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Player Watch Player Watch: Guglielmo Vicario

FloridaSpur

Well-Known Member
Jun 21, 2021
1,322
3,446
If only it worked like that. Let’s just go and get whoever we want. If that was the case we would hardly go for Raya.

Where did I say that we should just go and get any player we want. At forty million, Raya wouldn't have been our most expensive Summer signing.

And to say that we would hardly go for Raya, is plain daft, there wasn't a great crop of keepers available. Time will tell but Raya has been outstanding for Woolwich so far this season.
 

dude573

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
1,686
5,212
Some real harsh comments for him in the recent pages. He hasn't been his best, but I still think he is a top goalkeeper and will continue to be a key player for us.

I also think the FA has created a big problem for themselves with keepers/corners. It was always said that keepers got too much protection, but now that has completely reversed and they get hardly any at all. The longer this continues the more teams will copy Arsenal's blueprint and it'll happen in most games.

The only way to beat it will be for the keeper to just clatter into what is in front of them - teammate and all. No doubt that will risk injuries.
 

spurmin

Well-Known Member
Feb 8, 2005
1,630
4,431
Where did I say that we should just go and get any player we want. At forty million, Raya wouldn't have been our most expensive Summer signing.

And to say that we would hardly go for Raya, is plain daft, there wasn't a great crop of keepers available. Time will tell but Raya has been outstanding for Woolwich so far this season.
My point is Raya would have to have wanted to come. We are not a club that pays massive wages and to say that we should just go and get him is plain daft.
 

C1w8

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2011
747
1,427
My point is Raya would have to have wanted to come. We are not a club that pays massive wages and to say that we should just go and get him is plain daft.

Given Rayas situation (much smaller club and actively trying to leave), theres every chance he would have been up for joining us if we could have agreed a fee early.

In any case, "better keepers didnt want to come to us" does not make vicario a good keeper, and the concerns around his game beyond shot stopping are understandable given how long theyve persisted now, but i hope he figures them out.
 

spurmin

Well-Known Member
Feb 8, 2005
1,630
4,431

Given Rayas situation (much smaller club and actively trying to leave), theres every chance he would have been up for joining us if we could have agreed a fee early.​

Ifs and maybe’s. Doesn’t equate to we should have just gone and got him.
 

Chimbo!

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2007
3,690
3,588
the criticisms of Vicario are overblown. We’ve conceded one set piece this season and it’s he’s dodgy at corners. So much is just narrative and reputation. Once it becomes your identity everything you do is seen through that prism. One man’s flap is another man’s punch. It’s ridiculous. Every goalkeeper has dodgy moments at set pieces, it’s just whether you choose to focus on it.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
44,586
86,454
He's saved us far more goals than he's cost us. I dont think any goals have been his doing so far this season. The mistakes he's made haven't even led to a goal. The high quality chances we give away is the main issue.
 

vegassd

The ghost of Johnny Cash
Aug 5, 2006
3,498
3,770
I think we may have overrated some of the players who joined last season, largely because they were such a relief compared to what we experienced in previous seasons. With Lloris in steep decline, Vicario was a breath of fresh air, and the same can be said for Udogie over Davies and Sarr over Hojbjerg. We also started the season on a high note, and the style of play was a welcome change for many of us after the struggles of the last four or five years.
I think the fundamental problem is that we tend to view players as if they are robots with a set performance level, and any time they stray from that perceived level it must be an issue with the player/coaching/mentality instead of them simply being human.

The fact is that all our players are going to have bad games or just bad moments here and there. And for defensive players, those moments can lead to goals conceded which always look worse than a misplaced pass or skied shot. It's then very easy to judge players based on the mistakes they have made without balancing that against the positives.

I totally agree that there are question marks with Vic, but nothing (for me) which stands out as being uncoachable. Ange has us playing high risk football, so perhaps Vic's shot-stopping qualities are so valuable they easily outweigh him being less commanding than some? I suppose I would see Vic as one of those players who isn't impossible to upgrade, but it would be super low on the priority list.
 

Shanks

Kinda not anymore....
May 11, 2005
32,420
22,935
the criticisms of Vicario are overblown. We’ve conceded one set piece this season and it’s he’s dodgy at corners. So much is just narrative and reputation. Once it becomes your identity everything you do is seen through that prism. One man’s flap is another man’s punch. It’s ridiculous. Every goalkeeper has dodgy moments at set pieces, it’s just whether you choose to focus on it.
It isn't overblown and it's okay to discuss in here.

You can talk about one goal from set pieces this season, and its very much a fact, no argument at all.

However, there are some (big?) weaknesses from this type of angle, that cause the whole team to panic, its not just this season, but also last season, found out pretty early in his start.

TBH, Arsenal do it to all keepers and it works for them, it is difficult to play against, and Vicario has made a few improvements to how he sets up, example being his starting position is slightly higher, which is a big positive.

The movement once a ball is kicked is negative though, as he steps too far backwards, and keeps going backwards, thus inviting more attack - if he could just hold a little more ground, attack rather than go backwards, he can really stop that part.

But the main thing with him at the moment, is what's in his head, second guessing, over thinking and the such, it doesn't look natural, it looks nervy as fuck, where as he needs to demonstrate that confidence - hoping it comes soon though, maybe a few solid games will help with that.

Stated all along, he is a fantastic shot stopper, his handling isn't actually too bad, positioning at set pieces needs improving and ball at feet isn't that strong either. He is pretty good at playing at the back (not great), but he can't hit into the channels unfortunately, he floats a ball up top rather than drives a ball into space.

TBH, not many keepers have all of those attributes either.
 

Freddie

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2004
2,203
4,684
There are a couple of things he obviously needs to work on but let's not understate how much harder he has it than Raya. Our defending of set pieces puts so much more pressure on him when even our CBs let attackers walk away from them. Plus our high line often with no pressure means we're always a pass away from the opposition being in on goal and he rarely lets us down there. Arsenal have a rock-solid defence at the moment which gives a keeper so much confidence and won't expose his weaknesses as much, and I'm convinced Raya isn't as good as he currently looks. We're asking a lot more of Vic than Arsenal are of Raya.
 

bubble07

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2004
24,095
32,368
Where did I say that we should just go and get any player we want. At forty million, Raya wouldn't have been our most expensive Summer signing.

And to say that we would hardly go for Raya, is plain daft, there wasn't a great crop of keepers available. Time will tell but Raya has been outstanding for Woolwich so far this season.

Yea there wasn't a great crop plus we couldn't go into pre season without a keeper
 

Shanks

Kinda not anymore....
May 11, 2005
32,420
22,935
There are a couple of things he obviously needs to work on but let's not understate how much harder he has it than Raya. Our defending of set pieces puts so much more pressure on him when even our CBs let attackers walk away from them. Plus our high line often with no pressure means we're always a pass away from the opposition being in on goal and he rarely lets us down there. Arsenal have a rock-solid defence at the moment which gives a keeper so much confidence and won't expose his weaknesses as much, and I'm convinced Raya isn't as good as he currently looks. We're asking a lot more of Vic than Arsenal are of Raya.
Its a great point to make out, and actually Raya isn't that strong aerially either, or at least never was, pretty sure he dropped the ball against us last season in which we scored or nearly scored.

They have a really good defence in front of him though.
 

Mattspur

ENIC IN
Jan 7, 2004
4,933
7,426
Vicario has certainly had issues from set pieces, but one of the biggest issues for me is that when one of our players is fouled whilst defending a corner or freekick, we don't make a big enough issue of it. We should be going nuts to the ref and thereby forcing VAR to take a long hard look at it. From memory, it feels like most of the corners we've conceded from, Vicario has been impeded to a level where you'd expect to see a freekick given pretty much every time, and it seems like a situation has developed where it's now seen as ok to get physical with him and not be punished, where every other keeper is significantly protected.
 

Shanks

Kinda not anymore....
May 11, 2005
32,420
22,935
He has put in a superb performance tonight.

Looked way more assured and confident, hopefully see's him put this shit behind him and to move forward now, really happy for him tonight!
 
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