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Player Watch: Juan Foyth

glospur

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2015
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I'm curious if anybody has knowledge on how the Man City inverted fullback system works tactically or can point me to an article?

I found this:



But was curious of the forums opinions.

I remember it being a massive talking point when Pep first took over City. I think he had Sagna and Clichy at the tme, but that might be wrong, and he started out the season playing them on their nominally 'wrong' side. Instead of playing high and wide like his fullbacks do now, they tucked into the defensive midfield area in order to offer more options for playing the ball out from the back and through midfield.

I seem to remember people saying that it was something he developed in his own style when he was at Munich, but to be fair he had a couple of brilliant technical FBs in Lahm and Alaba there at the time, and the same thing never really worked at City for him. I seem to remember him abandoning it about halfway through the season for more traditional fullbakcks. Although, in saying traditional, when it comes to Pep I actually mean it. He doesn't seem to use is FBs in anywhere near the same attacking way as we did when we had Rose and Walker or Liverpool did this season with TAA and Robertson. He's far more conservative with them than say Klopp, perhaps because he generally tends to play a very attacking midfield, so it gives the team that extra bit of defensive cover. Whereas a lot of modern teams get their width from their FBs, Pep seems to still use touchline wingers on a reasonably regular basis, think Sane and Sterling, who sometimes will switch over in games, but often do stay wide to stretch the pitch, and open the inside channels for the advanced midfielders. I think that was particularly the case two seasons ago, but in saying that he did tend to play the likes of Mahrez, Sterling and B. SIlva as inverted wingers last season. I guess it just proves that even the very best are always adjusting and tweaking tactically from season to season.

And speaking of inverted wingers, I think that's another attraction of the inverted fullback. With the prevalence of those types of inside forwards who do play on their 'wrong' side, think Salah and Mane, the idea is that playing an inverted FB will allow them to defend on the dominant foot when the winger comes inside to pass or shoot. It worked to good effect for us against Liverpool actually in the 4-1 game, where Aurier played on the left, and although Salah did score, Aurier had a really good game on him for the most part.
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
I remember it being a massive talking point when Pep first took over City. I think he had Sagna and Clichy at the tme, but that might be wrong, and he started out the season playing them on their nominally 'wrong' side. Instead of playing high and wide like his fullbacks do now, they tucked into the defensive midfield area in order to offer more options for playing the ball out from the back and through midfield.

I seem to remember people saying that it was something he developed in his own style when he was at Munich, but to be fair he had a couple of brilliant technical FBs in Lahm and Alaba there at the time, and the same thing never really worked at City for him. I seem to remember him abandoning it about halfway through the season for more traditional fullbakcks. Although, in saying traditional, when it comes to Pep I actually mean it. He doesn't seem to use is FBs in anywhere near the same attacking way as we did when we had Rose and Walker or Liverpool did this season with TAA and Robertson. He's far more conservative with them than say Klopp, perhaps because he generally tends to play a very attacking midfield, so it gives the team that extra bit of defensive cover. Whereas a lot of modern teams get their width from their FBs, Pep seems to still use touchline wingers on a reasonably regular basis, think Sane and Sterling, who sometimes will switch over in games, but often do stay wide to stretch the pitch, and open the inside channels for the advanced midfielders. I think that was particularly the case two seasons ago, but in saying that he did tend to play the likes of Mahrez, Sterling and B. SIlva as inverted wingers last season. I guess it just proves that even the very best are always adjusting and tweaking tactically from season to season.

And speaking of inverted wingers, I think that's another attraction of the inverted fullback. With the prevalence of those types of inside forwards who do play on their 'wrong' side, think Salah and Mane, the idea is that playing an inverted FB will allow them to defend on the dominant foot when the winger comes inside to pass or shoot. It worked to good effect for us against Liverpool actually in the 4-1 game, where Aurier played on the left, and although Salah did score, Aurier had a really good game on him for the most part.

Yeah that's why KWP might have a future at LB in an inverted fullback role but not as a traditional fullback on the left because his technical ability to dribble into midfield would work well, I know inverted fullback isn't the same as a winger (i.e playing opposite foot to side) but I think KWP may suit it.

I'm just analysing our team and I think inverted fullbacks would suit Foyth and Davies, it covers the parts of the game they don't have i.e pace whilst also keeps us prepared for the counter. We would need more traditional style wingers i.e Moura and Son but Poch never seems to play Moura, Kane, Son as a front 3. The other problem I have with it is the Winks/Dele/Ndombele dilemma in that, you need one of them to sit infront of the CB's and that feels like a waste for Ndombele's talents. I'm imagining it with Lo Celso involved and could see Ndombele holding with Dele and Lo Celso free to push up but as I say, bit of a waste of Ndombele but then you'd have to move Dele and Moura would be sacrificed which kinda then defeats the inverted fullbacks purpose if you don't have those wingers who overlap and run at the fullbacks.

It's interesting to analyse for sure, I really do get the feeling that Foyth/Davies/KWP could lead us to that inverted style but it's how it all lands further up the field that would then cause a conundrum.
 

punkisback

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2004
4,410
7,278
I don't think inverted fullbacks are a good idea; you still need pace to keep up with those attackers cutting in. And it also weakens your passing options in possession.
 

glospur

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2015
2,608
9,806
Yeah that's why KWP might have a future at LB in an inverted fullback role but not as a traditional fullback on the left because his technical ability to dribble into midfield would work well, I know inverted fullback isn't the same as a winger (i.e playing opposite foot to side) but I think KWP may suit it.

I'm just analysing our team and I think inverted fullbacks would suit Foyth and Davies, it covers the parts of the game they don't have i.e pace whilst also keeps us prepared for the counter. We would need more traditional style wingers i.e Moura and Son but Poch never seems to play Moura, Kane, Son as a front 3. The other problem I have with it is the Winks/Dele/Ndombele dilemma in that, you need one of them to sit infront of the CB's and that feels like a waste for Ndombele's talents. I'm imagining it with Lo Celso involved and could see Ndombele holding with Dele and Lo Celso free to push up but as I say, bit of a waste of Ndombele but then you'd have to move Dele and Moura would be sacrificed which kinda then defeats the inverted fullbacks purpose if you don't have those wingers who overlap and run at the fullbacks.

It's interesting to analyse for sure, I really do get the feeling that Foyth/Davies/KWP could lead us to that inverted style but it's how it all lands further up the field that would then cause a conundrum.
I guess the problem with playing inverterd FBs in a system like ours, where we rely on the FBs to be high and wide and to provide the width is that they're generally ineffective as they get further forward, unless they're spectacularly ambidextrous. They'll struggle to deliver crosses from any further than the side of the box, really, and often be looking to cut back and find someone inside. It makes it all very predictable and allows the defence to choke the middle of the attacking third.
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
15,980
48,500
Interesting, I didn’t know he used to be an AM, was that in youth football or senior?

I hope and trust that Poch can work his magic but I’m just going on what I saw last season (y)

In youth football. There are a few interviews floating around where he discusses it if you jump on Google.
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
I guess the problem with playing inverterd FBs in a system like ours, where we rely on the FBs to be high and wide and to provide the width is that they're generally ineffective as they get further forward, unless they're spectacularly ambidextrous. They'll struggle to deliver crosses from any further than the side of the box, really, and often be looking to cut back and find someone inside. It makes it all very predictable and allows the defence to choke the middle of the attacking third.

Yeah that's why I think you need the more traditional style wingers to go along with it.
 

InOffMeLeftShin

Night watchman
Admin
Jan 14, 2004
15,104
9,113
I like the idea of Foyth at full back permanently. Think he could be a revelation there. Seems like Poch has always wanted a more physical full back there and someone who can slot into a central 3 when the opposite full back advances. He makes a lot of sense. Would like an experienced back up to rotate in when needed.
 

Scissors&Tape

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2018
259
1,007
Hahaha, Spurs posted on Instagram Son nutmegging Foyth in Singapore earlier today (yesterday?) during a training session, leading to a Kane goal.



No better training for an RB than going up against Son & Kane.
 

TheAmerican

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2012
6,909
18,760

Very accurate tweet tbf.

Indeed. I've forgotten how good he is, technically. His biggest downfall is his thought process. Being on the outside mostly limits his defensive thoughts to "Don't let the player inside" I do believe he could be a phenomenal RB for us.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,957
Would be good if he is the answer at right back but I still think his future is at centreback. Belgium used to play both jan and Toby as fullbacks but we all know they are best in the centre of the back line.
 

alexis

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2012
1,820
3,374
That’s Wan Bissaka’s 1st 2nd and 3rd attribute tbf and everyone said we should buy him
Not really seen this in a lot of the games I’ve seen, in fact he’s noted for his positioning and defensive ability particularly this season. This boy will be seen as a steal for 50mill and will compete really well with TAA. don’t think Man U are the right decision whilst in flux though.
 

nedley

John Duncan's Love Child
Jul 28, 2006
13,942
28,069
Fair play. There is a huge amount of optimism about Foyth bring through as our 1st choice RB. I'll be reserving judgement on a player that albeit has shown great potential, has also had many brainfart moments.

I do think he'll become a very good/ potential elite CB but I'm not sure he has the exact attributes to become a modern day FB/WB. Going into the new season with Aurier, Foyth and the clearly underated and underdeveloped KWP is disappointing to say the least. Added that Sessegnon appears to be the only piece of recruitment for the outgoing Rose I'm standing in the 'the FB situ is high risk' camp.

I predict we'll revisit this in the coming windows.
 

nedley

John Duncan's Love Child
Jul 28, 2006
13,942
28,069
Some good bits but he always seems to worry me a bit, esp when he’s done for pace and he’s trying to catch up by leaning in - and he goes to ground quite a lot, esp in dangerous areas.

Not a good trait for a FB.

I've not got a problem with him getting some game time at RB.

I do have a problem with him being our 1st choice RB.
 
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