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Player Watch Player Watch - Lucas Moura

dtxspurs

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Dec 28, 2017
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Why is that definitely? His December was good. In fact if you tested your statement scientifically, there probably would be no big significant difference between his first 6 and last 6 weeks of the season so far. The major difference is that Pochettino prefers and has available a different set of attacking players now than at the start of the season, but that doesn't really make Lucas Moura a worse player.
It's all so insanely reactionary... real surprise.
 

HarryKane

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2015
145
894
He started great this season and I thought ok this is the real Moura. But last 6 weeks or so he has definitely gone on a downward curve. Unless he gets back to that early season form I’m not convinced he’s good enough to be our no 1 attacking choice from the bench which he currently is. I made that comment about Shaqiri and mahrez a couple of weeks ago. But unfortunately we every performance at the moment I’m starting to doubt what I said.

In fact I said it a week ago. Been a lot of games lol.
How is this any different to Son? Players go on runs of good-very good form all the time. Son's first goals this season were vs West Ham 31st October after a 19 or 20 game run of not scoring at club level (including the end of last season), and he had 1 assist vs Barcelona before November. Through to the end of November he scored 3 and assisted 2 this season in his first 16 games. In the last 2 weeks Son has scored 6, assisted 5 and since December he has scored 9, assisted 6.

In the last 16 games Lucas has scored 5 assisted 1, including scoring the goal that kept the team in the CL. Lucas has been here for about a year, he will keep improving his chemistry with the team and he will go on a hot streak eventually just like how Son's form will drop significantly again. What is needed is enough quality in the squad that can pick up the slack when others aren't performing to keep winning throughout the entire season, Lucas has shown quality and scored goals at important times. Maybe he's not a 20 goal/season player but it reminds me of Son's first year, he showed flashes and scored important goals at times then at others looked low on confidence and wasn't doing well. Maybe I'm overlooking people but in terms of 4th or 5th squad option he's a damn sight better than any other player the club's had for a long time, in fact I'd argue not too long ago he'd be one of the stars in the team.
 

JCRD

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2018
19,153
30,013
I like Lucas and in full flow he can produce great output but the problem is I think we are trying to shoehorn him in and im not really sure what his best position is... and when he plays up top he does impact on Kane who then drops deep. Its a good plan B to have. Eg Barca game


I personally think he is playing ok at times and really good at other times and think his output has been good thus far. Not everything is coming off for him but id rather he continue and im sure they will
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
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Don’t get the problem some have with him. He’s been really good in his first full season. Scores, assists, offers something different from the bench. Basically everything we wanted and at a great price.
 

am_yisrael_chai

Well-Known Member
Feb 18, 2006
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How is this any different to Son? Players go on runs of good-very good form all the time. Son's first goals this season were vs West Ham 31st October after a 19 or 20 game run of not scoring at club level (including the end of last season), and he had 1 assist vs Barcelona before November. Through to the end of November he scored 3 and assisted 2 this season in his first 16 games. In the last 2 weeks Son has scored 6, assisted 5 and since December he has scored 9, assisted 6.

In the last 16 games Lucas has scored 5 assisted 1, including scoring the goal that kept the team in the CL. Lucas has been here for about a year, he will keep improving his chemistry with the team and he will go on a hot streak eventually just like how Son's form will drop significantly again. What is needed is enough quality in the squad that can pick up the slack when others aren't performing to keep winning throughout the entire season, Lucas has shown quality and scored goals at important times. Maybe he's not a 20 goal/season player but it reminds me of Son's first year, he showed flashes and scored important goals at times then at others looked low on confidence and wasn't doing well. Maybe I'm overlooking people but in terms of 4th or 5th squad option he's a damn sight better than any other player the club's had for a long time, in fact I'd argue not too long ago he'd be one of the stars in the team.
Do you seriously think Moura’s best is anywhere close to Son’s best ?
 

HarryKane

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2015
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894
Do you seriously think Moura’s best is anywhere close to Son’s best ?
Right now we don't know if we've seen Lucas' best given he's only been here for 1 year, but would you not say his performance vs Man U was *very* good? That was one hell of a performance that night, read the commnets from earlier in the thread busting trouser seams at it:

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/player-watch-lucas-moura.131418/page-186

Certainly seems that his best is pretty damn emphatic given there's 7 or 8 pages of gushing after 1 performance. His potm award for august would also suggest his best is pretty good:



Would you say Son's first year was equal to his best now? Certainly wasn't close to this form and it's taken him 3.5 years to hit this level of quality. But anyway even if it isn't as good he doesn't have to push Son out of the team, he has to be good enough that he's a good option for rotation, when players are out of form/injured or off the bench which he has shown he is. Having said that I am also very happy to have another player who at his best is very exciting an can make things happen and scares teams with his pace.
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,179
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Not picking on your reply as all the replies to my post seem to uniformly disagree with my view so just using yours as an example.

You say he is a good bench option. When you see his number come up do you ever think he is a going to be a game changer ? (Yes I was at at the Nou Camp before anyone wants to reference that). I just feel he has moments of brilliance that suggest he could be amazing but 90%+ of the time he seems to go down blind alleys.

As to the point of value for money I’m not saying he isn’t a £25m player just that we didn’t get a bargain and arguably we need to stop buying players who are good for the bench and start buying players who challenge the first 11.
He does have holes in his game, but there is talent there. He’s on course to get 15 goals in his first full season here, which is not too shabby.
 

Paolo10

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2004
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Whatever you think about him, considering how tiny he is there is no denying that he is game for going up for a header.

Relative to his size he's an absolute beast in the air.

20190105_211747.jpg
 
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synththfc

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2017
3,740
26,716
Can't believe what I'm seeing in here. 8 goals in half a season, a season which is his first in the premier league, and he's been in and out of the team regularly. His performances haven't been perfect, but neither were Son's/Lamela's/Dele's in their first seasons in the Prem either. The fact that he's putting up these numbers while still acclimating to the league is more than I expected.

He offers something different to our other attacking options, and if we were to sell him now we wouldn't get less than 40 million. We got him at a bargain price. Lucky to have him.
 

fluffybunnyuk

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Oct 16, 2017
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I like Moura, hes got potential. I'm sure poch will work more magic on him this summer. The others have been playing the spurs way for a long time. Moura is good for running at defences, and making them panic. Hes also got nimble feet with the ball. I hoped he'd play all the time like he did in the Manure game, but i'm a realist. He is a good rotation player too, and when son goes on holiday i'm sure we'll notice moura a bit more.
I also think given that Llorente and Janssen didnt work out, that Moura can stick them away nicely which is also a bonus.
All in all it is still a great bit of business, now if only we had a couple more mouras in the squad i'd be content.
 

coys200

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May 22, 2017
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If you seriously don’t think his form has dipped in the last 6 weeks you’re being incredibly kind to him. My opinion is not knee jerk at all, if it was 1 or 2 games fair enough. But I genuinely can’t remember last time he had a good game I think it was PSV away. Ok he’s scored a couple of important goals but that doesn’t constitute having a good game.
 

HarryKane

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2015
145
894
If you seriously don’t think his form has dipped in the last 6 weeks you’re being incredibly kind to him. My opinion is not knee jerk at all, if it was 1 or 2 games fair enough. But I genuinely can’t remember last time he had a good game I think it was PSV away. Ok he’s scored a couple of important goals but that doesn’t constitute having a good game.

I'm not saying his form hasn't dipped I'm saying players always dip in form. How long did it take Kane to get back to himself after his injury vs Bournemouth in march? He wasn't himself the rest of the season and took some time to get back to himself this season. Son I've already explained with 3g 2a the first 4 months of this season, currently in crazy form and will dip because this rate is unsustainable.

Will you turn on Son when he's only averaging a goal or assist once every 3 games over several months like he was doing earlier this season which is what Lucas currently is doing, will Son not be good enough then? Or is it okay because you recognise a player can go in and out of form for extended periods throughout a season because we've been watching football for years, know it happens and cut them some slack because we recognise they're good players despite this.

I’m not convinced he’s good enough to be our no 1 attacking choice from the bench which he currently is

Okay so who do you think should be the number 1 attacking choice off the bench? Keep in mind Lamela's injured, GKN and Janssen aren't good enough and Llorente doesn't play in the same position, who should be playing ahead of him? And assume that Dele, Son, Kane and Eriksen are playing like they currently are.
 

TheAmerican

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Aug 30, 2012
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Wasn’t that PSG fans criticism of him too?

I agree to an extent but for me he’s been a good signing and has definitely strengthened the squad. He helped us out massively at the start of the season when Son was out but then his form dropped off a little. He did play a lot of games though and could have been feeling the effects of that after not really playing for a year before that.

It’s not inconceivable that Poch is resting him a little now in the hope he has a similar impact for us when Son is away in January. He will be Son’s replacement then so will be playing virtually every game.

That's a very interesting point. Lucas is our only similar replacement for Sonny. We will definitely need him here in January.
 

Ghost Hardware

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Aug 31, 2012
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I like Moura but there is no doubt that his performances have been pretty poor recently. I’m not too worried as I still think he is struggling with the fitness side of things, I think the game last night was the first time he completed 90 mins in months. So until he has played a full season and completely adapted to Poch’s tactics, training and team mates we won’t really know how good he can be. When Son goes he will he the obvious replacement so it will be interesting to see how he does, hopefully he can rediscover his form. I will say tho, the one thing that has worried me recently is his dip in dribbling, he doesn’t seem to be beating players that much at the moment and in general his decision making has gone down I feel. I do really think that is related to a lack of fitness as he was much sharper and more dangerous at the start of the season. I do think it will come but we might not see what he can really do until next season.
 

ohtottenham!

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Aug 15, 2013
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I like Moura but there is no doubt that his performances have been pretty poor recently. I’m not too worried as I still think he is struggling with the fitness side of things, I think the game last night was the first time he completed 90 mins in months. So until he has played a full season and completely adapted to Poch’s tactics, training and team mates we won’t really know how good he can be. When Son goes he will he the obvious replacement so it will be interesting to see how he does, hopefully he can rediscover his form. I will say tho, the one thing that has worried me recently is his dip in dribbling, he doesn’t seem to be beating players that much at the moment and in general his decision making has gone down I feel. I do really think that is related to a lack of fitness as he was much sharper and more dangerous at the start of the season. I do think it will come but we might not see what he can really do until next season.
I think it's down to game time, and still being fairly new to the set up compared to everyone else in our attacking line up. Alli, Son, Eriksen, Lamela can have a few games off, but still come back and link up smoothly because they know each other's games and roles so well.
 

coys200

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May 22, 2017
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I'm not saying his form hasn't dipped I'm saying players always dip in form. How long did it take Kane to get back to himself after his injury vs Bournemouth in march? He wasn't himself the rest of the season and took some time to get back to himself this season. Son I've already explained with 3g 2a the first 4 months of this season, currently in crazy form and will dip because this rate is unsustainable.

Will you turn on Son when he's only averaging a goal or assist once every 3 games over several months like he was doing earlier this season which is what Lucas currently is doing, will Son not be good enough then? Or is it okay because you recognise a player can go in and out of form for extended periods throughout a season because we've been watching football for years, know it happens and cut them some slack because we recognise they're good players despite this.



Okay so who do you think should be the number 1 attacking choice off the bench? Keep in mind Lamela's injured, GKN and Janssen aren't good enough and Llorente doesn't play in the same position, who should be playing ahead of him? And assume that Dele, Son, Kane and Eriksen are playing like they currently are.


Well you took my quote completely out of context and I have not “turned” on him. My simple observation is that his form has dipped in last 6 weeks AND if it carries on at this level then imo he isn’t good enough to be our 1st attacking sub. You can’t compare it with someone like Kane looking sluggish as we have 5 seasons of Kane good form to reference. With Moura we currently probably have a 2 month period where he has looked good. There’s a reason why PSG bought him and then sold him and there’s s reason why he isn’t currently making the Brazil squad. And that reason is inconsistency over long periods to date in his career which is why he cost £25m not £60m. Hopefully he can get back to his early season form.
 

Dharmabum

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2003
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Well you took my quote completely out of context and I have not “turned” on him. My simple observation is that his form has dipped in last 6 weeks AND if it carries on at this level then imo he isn’t good enough to be our 1st attacking sub. You can’t compare it with someone like Kane looking sluggish as we have 5 seasons of Kane good form to reference. With Moura we currently probably have a 2 month period where he has looked good. There’s a reason why PSG bought him and then sold him and there’s s reason why he isn’t currently making the Brazil squad. And that reason is inconsistency over long periods to date in his career which is why he cost £25m not £60m. Hopefully he can get back to his early season form.

He actually were quite recently selected to the Brazilian squad - after not being included for years - and even played :)
 
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Stamford

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Sep 15, 2015
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He's done well but I'm hoping he steps it up in Sons absence. Would be amazing to have him firing in those games
 
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