probably because you were paying a bit more attention of Skipp its likely you noted it as strange, or that they were ignoring him, when happens a lot in the vast majority of games.
 

markiespurs

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Thought he made a decent debut. Not easy playing conditions out there today but thought he settled well after a understandable nervy first 20 minutes.

Always like it when we have a youngster promoted from the youth sides and looking forward to seeing how he develops over the next 2 or 3 seasons.
 

thefierycamel

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Waiting for the touches compilation as I was working during the match and couldn't watch
 

C0YS

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Tbh I’m talking about the games we dominate like cardiff. Are you sure that Fulham stat is correct ? Im pretty sure Dier and winks are always around 80. Anyways I thought it was obvious especially 1st half that davies and alderweireld just weren’t interested in passing to him. Which is obviously not Skipp fault.
Ok last season at home he got an average of 72 passes a match. Pretty high, the 9th highest in the league. The two seasons before though he got 55 passes a match. Much more normal.

Even last season though, he only had four games with more than 80 passes, and only two where he played in Midfield.

116 vs Brighton (at CB,so not really the same..)
104 vs Huddersfield.
83 vs Palace (away and at CB)
82 vs Swansea

So such performances are the exception not the norm.

This season Winks has had only one performance of +80

93 vs Cardiff

Last season he had two.

111 vs APOEL
88 vs Brighton.

So yeh... 80 is high, for anybody actually, even CBs (unless you play for Man city or, this season, Chelsea).
 

ClintEastwould

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OK I'll go look at last seasons as well if you want. But 80-90 passes is insanely high average. In games we dominate we tend to make 450-500 passes as an entire team. To get those stats it would mean Dier makes about 1 in every 5 passes for the whole of the team. Considering in most teams CBs have the highest number of passes, that amount essentially means our teams passing and transition is built around Dier, which is plainly false.

On the idea they 'weren't interested in passing to him' I've already covered. namely, DM drops back, CB pass ball in space made by DM dropping back. This can look like the 'CBs are ignoring the midfielder, but truth is the DM is not principally dropping back to be passed to, but to make space further up the field.

We do this all the time, but probably because you were paying a bit more attention of Skipp its likely you noted it as strange, or that they were ignoring him, when happens a lot in the vast majority of games.
I certainly understand that our DM’s often act as a decoy to make space for the pass further ahead but I’m calling it as I see it and there were multiple occasions where Toby, Davies, Sissoko and Rose all took a look at Skipp in space but opted to take another touch and an alternative option. Not saying he had a bad game but just calling it as I saw it. I suppose (optimistically) that we’re also learning not to throw the weight of responsibility on our youngsters when they get thrown into the deep end. Foyth learned the hard way, as did KWP somewhat. Sissoko dropping back to help and us not giving Skipp the ball every possible occasion in order to capaitalize on his debut was a good move, if this was preemptive that is. Ease them in.
 

Hazelton

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Poch did him no favours with the choice of game to start him in, especially with the weather, but it shows great character and a lot of talent to come in and do well in those conditions. Hope he builds on this.
 

Tottenhamboy85

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Poch did him no favours with the choice of game to start him in, especially with the weather, but it shows great character and a lot of talent to come in and do well in those conditions. Hope he builds on this.
It was the perfect game for him to play in for his first start.

A nice quite run out with not much pressure on him.
 
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