Player Watch Player Watch: Giovani Lo Celso

[Deleted member 29446]

I haven't seen much of this guy, but from the highlight videos I've seen of this guy, I feel he is quite similar to Winks and not much uf an upgrade?

Sorry but I think you're giving Winks to much credit (like everyone else in here)

Look at Squawka/WhoScore _w_ and you will see L. Celso is on a different level. 9 goals 5 asisst this season only, while Winks has 1 goal, 0 assist.

Going foward he's on another level, Winks is to much side to side, small passes & speed up the play.

Even defensively he's a lot better than Winks.

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

Sorry but I think you're giving Winks to much credit (like everyone else in here)

Look at Squawka/WhoScore _w_ and you will see L. Celso is on a different level. 9 goals 5 asisst this season only, while Winks has 1 goal, 0 assist.

Going foward he's on another level, Winks is to much side to side, small passes & speed up the play.

Even defensively he's a lot better than Winks.

I'm starting to wonder whether you actually rate any player we have who isn't called Eriksen.

Your opinion of Winks is unbelievably dismissive of the absolute fact that our midfield is severely lacking when he's not part of it.

 

[fecka]

I'm starting to wonder whether you actually rate any player we have who isn't called Eriksen.

Your opinion of Winks is unbelievably dismissive of the absolute fact that our midfield is severely lacking when he's not part of it.

Our midfield is severely lacking when he’s not playing because he’s the only decent passer we have except Eriksen. He’s a good player but also quite ineffecient and limited.

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

Our midfield is severely lacking when he’s not playing because he’s the only decent passer we have except Eriksen. He’s a good player but also quite ineffecient and limited.

That inefficient & limited midfielder has dominated games at The Bernebaeu, Camp Nou & almost every CL game he's been part of.

 

[el Mindo]

Sorry but I think you're giving Winks to much credit (like everyone else in here)

Look at Squawka/WhoScore _w_ and you will see L. Celso is on a different level. 9 goals 5 asisst this season only, while Winks has 1 goal, 0 assist.

Going foward he's on another level, Winks is to much side to side, small passes & speed up the play.

Even defensively he's a lot better than Winks.

Yes I've seen the stats and know there is a difference amount of goals. But stats are just stats, the don't tell the whole picture.
In this case you must see what kind of rolle the player has and what players he has around him. Winks har 1591 minutes in the league this year, while Lo Celso has 2400 min in La Liga. Winks is set up in a more defensive / holding rolle and has more prominent players in front of him and in the box. Thus resulting in less chances to score.

I might be wrong. As I've said, I haven't seen Lo Celso play, except from high light videos. But from what I've seen, the seem quite similar in playing styles and skills. Also being similar in age and physical appearance, with Winks being HG, is really Lo Celso worth the £60m quoted?

 

[JR1994]

Yes I've seen the stats and know there is a difference amount of goals. But stats are just stats, the don't tell the whole picture.
In this case you must see what kind of rolle the player has and what players he has around him. Winks har 1591 minutes in the league this year, while Lo Celso has 2400 min in La Liga. Winks is set up in a more defensive / holding rolle and has more prominent players in front of him and in the box. Thus resulting in less chances to score.

I might be wrong. As I've said, I haven't seen Lo Celso play, except from high light videos. But from what I've seen, the seem quite similar in playing styles and skills. Also being similar in age and physical appearance, with Winks being HG, is really Lo Celso worth the £60m quoted?

Lo celso been playing in a role further forwards behind the striker/off the right for betis this season. Comparison between him and winks is stupid as it is

 

[Deleted member 29446]

I'm starting to wonder whether you actually rate any player we have who isn't called Eriksen.

Your opinion of Winks is unbelievably dismissive of the absolute fact that our midfield is severely lacking when he's not part of it.

Iv'e been a Spurs fans since 89, but i'm still hearing alot for the Eriksen stuff, which is quite funny.

I rate 65% of our squad, but I think we need a massive overhaul, that's true.

I like Winks, he's a great squad player - but I think we can do better. L. Celso being one of them/N'Dombele the other. You're free to disagree.

A CM in a challenging topside in the PL, needs to be able to help with the goals, pass it forwards and help the defense.

Winks is simply not good enough offensively, nor is he a true DM. Being able to move to ball and pass it to someone else besides him, doesn't really cut it for me. Sorry I know it's hard to hear for you british people

 

[Fredo]

Sorry but I think you're giving Winks to much credit (like everyone else in here)

Look at Squawka/WhoScore _w_ and you will see L. Celso is on a different level. 9 goals 5 asisst this season only, while Winks has 1 goal, 0 assist.

Going foward he's on another level, Winks is to much side to side, small passes & speed up the play.

Even defensively he's a lot better than Winks.

I agree, it seems like if you criticise Winks on here you're gonna get hate. The state of our midfield has created this illusion amongst fans that Winks is really good. He's an alright player with loads of potential, needs a couple of more seasons to establish himself. You would not put him ahead of Lo Celso at this moment in time.

 

[CrouchPotato]

Yes I've seen the stats and know there is a difference amount of goals. But stats are just stats, the don't tell the whole picture.
In this case you must see what kind of rolle the player has and what players he has around him. Winks har 1591 minutes in the league this year, while Lo Celso has 2400 min in La Liga. Winks is set up in a more defensive / holding rolle and has more prominent players in front of him and in the box. Thus resulting in less chances to score.

I might be wrong. As I've said, I haven't seen Lo Celso play, except from high light videos. But from what I've seen, the seem quite similar in playing styles and skills. Also being similar in age and physical appearance, with Winks being HG, is really Lo Celso worth the £60m quoted?

They are not even slightly similar players. Winks is far more of a deep lying player, he controls our tempo and make us tick. Winks plays the simple passes and carries the ball then releases not being asked to do anything too creative, clearly under instruction from Poch. Winks has been key to our good form, and it is no Coincedence that when he got injured we started looking poor.

Lo Celso is a creative player that looks to make a moment of magic happen, he’s tasked with dribbling and if he turns over the ball it isn’t a problem. Lo Celso has played attacking mid and CF for Betis at stages this season. He is however a better midfielder in a 3 than Eriksen and is far less of an out and out attacking mid, he is tenacious and able to make tackles.

Harry Winks

Lo Celso and Alli

 

[CrouchPotato]

I agree, it seems like if you criticise Winks on here you're gonna get hate. The state of our midfield has created this illusion amongst fans that Winks is really good. He's an alright player with loads of potential, needs a couple of more seasons to establish himself. You would not put him ahead of Lo Celso at this moment in time.

They are very different players. Criticism of Winks for me isn’t the issue. It’s the misconception of the type of player that Winks is. He isn’t a creative player for us. He’s the player that controls our tempo, plays the pass before the assist.

 

[Deleted member 29446]

I agree, it seems like if you criticise Winks on here you're gonna get hate. The state of our midfield has created this illusion amongst fans that Winks is really good. He's an alright player with loads of potential, needs a couple of more seasons to establish himself. You would not put him ahead of Lo Celso at this moment in time.

Agree - i'm used to it by now.

You should have a look in the Eriksen-thread, which is probably what @coopsieyid is referring to.

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

I like Winks, he's a great squad player - but I think we can do better. L. Celso being one of them/N'Dombele the other. You're free to disagree.

A CM in a challenging topside in the PL, needs to be able to help with the goals, pass it forwards and help the defense.

Winks is simply not good enough offensively, nor is he a true DM. Being able to move to ball and pass it to someone else besides him, doesn't really cut it for me. Sorry I know it's hard to hear for you british people

Yep, you wouldn't have rated Modric, Carrick or Dembele either then.

Fair play, I'll respect your opinion.

 

[Legacy]

Iv'e been a Spurs fans since 89, but i'm still hearing alot for the Eriksen stuff, which is quite funny.

I rate 65% of our squad, but I think we need a massive overhaul, that's true.

I like Winks, he's a great squad player - but I think we can do better. L. Celso being one of them/N'Dombele the other. You're free to disagree.

A CM in a challenging topside in the PL, needs to be able to help with the goals, pass it forwards and help the defense.

Winks is simply not good enough offensively, nor is he a true DM. Being able to move to ball and pass it to someone else besides him, doesn't really cut it for me. Sorry I know it's hard to hear for you british people

Huh? The vast majority of central midfielders don't particularly help with goals. The highest scoring teams in the league this season were Man City, Liverpool and Arsenal. Their main central midfielders are Fernandinho, Gundogan, Henderson, Fabinho, Wijnaldum, Torreira, Xhaka and Guendouzi. How many goals do you think they contributed between them? Very few.

Luka Modric became the first player in 10 years not named Ronaldo or Messi to win the Ballon d'Or last year. How many goals did he score the season he won it? 2. And he plays in a league and a team that enables him to go forward more often than Winks has been able to for us due to our complete lack of defensive midfield partners for him.

 

[Deleted member 29446]

Yep, you wouldn't have rated Modric either then.

Fair play, I'll respect your opinion.

Don't be silly mate.

https://www.premierleague.com/players/3723/Luka-Modric/stats

Modric was a something else..

 

[Deleted member 29446]

Huh? The vast majority of central midfielders don't particularly help with goals. The highest scoring teams in the league this season were Man City, Liverpool and Arsenal. Their main central midfielders are Fernandinho, Gundogan, Henderson, Fabinho, Wijnaldum, Torreira, Xhaka and Guendouzi. How many goals do you think they contributed between them? Very few.

Luke Modric became the first player in 10 years not named Ronaldo or Messi to win the Ballon d'Or last year. How many goals did he score the seaon he won it? 2. And he plays in a league and a team that enables him to go forward more often than Winks has been able to for us due to our complete lack of defensive midfield partners for him.

You only choose to look at the goals. Fair enough I get that. What about the other stuff?

 

[Japhet]

I agree, it seems like if you criticise Winks on here you're gonna get hate. The state of our midfield has created this illusion amongst fans that Winks is really good. He's an alright player with loads of potential, needs a couple of more seasons to establish himself. You would not put him ahead of Lo Celso at this moment in time.

IMO the only way we get LoCelso is if Eriksen is off. I think Ndombele is the number 1 CM target.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

The state of our midfield has created this illusion amongst fans that Winks is really good.

Or maybe most people just disagree with you?

 

[Legacy]

Don't be silly mate.

https://www.premierleague.com/players/3723/Luka-Modric/stats

Modric was a something else..

One of the world's best central midfielders averaging 3 goal and 4 assists a season in a team where he was the central cog on the entire team and almost everything went through him. And you still say it's a central midfielder's job to contribute to goals?

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

Don't be silly mate.

https://www.premierleague.com/players/3723/Luka-Modric/stats

Modric was a something else..

You tell me/us that a midfielder in a championship challenging side must be able to help with goals, to which I respond with Modric. Then you tell me to not be silly because Modric was something else, then provide me with a link that shows Modric basically provided us with a goal or assist roughly every 9/10 games he played.

How's that add up?

Anyway, it's not the Winks or Modric thread, neither of them have fuck all to do with Lo Celso & neither of them play in the position her plays, or are/were expected to do the same thing for the team.

 

[Japhet]

They are very different players. Criticism of Winks for me isn’t the issue. It’s the misconception of the type of player that Winks is. He isn’t a creative player for us. He’s the player that controls our tempo, plays the pass before the assist.

When Winks did play this season it was invariably because Wanyama, Dier or Dembele weren't available. I think in that scenario he did exactly what Poch asked him to do by dropping deeper and keeping play ticking over. I think we'd have seen a different set of stats if he had played alongside any of the other 3 but he was given a role which isn't really his best, and did very well in it.