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Player Watch Player Watch: Giovani Lo Celso

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Nick-TopSpursMan

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Aug 4, 2005
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Fresh quotes from our head coach today: "Giovani is in Europe for a years, but France with PSG and then Spain, it’s a completely different football world that it is in England." But no of course, you saw him score for Betis so let's put him in CM or RAM or CAM or any other position that we have no idea if he can handle.

Actually I saw him play well at CM, CAM and RAM for PSG, Betis, Argentina etc in Ligue 1, CL, La Liga, Int football etc. Nothing to do with him scoring, just all to do with the way he played and the skills he possesses.

Not only that but I saw him play well in England, against Sheffield Utd at home. And how can a player adjust and settle if they are never given game time?


But it's good to know that basically what you're getting at is that the manager can never be wrong. So I presume we will never see you moan about line ups, subs, performances etc because the manager must always be right?
 

daryl hannah

Berry Berry Calm
Sep 1, 2014
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We finished the game with Lo Celso, Ndombele, Eriksen, Alli, Son, Kane. Imagine if we'd started with that lot!

With a bit of perseverence, that could be incredible. I think Lo C could do a bit of the defensive work quite happily - He's that good.

Long term you need a proper starting DM option for some games, but that little glimpse was exciting.
 

Nick-TopSpursMan

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Aug 4, 2005
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We finished the game with Lo Celso, Ndombele, Eriksen, Alli, Son, Kane. Imagine if we'd started with that lot!

With a bit of perseverence, that could be incredible. I think Lo C could do a bit of the defensive work quite happily - He's that good.

Long term you need a proper starting DM option for some games, but that little glimpse was exciting.

Indeed.

And no it wouldn't make us unstoppable and unbelievable all of a sudden. We would still have some poor games and get some poor results at times because we are in the middle of trying to rebuild our team.

But surely it makes sense to integrate two fantastic talents, it's not like we have superior options is it?! Surely this would at least allow us to start rebuilding with players who want to be at the club.
 

king26

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2008
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Indeed.

And no it wouldn't make us unstoppable and unbelievable all of a sudden. We would still have some poor games and get some poor results at times because we are in the middle of trying to rebuild our team.

But surely it makes sense to integrate two fantastic talents, it's not like we have superior options is it?! Surely this would at least allow us to start rebuilding with players who want to be at the club.
have to agree
 

Haddock

Captain
Oct 16, 2017
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People tend to forget how long time it takes for foreign players to adapt to the PL. Any specualtion regarding his quality (... especially as he's hardly played) or wether he'll be here next season is so premature it's ridiculous.
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
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He doesn't need to be direct on the flank when Aurier is permanently up there. He can slot in to help the other CM, who has been left to cover the middle of the park alone because Sissoko has meandered off to right back because Aurier won't/can't defend.

But that is only one part of the game. Yes when we're set in possession and going through a long phase of having the ball an extra playmaker option would probably help and Lucas tucking inside off the flank isn't really ideal in this part of the play. But so far in these early games, and in fact throughout his whole managerial career, Mourinho puts great importance on the turnover/transition/counter and taking full advantage of them - direct running threat who can break forward on either flank in those wide attacker positions. We've seen that in Lucas' goal, Sissoko's goal (interesting it was him who filled in for Lucas last weekend), Kane's goal from the quick throw where Lucas was set away down the flank, etc. It's always been a key part of Jose-ball.
 

Everlasting Seconds

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Jan 9, 2014
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But that is only one part of the game. Yes when we're set in possession and going through a long phase of having the ball an extra playmaker option would probably help and Lucas tucking inside off the flank isn't really ideal in this part of the play. But so far in these early games, and in fact throughout his whole managerial career, Mourinho puts great importance on the turnover/transition/counter and taking full advantage of them - direct running threat who can break forward on either flank in those wide attacker positions. We've seen that in Lucas' goal, Sissoko's goal (interesting it was him who filled in for Lucas last weekend), Kane's goal from the quick throw where Lucas was set away down the flank, etc. It's always been a key part of Jose-ball.
I agree with this. And I like the underlying idea, other may very well not. The underlying rationale is to avoid spending much in-game time getting organised and reorganised. Getting organised in defence, then getting organised in attack, then getting reorganised again. The idea of Mourinho is to avoid the need to spend all these minutes organising the team. Rather the time should be spent to swiftly try to create and recreate (attacks, chances and goals), and to exploit those moments in the match when it can be done instantly. I think it's a good underlying idea.

At the same time the need for smart, good ballers is evident, but that's about those few who are adept at moving the ball quickly or responding to a ball movement quickly. Players can be very, very good for long spells keeping the ball, but if they can't move the ball within the team accurately and promptly they will find it hard. For sure certain flair players who love having much time with the ball in their feet will not enjoy playing for Mourinho.
 

Ronwol196061

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Apr 9, 2018
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I agree with this. And I like the underlying idea, other may very well not. The underlying rationale is to avoid spending much in-game time getting organised and reorganised. Getting organised in defence, then getting organised in attack, then getting reorganised again. The idea of Mourinho is to avoid the need to spend all these minutes organising the team. Rather the time should be spent to swiftly try to create and recreate (attacks, chances and goals), and to exploit those moments in the match when it can be done instantly. I think it's a good underlying idea.

At the same time the need for smart, good ballers is evident, but that's about those few who are adept at moving the ball quickly or responding to a ball movement quickly. Players can be very, very good for long spells keeping the ball, but if they can't move the ball within the team accurately and promptly they will find it hard. For sure certain flair players who love having much time with the ball in their feet will not enjoy playing for Mourinho.

One is moving the ball the other is stopping the ball.We are heavy with attacking players and light in defence.
If we are on a budget would we buy Lo Celso or a Quality DM?
 

Everlasting Seconds

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Jan 9, 2014
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One is moving the ball the other is stopping the ball.We are heavy with attacking players and light in defence.
If we are on a budget would we buy Lo Celso or a Quality DM?
That's true. I'm not saying I believe this is happening behind closed doors, but I do see that if the Lo Celso deal gets cancelled, that frees up at the very least enough for most of the cost of a new DM. There are some options out there who don't need to cost loads, and if I were in charge, I'd spend some time doing that very calculation.
 

synththfc

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Aug 24, 2017
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nice to see everyone in here is giving him a fair go after only playing 370 or so mins :whistle:

Going by Mourinho's midfield comments in today's presser, he won't be playing in the two in front of the defense this season (if ever).
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
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I think you are badly overestimating managers, they make plenty of whopping bad decisions.

In this case though you are wrong anyway mate.

Poch was starting to use Lo Celso, he picked him in both of his last 2 games in charge and you could see he was starting to trust that he was ready. Lo Celso played 86 mins against Red Star and 90 mins against Sheffield Utd.

Mourinho is almost certainly picking Eriksen because he knows him and wanted him at Utd. Mourinho's judgement on players is extremely questionable too, given how he let both De Bruyne and Salah go from Chelsea!!!

Did he play against Sheffield united? I was at the game and I can’t even remember him!

I’d like him given game time but I’ll be surprised if he is. Especially after listening to Mourinho’s press conference today. I just don’t see where he fits in.
 

Everlasting Seconds

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Jan 9, 2014
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I don't think anybody has judged Lo Celso as a player in a negative sense, nor that the discussion is about whether or not he is *good*.
The discussion that at least I'm having is about whether or not he *should play* (now/for Tottenham/under Mourinho). And then there is a subrelated point that I'll get to.

Just as there is no way to say that he is a poor player (he probably isn't), there is equally no way to say that he is the player that must start (now).I struggle very much with understanding the rationale behind the blind assessment of a player that's obviously physically still developing, mentally maybe also, who is new to PL footie and had a hip injury for most of the start of the season, who has played very little this season and when he has played hasn't showed very much more ability than those who are in the starting line up.

Of less urgency but none the less important, is also looking ahead and thinking that there are one or two big wholes in the squad. There are other weaknesses but those aside for now. The transfer budget for now is limited. Here's a guy that may never be the best fit for this specific head coach, and who cannot be used in the position where we have the most need for reinforcements. The fee for him is agreed but not in fact paid. In that context, as a new head coach you have to stop and ask your self, is it in the best interest of the club, given how we want to play, to commit those funds, or are they better spent elsewhere.
 

Cochise

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Aug 8, 2019
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If we are playing with a back three, do our two deep midfielders have to be a pair made from a #6 and #8?

Could two #8's do the job and if so could GLC function with N'Dombele? Certainly in games against bus parkers it could work, but in tough games those two would have to be very well drilled with the perfect mix of brains and aggression.
 

Twizzle

The Alpha Male
May 25, 2008
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People tend to forget how long time it takes for foreign players to adapt to the PL. Any specualtion regarding his quality (... especially as he's hardly played) or wether he'll be here next season is so premature it's ridiculous.

he was playing very well under Poch, he didn't deserve to be dropped for the likes of Sissy
 

McFlash

In the corner, eating crayons.
Oct 19, 2005
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I'm sure he'll get his chance soon.
He's a quality player but is still finding his feet in this team/league/country.
I don't see any need to be panicking or jumping to conclusions yet.
 

hutchiniho

Top Cat
Mar 19, 2006
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One is moving the ball the other is stopping the ball.We are heavy with attacking players and light in defence.
If we are on a budget would we buy Lo Celso or a Quality DM?

I agree and was going to say the same thing. Right now I could easily see us not taking up our option to buy.
Thought it interesting this week that Betis reported the buy figure at less than £30m

Seems a good price if true.
Hopefully see some GLC over the busy Christmas fixtures
 

Ronwol196061

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Apr 9, 2018
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I agree and was going to say the same thing. Right now I could easily see us not taking up our option to buy.
Thought it interesting this week that Betis reported the buy figure at less than £30m

Seems a good price if true.
Hopefully see some GLC over the busy Christmas fixtures
It cant hurt because if LC can hit good passes we will need that
Still a top notch DM would do the trick and one more CB (that can also play RB)
 

Ronwol196061

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2018
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If we are playing with a back three, do our two deep midfielders have to be a pair made from a #6 and #8?

Could two #8's do the job and if so could GLC function with N'Dombele? Certainly in games against bus parkers it could work, but in tough games those two would have to be very well drilled with the perfect mix of brains and aggression.

It's all good if the DM is great
 
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