Player Watch: Giovani Lo Celso

[Snuzzy]

His contract expires next year, it has to be a sale.

We loaned Perisic, Dier and Sessegnon last year.

 

[EQP]

We loaned Perisic, Dier and Sessegnon last year.

We didn't loan Sessgnon at all - he left on a free transfer. https://www.transfermarkt.us/ryan-sessegnon/transfers/spieler/392775

Perisic was essentially done as a favor to Hadjuk for us signing Vuskovic. https://cartilagefreecaptain.sbnati...rs-ivan-perisic-hajduk-split-january-transfer

Tportal suggests that Perisic returning to Hajduk Split might be part of the deal to bring Vuskovic to North London, with Spurs paying a €12m transfer fee “less the value of Ivan Perisic” which is hinted at about €2.5m.

Dier, left in January with 6 months left, for a nominal loan fee - not really the same exact situation but I can see why you'd add it.

 

[Booney]

Bargain price with a contract running down?

Exactly the kind of player that Levy would be sniffing around. Unfortunately for him, we already own him.

 

[kd2000]

With a year left on his contract I wouldnt be surprised to see him leave on loan with the other club picking up all of his wages and us trousering something like £5mil in a loan fee.

 

[smallsnc]

That's your incorrect interpretation. If you're somehow understanding something else from the words I am writing there's not an awful lot I can do to help.

Very simply, clubs do not like strengthening rivals and will avoid it where possible

I just don't think he would "strengthen" Vilka because I don't think he will be on the pitch enough.

You feel he will help them and don't want to sell because of it. I would agree with you if I thought he would make them better over the whole season.

 

[UncleBuck]

With a year left on his contract I wouldnt be surprised to see him leave on loan with the other club picking up all of his wages and us trousering something like £5mil in a loan fee.

He’s on £70k a week so if we can get someone to take him on for a £5m loan fee plus wages I think it’ll be as good as we can get unfortunately.
Just need shot of him

 

[Cinemattis]

A player that was bought specifically for Poch at the time after we had missed out on Bruno Fernandes at the 11th hour. Interestingly N'Dombele bought for the same manager from his direct request

Might very well be that I remember incorrectly or that I misunderstood the situation at the time, but wasn’t it rather that …

We had agreed with both player and club (re Bruno), but Poch preferred GLC over Bruno?

Fernandes signed for ManUtd the following January. And IIRC he’s actually said publicly that he thought he was going to us in the summer - when we signed GLC. I recall quite the debate here over who was the better player of the two - as they both had had bad spells in other leagues (GLC for PSG and BF in Serie A?), previous to the successful season they both had experienced.

Or am I totally off the mark?

 

[DannyNZ]

Might very well be that I remember incorrectly or that I misunderstood the situation at the time, but wasn’t it rather that …

We had agreed with both player and club (re Bruno), but Poch preferred GLC over Bruno?

Fernandes signed for ManUtd the following January. And IIRC he’s actually said publicly that he thought he was going to us in the summer - when we signed GLC. I recall quite the debate here over who was the better player of the two - as they both had had bad spells in other leagues (GLC for PSG and BF in Serie A?), previous to the successful season they both had experienced.

Or am I totally off the mark?

Agree thought Poch opted for GLC over Bruno.

 

[JJetset]

Might very well be that I remember incorrectly or that I misunderstood the situation at the time, but wasn’t it rather that …

We had agreed with both player and club (re Bruno), but Poch preferred GLC over Bruno?

Fernandes signed for ManUtd the following January. And IIRC he’s actually said publicly that he thought he was going to us in the summer - when we signed GLC. I recall quite the debate here over who was the better player of the two - as they both had had bad spells in other leagues (GLC for PSG and BF in Serie A?), previous to the successful season they both had experienced.

Or am I totally off the mark?

No as i know this one for a fact it was very emotional for a young Bruno, their chairman pulled the deal after we had agreed everything leaving him in tears and begging to be let go. Their chairman 'may' have gone a better incentive or deal from elsewhere to keep him for a few more months before selling to United...... I remember he was absolutely heartbroken. We were blindsided. So once that fell over we got Poch, GLC on his request. There are loads of these going on and personally the Suarez one was more upsetting but hey ho !

 

[Finchyid]

His contract expires next year, it has to be a sale.

You can still have loan..just have a large fee

 

[C0YS]

Might very well be that I remember incorrectly or that I misunderstood the situation at the time, but wasn’t it rather that …

We had agreed with both player and club (re Bruno), but Poch preferred GLC over Bruno?

Fernandes signed for ManUtd the following January. And IIRC he’s actually said publicly that he thought he was going to us in the summer - when we signed GLC. I recall quite the debate here over who was the better player of the two - as they both had had bad spells in other leagues (GLC for PSG and BF in Serie A?), previous to the successful season they both had experienced.

Or am I totally off the mark?

Lo Cleso was fine for PSG, but there was indeed a debate. Most thought Lo Celso looked better mind. Fernandes was also fine in Serie A. They were both around 21/22 before PSG and Italy respectively. The criticism of Bruno was that he seemed to score, often scrapy goals and he was generally considered less complete than Lo Celso. I think it's because people were assuming that we were looking at two primary attacking midfielders and Bruno can't dribble, so when looking at highlights Lo Celso looked a bit better.

I mean, Lo Celso can theoretically do many things very well (except move the ball on quickly). It's a bit sad that his career has been defined by injuries and a lack of consistancy. Because he is a very talented player but he is an odd one. I still don't really know what position he is meant to play. It isn't even a case that he is ill suited to the PL, he should be theoretically very well suited, he is a bit tenacious, he isn't lightweight by any means, but I dunno something just hasn't really worked for him, and whenever it looked like it might he got injured.

Still, better signing than Ndombele. But taking me back to that summer is quite funny. We clearly needed to refresh the squad, after many windows not doing so, and we had 3 major signings Ndombele, Sessegnon and Lo Celso. None of them worked, but the excitment, particularly over Ndombele, was incredible. But a great example that you can be great at football but not a great football player. You technical abilities are limited by your basic understanding of the game.

I think had Poch stayed in charge the three signings may have gone differently. Probably not but you never know. I think Lo Celso may have worked, Sess has been so unlucky with injuries that its not likely but I reckon he could have done a danny rose on him. Ndombele, what a waste. Should be a worldbeater, should be phenomenal, but Poch was very quick to work out there was a problem with him with fans being desperate to see him in a deeper position even under mourinho. If he could reach him, possibly? maybe? Unlikely.. But I still get angry at Jose for selling Juan Foyth who was quite clearly being primed for RB and would have saved us a lot of money and failed transfers to actually help develop him in that role. (I do hope he recovers from his injuries because on his day one of the best RBs in La Liga)

Out of the three signings Lo Celso was the best one in the end, and the one which I had the most hope in. He isn't built for Ange's style of football, Ange didn't trust him even when he got a bit of form, but yeah it's a shame we ended with three duds.

 

[DannyNZ]

Lo Cleso was fine for PSG, but there was indeed a debate. Most thought Lo Celso looked better mind. Fernandes was also fine in Serie A. They were both around 21/22 before PSG and Italy respectively. The criticism of Bruno was that he seemed to score, often scrapy goals and he was generally considered less complete than Lo Celso. I think it's because people were assuming that we were looking at two primary attacking midfielders and Bruno can't dribble, so when looking at highlights Lo Celso looked a bit better.

I mean, Lo Celso can theoretically do many things very well (except move the ball on quickly). It's a bit sad that his career has been defined by injuries and a lack of consistancy. Because he is a very talented player but he is an odd one. I still don't really know what position he is meant to play. It isn't even a case that he is ill suited to the PL, he should be theoretically very well suited, he is a bit tenacious, he isn't lightweight by any means, but I dunno something just hasn't really worked for him, and whenever it looked like it might he got injured.

Still, better signing than Ndombele. But taking me back to that summer is quite funny. We clearly needed to refresh the squad, after many windows not doing so, and we had 3 major signings Ndombele, Sessegnon and Lo Celso. None of them worked, but the excitment, particularly over Ndombele, was incredible. But a great example that you can be great at football but not a great football player. You technical abilities are limited by your basic understanding of the game.

I think had Poch stayed in charge the three signings may have gone differently. Probably not but you never know. I think Lo Celso may have worked, Sess has been so unlucky with injuries that its not likely but I reckon he could have done a danny rose on him. Ndombele, what a waste. Should be a worldbeater, should be phenomenal, but Poch was very quick to work out there was a problem with him with fans being desperate to see him in a deeper position even under mourinho. If he could reach him, possibly? maybe? Unlikely.. But I still get angry at Jose for selling Juan Foyth who was quite clearly being primed for RB and would have saved us a lot of money and failed transfers to actually help develop him in that role. (I do hope he recovers from his injuries because on his day one of the best RBs in La Liga)

Out of the three signings Lo Celso was the best one in the end, and the one which I had the most hope in. He isn't built for Ange's style of football, Ange didn't trust him even when he got a bit of form, but yeah it's a shame we ended with three duds.

Strangely I think he was well suited to Ange’s style of football, generally looking to pass progressively and more than capable of pass and move. While Madds was out he was turning in better stats and ended the season similarly. At some stage Ange lost faith in him even though when given a cameo he often looked our most capable midfielder, Ange showed great faith in Madds who was not only poor but clearly couldn’t press while not offering GLC any real chances and I think as a team that was a poor call while we delivered a fairly turgid close to the season.

 

[C0YS]

Strangely I think he was well suited to Ange’s style of football, generally looking to pass progressively and more than capable of pass and move. While Madds was out he was turning in better stats and ended the season similarly. At some stage Ange lost faith in him even though when given a cameo he often looked our most capable midfielder, Ange showed great faith in Madds who was not only poor but clearly couldn’t press while not offering GLC any real chances and I think as a team that was a poor call while we delivered a fairly turgid close to the season.

He's very slow releasing the ball. Very slow. It's always the thing that annoys me the most.

But yeah, exactly he made an impact but it didn't matter. Ange clearly saw him as an odd fit. Mads form was poor but he is a good fit, he moves the ball quickly. Ange really cares about that ball being moved quickly, that is for sure, don't let the opposition rest, you gotta keep moving that ball quickly because the spaces will open up.

Do you play the inform player that can change you the game but you know can't play your system, or do you play the player who you know is capable of playing that system but is off form. I think Ange picks the latter every time. System based managers are stubborn as fuck, they will drop you after scoring a hattrick if getting that hattrick meant you ignoring the system.

 

[sidford]

No as i know this one for a fact it was very emotional for a young Bruno, their chairman pulled the deal after we had agreed everything leaving him in tears and begging to be let go. Their chairman 'may' have gone a better incentive or deal from elsewhere to keep him for a few more months before selling to United...... I remember he was absolutely heartbroken. We were blindsided. So once that fell over we got Poch, GLC on his request. There are loads of these going on and personally the Suarez one was more upsetting but hey ho !

Anyone know the story re Suarez that JJ is talking about here?? I thought we had looked at him after recommendations from Jol but never pursued it too heavily but judging by JJ above we must have been close at some stage. Even did a Google search this morning and all can find is 'arry saying he was one we missed out on but no real details on it. Plus 'arry isn't the most reliable for bits like that he's known for not quite telling the full truth like re Gareth Bale and Nottingham forest

 

[djhotspur]

No as i know this one for a fact it was very emotional for a young Bruno, their chairman pulled the deal after we had agreed everything leaving him in tears and begging to be let go. Their chairman 'may' have gone a better incentive or deal from elsewhere to keep him for a few more months before selling to United...... I remember he was absolutely heartbroken. We were blindsided. So once that fell over we got Poch, GLC on his request. There are loads of these going on and personally the Suarez one was more upsetting but hey ho !

Good to hear from you!

 

[nico97531]

Anyone know the story re Suarez that JJ is talking about here?? I thought we had looked at him after recommendations from Jol but never pursued it too heavily but judging by JJ above we must have been close at some stage. Even did a Google search this morning and all can find is 'arry saying he was one we missed out on but no real details on it. Plus 'arry isn't the most reliable for bits like that he's known for not quite telling the full truth like re Gareth Bale and Nottingham forest

There were rumors after he had went to Liverpool that we were close, the player also wanted to join but Harry vetoed the deal as he didn’t think he’s good enough.

 

[JJetset]

There were rumors after he had went to Liverpool that we were close, the player also wanted to join but Harry vetoed the deal as he didn’t think he’s good enough.

David Moyes who was watching him as well said he’s not good enough to H and this is after Les and Tim had watched him many times and recommended !!

 

[felmani26]

David Moyes who was watching him as well said he’s not good enough to H and this is after Les and Tim had watched him many times and recommended !!

Thanks Moyesy....

Ultimately though, a shit call from H - these will undoubtedly happen in management but you just don't hear as publically as this particular instance which is routinely brought up.

 

[Trix]

With a year left on his contract I wouldnt be surprised to see him leave on loan with the other club picking up all of his wages and us trousering something like £5mil in a loan fee.

Then you might as well sell him for £5mil.

 

[nico97531]

He's very slow releasing the ball. Very slow. It's always the thing that annoys me the most.

But yeah, exactly he made an impact but it didn't matter. Ange clearly saw him as an odd fit. Mads form was poor but he is a good fit, he moves the ball quickly. Ange really cares about that ball being moved quickly, that is for sure, don't let the opposition rest, you gotta keep moving that ball quickly because the spaces will open up.

Do you play the inform player that can change you the game but you know can't play your system, or do you play the player who you know is capable of playing that system but is off form. I think Ange picks the latter every time. System based managers are stubborn as fuck, they will drop you after scoring a hattrick if getting that hattrick meant you ignoring the system.

I am not so sure about this, the one thing a lot of us were complaining re Maddison after he s returned from injury was that he’s holding onto the ball and doing pointless turns in the middle of the park before passing it back to the CBs, holding up the play unnecessarily. There’s definitely reasons as to why Ange doesn’t like Lo celso but don’t think holding on to the ball and slowing play down is one of them.