wiggo24
Well-Known Member
- Jan 5, 2013
- 5,091
- 36,808
Had me in the first half ngl, thank god
Ron Burgundy
SC Supporter
- Jun 19, 2008
- 7,736
- 23,410
REALLY funny
GetSpurredOn
Well-Known Member
- Jun 18, 2006
- 5,022
- 8,922
Really think this guy will be a good addition.
Has a tenacity about him, but with real ability on the ball. Moves with the ball very well at speed, and seems to find the target consistently when an opening presents. Looks like he’s always willing to show for the ball, confident even under pressure or in tight spaces. Can slot into CM, RWF (coming in onto his left foot), or in the No10 spot.
Assuming we go back to the 4231 that settled us down on Saturday, we have
CM 2 - Winks, Ndombele, Sissoko, Dier, Skipp & Lo Celso.
AM 3 - Lamela, Eriksen, Alli, Son, Moura, Lo Celso & Ndombele.
CF 1 - Kane, Son, Moura & Parrott.
Has a tenacity about him, but with real ability on the ball. Moves with the ball very well at speed, and seems to find the target consistently when an opening presents. Looks like he’s always willing to show for the ball, confident even under pressure or in tight spaces. Can slot into CM, RWF (coming in onto his left foot), or in the No10 spot.
Assuming we go back to the 4231 that settled us down on Saturday, we have
CM 2 - Winks, Ndombele, Sissoko, Dier, Skipp & Lo Celso.
AM 3 - Lamela, Eriksen, Alli, Son, Moura, Lo Celso & Ndombele.
CF 1 - Kane, Son, Moura & Parrott.
scat1620
L'espion mal fait
- May 11, 2008
- 16,351
- 52,725
One of those tactics videos that nerds make has been created following Lo Celso's move to Tottenham:
I believe in the ability of the video's creator not to make stupid and obvious transposition errors when presenting statistics, so I'm going to base my expectations on 3:13 and expect a not-unreasonable 4 assists per game from Lo Celso this season.
I believe in the ability of the video's creator not to make stupid and obvious transposition errors when presenting statistics, so I'm going to base my expectations on 3:13 and expect a not-unreasonable 4 assists per game from Lo Celso this season.
coyspurs18
Mistakes were made
- Jul 4, 2013
- 2,602
- 7,082
HW61
Well-Known Member
- Aug 31, 2012
- 682
- 3,634
Makes sense. However one niggle is the permanent element of the deal falls within next summer’s spend, even if cash instalments are over a period of time. Therefore, is GLC really a summer 2020 spend, when we could very well be losing 3 of our best players in CE, Verts and Toby on frees. We haven’t got too much value to realise on sales next year.
Maybe I’m missing the point through lack of knowledge, but if the above is broadly the case, our next spend in this transfer window, whilst cleverly structured, actually wasn’t that dramatic.
doctor stefan Freud
the tired tread of sad biology
- Sep 2, 2013
- 15,170
- 72,169
True. I get the impression (but this is in no way definite) that the Lo Celso loan structure might have had as much to do with having funds to buy Dybala as it was to save Betis a couple of million quid.
If Eriksen leaves and we do acquire Dybala it’s safe to say we’re well stocked in the midfield and attack for some time. Future funds would then be earmarked for sorting out our defence. I’d imagine next summer we would be looking for a Toby replacement and a right back, but possibly not much more
ToDarrenIsToDo
Well-Known Member
- Aug 22, 2017
- 1,665
- 6,291
We pay our fees across 4 year installments though so even if the deal was outright permanent our accounts would show 1/4th of the overall fee, c£15m if the rumoured total fee is to be believed.
The only thing the loan does is saves Real Betis £3m in the permanent % that they need to pay PSG. In theory this has reduced the fee we needed to pay and what was being demanded from Betis for the player.
It doesn't effect our net spend values as we do our payment structures over 4 year periods as stated so even if it was a permanent deal straight off the bat for £60m, the accounts would still show £15m spent like it will on the loan agreed
BehindEnemyLines
Twisting a Melon with the Rev. Black Grape
- Apr 13, 2006
- 4,622
- 13,335
You're getting cashflow mixed up with accounting profit and loss. A loan payment would be accounted over the duration of the loan - as they are normally 1 year then it'd all be accounted within that year (assuming it didn't span accounting years).
A player purchase is accounted as an amortising asset over the duration of the players contract. If the contract is 5 years then it'll be accounted as 1/5 each year as a charge against the p&l and the asset value depreciating accordingly.
Player salaries are charged directly to the p&l.
BehindEnemyLines
Twisting a Melon with the Rev. Black Grape
- Apr 13, 2006
- 4,622
- 13,335
There is a lot to take into count when looking at the business finances of a club like Tottenham,and its not just A-B=C.
A very simplified look at the background and circumstances for a football club might be useful......
Spurs have significant loans for building the new stadium. Now loans are generally regarded as cheap finance as they don't dilute the ownership of the club and can offset the cost of interest against profits (not so cheap if there is no profit). If spurs are making profits then the loan becomes 20% cheaper as you wouldn't be paying tax on those profits (to the extent they are offset against interest).
If spurs made a profit of £100m. They may have to pay 20% tax on that..... However, they can reinvest to save the tax cost.
The interest on loans might be £50m a year against those profits.
The amortisation on £130m player purchases (assuming all 5 year contracts) would be £26m.
The player loan fee at perhaps £20m.
That means we would be left with a vastly improved asset an donly pay tax on £4m......
Sorry, quite a few hypotheticals above, and purely just to indicate that club finances aren't as simple as net spend or ffp outriggers. A lot depends on the clubs strategic position and where it wants to be both financially and in the field.
A very simplified look at the background and circumstances for a football club might be useful......
Spurs have significant loans for building the new stadium. Now loans are generally regarded as cheap finance as they don't dilute the ownership of the club and can offset the cost of interest against profits (not so cheap if there is no profit). If spurs are making profits then the loan becomes 20% cheaper as you wouldn't be paying tax on those profits (to the extent they are offset against interest).
If spurs made a profit of £100m. They may have to pay 20% tax on that..... However, they can reinvest to save the tax cost.
The interest on loans might be £50m a year against those profits.
The amortisation on £130m player purchases (assuming all 5 year contracts) would be £26m.
The player loan fee at perhaps £20m.
That means we would be left with a vastly improved asset an donly pay tax on £4m......
Sorry, quite a few hypotheticals above, and purely just to indicate that club finances aren't as simple as net spend or ffp outriggers. A lot depends on the clubs strategic position and where it wants to be both financially and in the field.
Also happened here with Kaboul/Capoue/Adebayor. And possibly Lennon too for some reason.
hellava_tough
Well-Known Member
- Apr 21, 2005
- 9,429
- 12,383
Excellent article on GLC and Poch from GiveMeSport...
Giovani Lo Celso: The remarkable story of Tottenham's new signing and what makes him so special
Tottenham have really signed themselves a top, top talent
Football in South America, more than anywhere else in the world, is shrouded in myth and fable. It is a rich tapestry of hearsay and folklore; a sport discussed more in the vernacular of the supernatural than analysed as a science.
And embroidered into that story are numerous mystical figures, ascribed abilities that cannot necessarily be explained using reason or logic.
Jorge Griffa, though not widely known outside Argentina, is one such character. And before we get to what exactly this has to do with new Tottenham signing Giovani Lo Celso and his manager Mauricio Pochettino, please do bear with me.
A defender during his playing career, Griffa spent a decade with Atlético Madrid after making his name at Rosario-based club Newell’s Old Boys. He was hugely successful in Spain, winning the Cup Winners’ Cup in 1962, La Liga in 1966, as well as three Copa Del Reys.
Yet the legend of Griffa is built not around what he did on the pitch. After hanging up his boots, he returned to Newell’s Old Boys to become a youth coach. And it is from there that his myth has grown.
Under his watch, La Lepra’s production line did not stop churning out excellent footballers. Through came Jorge Valdano, Américo Gallego, Gabriel Batistuta, Gerardo Martino, Maxi Rodríguez, Walter Samuel and Gabriel Heinze, among many others.
Then Griffa moved to Boca Juniors and the magic kept happening. Nicolás Burdisso, Éver Banega, Fernando Gago and Carlos Tévez were moulded in his hands.
After returning to Rosario, it was he who knocked on the door of the Messi household to convince young Lionel’s parents that their son should sign for Newell’s.
Jorge Griffa has an eye for talent.
And this season, that eye will be firmly fixed on the white half of north London. For there, he will find two more of his own. One in the dugout and, with the arrival of Giovani Lo Celso, another on the pitch.
The story of how Mauricio Pochettino was discovered has been much repeated since Marcelo Bielsa arrived at Leeds a year ago, always with Bielsa as the protagonist.
For those who have not heard it: on a scouting mission and the Argentine countryside, Bielsa and another Newell’s coach turned up at a 14-year-old Pochettino’s house at 2 a.m. asking Mr. and Mrs. Pochettino to see their son.
They were taken to cast their eyes over the sleeping Mauricio and, after one look at his legs, the coaches decided that he was a future star and took him to Newell’s.
The man with Bielsa that night? Griffa, of course.
Two decades later, with Griffa having given his name to his own youth football club in Rosario – the Asociación Atlética Jorge Griffa – the same man found another player to add to the glittering list.
A left-footed midfielder with wonderful balance and a silky first touch, it was clear, just like it had been with Pochettino, that the boy they called ‘Monito’ – ‘little monkey’, a nickname bestowed upon him by his father Juan – had something special.
After two years with Griffa’s academy side, Lo Celso was ready to sign for a big local club. Unlike Pochettino, though, Lo Celso did not go to Griffa’s beloved Newell’s. He was a fan of their bitter rivals, Rosario Central, and he followed his dream to play in their yellow and blue strip.
He went on to make his debut for El Canalla five years later and within a few months been bestowed the title of the “ruby of Argentine football” by the influential El Gráfico magazine. Inside a year, he had been whisked off to Paris Saint-Germain.
Despite the pair falling on either side of their city’s club divide, Pochettino has long seen Lo Celso as a central part of Tottenham’s future and, according to reports from Argentina, his decision to remain as Spurs manager this summer rested on Daniel Levy signing the 23-year-old.
Now, the men from Rosario have been reunited in north London and are seeking to push Tottenham on to new heights this term.
A quick look at what Lo Celso did in the summer, when he joined up with Argentina for the Copa América, shows us why, beyond the obvious bond of their respective pasts, Pochettino was so determined to get his man.
As mentioned, the young Argentine international has excellent technique. He is happy to receive the ball under pressure, he’s a dynamic dribbler and likes to drive the team forward with quick one-twos. He can press hard when his side is out of possession, too.
To add to all that – and crucial to the desire to sign him – Lo Celso is versatile. Over seven games with La Albiceleste, six at the Copa and one warm-up friendly, he played three different roles.
In the 5-0 win over Nicaragua and 2-0 defeat to Colombia, he played on the right of a midfield four. In the 1-1 draw with Paraguay, he came into the central pairing. In the rest of the games, head coach Lionel Scaloni deployed him on the left of a midfield diamond.
He did not start in the quarter or semi-finals, making way for the superior lung power of Marcos Acuña. But in both games, he came on around the 65-minute mark, looking to use his skill and vision to exploit the spaces that open up late on. Against Venezuela in the quarter-final, he scored. And his introduction against Brazil drastically improved the movement of the ball through the central areas.
For the third-place playoff against Chile, Lo Celso was reintroduced to the first team – suggesting Scaloni sees him as part of the long-term solution for an Argentina side that has struggled in recent years – and he provided an assist for Paulo Dybala’s goal.
For Real Betis last season, he showed yet more flexibility, mostly playing off the striker in Quique Setien’s 3-4-2-1 system and sometimes even filling in at No.9. With this extra freedom, he notched an impressive 16 goals and 6 assists in 45 games.
Griffa clearly versed Lo Celso in tactical awareness just as well as he did Pochettino.
According to Lo Celso himself, he is happy to be deployed in whatever way the coach sees fit. “I have always remained humble in order to grow,” he told Spanish paper AS last year.
“I intend to maintain that trajectory because it is inculcated in me. It is my family that gave me this. One of the things they told me was to always have my feet on the ground.”
Towards the end of last season, Pochettino increasingly sent out his team with a midfield diamond, in addition to employing the 3-man defence and 4-2-3-1 formations he has always used at Spurs.
Lo Celso, then, is not a direct replacement for Christian Eriksen – nobody could replicate the prolific chance creation of the Dane. Instead, he is part of a new era; Pochettino’s Tottenham 3.0.
Just a word of warning to the Tottenham players, coaches and staff: don’t get caught between Lo Celso and Pochettino on the morning of Monday September 16. Rosario will have played Newell’s the evening before and whoever wins will be sure to make the other side suffer.
https://www.givemesport.com/1497220...ing-and-what-makes-him-so-special?autoplay=on
Giovani Lo Celso: The remarkable story of Tottenham's new signing and what makes him so special
Tottenham have really signed themselves a top, top talent
Football in South America, more than anywhere else in the world, is shrouded in myth and fable. It is a rich tapestry of hearsay and folklore; a sport discussed more in the vernacular of the supernatural than analysed as a science.
And embroidered into that story are numerous mystical figures, ascribed abilities that cannot necessarily be explained using reason or logic.
Jorge Griffa, though not widely known outside Argentina, is one such character. And before we get to what exactly this has to do with new Tottenham signing Giovani Lo Celso and his manager Mauricio Pochettino, please do bear with me.
A defender during his playing career, Griffa spent a decade with Atlético Madrid after making his name at Rosario-based club Newell’s Old Boys. He was hugely successful in Spain, winning the Cup Winners’ Cup in 1962, La Liga in 1966, as well as three Copa Del Reys.
Yet the legend of Griffa is built not around what he did on the pitch. After hanging up his boots, he returned to Newell’s Old Boys to become a youth coach. And it is from there that his myth has grown.
Under his watch, La Lepra’s production line did not stop churning out excellent footballers. Through came Jorge Valdano, Américo Gallego, Gabriel Batistuta, Gerardo Martino, Maxi Rodríguez, Walter Samuel and Gabriel Heinze, among many others.
Then Griffa moved to Boca Juniors and the magic kept happening. Nicolás Burdisso, Éver Banega, Fernando Gago and Carlos Tévez were moulded in his hands.
After returning to Rosario, it was he who knocked on the door of the Messi household to convince young Lionel’s parents that their son should sign for Newell’s.
Jorge Griffa has an eye for talent.
And this season, that eye will be firmly fixed on the white half of north London. For there, he will find two more of his own. One in the dugout and, with the arrival of Giovani Lo Celso, another on the pitch.
The story of how Mauricio Pochettino was discovered has been much repeated since Marcelo Bielsa arrived at Leeds a year ago, always with Bielsa as the protagonist.
For those who have not heard it: on a scouting mission and the Argentine countryside, Bielsa and another Newell’s coach turned up at a 14-year-old Pochettino’s house at 2 a.m. asking Mr. and Mrs. Pochettino to see their son.
They were taken to cast their eyes over the sleeping Mauricio and, after one look at his legs, the coaches decided that he was a future star and took him to Newell’s.
The man with Bielsa that night? Griffa, of course.
Two decades later, with Griffa having given his name to his own youth football club in Rosario – the Asociación Atlética Jorge Griffa – the same man found another player to add to the glittering list.
A left-footed midfielder with wonderful balance and a silky first touch, it was clear, just like it had been with Pochettino, that the boy they called ‘Monito’ – ‘little monkey’, a nickname bestowed upon him by his father Juan – had something special.
After two years with Griffa’s academy side, Lo Celso was ready to sign for a big local club. Unlike Pochettino, though, Lo Celso did not go to Griffa’s beloved Newell’s. He was a fan of their bitter rivals, Rosario Central, and he followed his dream to play in their yellow and blue strip.
He went on to make his debut for El Canalla five years later and within a few months been bestowed the title of the “ruby of Argentine football” by the influential El Gráfico magazine. Inside a year, he had been whisked off to Paris Saint-Germain.
Despite the pair falling on either side of their city’s club divide, Pochettino has long seen Lo Celso as a central part of Tottenham’s future and, according to reports from Argentina, his decision to remain as Spurs manager this summer rested on Daniel Levy signing the 23-year-old.
Now, the men from Rosario have been reunited in north London and are seeking to push Tottenham on to new heights this term.
A quick look at what Lo Celso did in the summer, when he joined up with Argentina for the Copa América, shows us why, beyond the obvious bond of their respective pasts, Pochettino was so determined to get his man.
As mentioned, the young Argentine international has excellent technique. He is happy to receive the ball under pressure, he’s a dynamic dribbler and likes to drive the team forward with quick one-twos. He can press hard when his side is out of possession, too.
To add to all that – and crucial to the desire to sign him – Lo Celso is versatile. Over seven games with La Albiceleste, six at the Copa and one warm-up friendly, he played three different roles.
In the 5-0 win over Nicaragua and 2-0 defeat to Colombia, he played on the right of a midfield four. In the 1-1 draw with Paraguay, he came into the central pairing. In the rest of the games, head coach Lionel Scaloni deployed him on the left of a midfield diamond.
He did not start in the quarter or semi-finals, making way for the superior lung power of Marcos Acuña. But in both games, he came on around the 65-minute mark, looking to use his skill and vision to exploit the spaces that open up late on. Against Venezuela in the quarter-final, he scored. And his introduction against Brazil drastically improved the movement of the ball through the central areas.
For the third-place playoff against Chile, Lo Celso was reintroduced to the first team – suggesting Scaloni sees him as part of the long-term solution for an Argentina side that has struggled in recent years – and he provided an assist for Paulo Dybala’s goal.
For Real Betis last season, he showed yet more flexibility, mostly playing off the striker in Quique Setien’s 3-4-2-1 system and sometimes even filling in at No.9. With this extra freedom, he notched an impressive 16 goals and 6 assists in 45 games.
Griffa clearly versed Lo Celso in tactical awareness just as well as he did Pochettino.
According to Lo Celso himself, he is happy to be deployed in whatever way the coach sees fit. “I have always remained humble in order to grow,” he told Spanish paper AS last year.
“I intend to maintain that trajectory because it is inculcated in me. It is my family that gave me this. One of the things they told me was to always have my feet on the ground.”
Towards the end of last season, Pochettino increasingly sent out his team with a midfield diamond, in addition to employing the 3-man defence and 4-2-3-1 formations he has always used at Spurs.
Lo Celso, then, is not a direct replacement for Christian Eriksen – nobody could replicate the prolific chance creation of the Dane. Instead, he is part of a new era; Pochettino’s Tottenham 3.0.
Just a word of warning to the Tottenham players, coaches and staff: don’t get caught between Lo Celso and Pochettino on the morning of Monday September 16. Rosario will have played Newell’s the evening before and whoever wins will be sure to make the other side suffer.
https://www.givemesport.com/1497220...ing-and-what-makes-him-so-special?autoplay=on
What an interesting article. Thanks for posting.
Khilari
Plumber. Sort of.
- Jun 19, 2008
- 3,461
- 5,287
My understanding was this was primarily an agreement between Levy and Betis to increase Betis' share of the sale and reduce the sell on clause payment to PSG who do not get a proportion of the loan fee (i.e. 20% of €40 rather than €55m).
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