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Player Watch Player Watch: Destiny Udogie

djhotspur

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2021
6,941
16,190
Also will add that he was solid, but that is one of the worst Italian teams I’ve seen in a long time. Udogie will likely be at 100 caps by 26 at this rate, as they don’t have anyone better in that position.
They have two very good lwbs though. So depends how they wanna play
 
Dec 11, 2006
11
51
"If he (Mtawarira obviously) thought his nickname was racist, Springbok fans and commentators wouldn't have called him it" isn't the same thing as "it can't be racist if South Africans were calling him it". No doubt, spurs9 knows that already.

Personally, I hate racism. I don't think Mtawarira's nickname is racist but that's an individual case. Unfortunately, racism is alive and well all over the world, even if there are lots of people who abhor it. But that's blindingly obvious, of course.
 
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punkisback

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2004
4,440
7,330
"If he (Mtawarira obviously) thought his nickname was racist, Springbok fans and commentators wouldn't have called him it" isn't the same thing as "it can't be racist if South Africans were calling him it". No doubt, spurs9 knows that already.

Personally, I hate racism. I don't think Mtawarira's nickname is racist but that's an individual case. Unfortunately, racism is alive and well all over the world, even if there are lots of people who abhor it. But that's blindingly obvious, of course.
I think people need to distinguish between institutional racism and obviously using words to hurt people. People don’t understand that things such as this do hurt people even if no intent was meant. Or do affect negative stereotypes of people. Liverpool fans used to sing that Divock had a large penis, and they used to say that this was complimentary! However it was based on institutional racism and stereotypes. Just like the r use of beast for black footballers to reduce their skills to the physical. For example, Luke shaw is fast, 2CM shorter than Udogie but probably 10kg heavier but you wouldn’t have him called beast as often as Udogie who probably is a better technician than him.
You have to think that being critiqued for following patterns of institutional racism or stereotyping doesn’t mean you are a full on chelsea headhunter racist, you’re most definitely not racist but the past eras of education and stereotyping have affected the way we all see each other. I’m just asking people to take that into consideration rather than being defensive. Even I as a person of colour can sometimes slip into patterns of institutional racism.
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
20,144
337,058
I think people need to distinguish between institutional racism and obviously using words to hurt people. People don’t understand that things such as this do hurt people even if no intent was meant. Or do affect negative stereotypes of people. Liverpool fans used to sing that Divock had a large penis, and they used to say that this was complimentary! However it was based on institutional racism and stereotypes. Just like the r use of beast for black footballers to reduce their skills to the physical. For example, Luke shaw is fast, 2CM shorter than Udogie but probably 10kg heavier but you wouldn’t have him called beast as often as Udogie who probably is a better technician than him.
You have to think that being critiqued for following patterns of institutional racism or stereotyping doesn’t mean you are a full on chelsea headhunter racist, you’re most definitely not racist but the past eras of education and stereotyping have affected the way we all see each other. I’m just asking people to take that into consideration rather than being defensive. Even I as a person of colour can sometimes slip into patterns of institutional racism.
I'm not even sure this is a case of institutional racism if I'm honest. As I've said in previous posts I think younger people are throwing this term around all over the place to describe any player regardless of colour that is tearing it up..... "He's a beast" or "beast mode". As I have said in previous posts, words like people evolve and what they meant 30 years ago just don't mean the same thing to younger generations, just remember how "bad" meant "good" in the 80's. I'd be generally interested to know what other young black people think of this and how they see the word because from what my son tells me they all use this word to describe each other when they have good games and his team is a mix of ethnicities. I do wonder if this isn't an age thing as much as it is a race thing.
 

McFlash

Without doubt the dumbest & most clueless member.
Oct 19, 2005
13,304
48,196
Fuck me, everyone loves to be offended these days, or offended on behalf of others.
Ridiculous that this thread is now filled with arguing and even insults because someone clearly used the term "beast" as a compliment.
In a world where real and dangerous racism is rife, trying to find fault in something like this is, if I'm honest, all rather pathetic.

"To be offended is a choice we make - it is not a condition inflicted or imposed upon us by someone or something else".
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
43,019
80,065
I think people need to distinguish between institutional racism and obviously using words to hurt people. People don’t understand that things such as this do hurt people even if no intent was meant. Or do affect negative stereotypes of people. Liverpool fans used to sing that Divock had a large penis, and they used to say that this was complimentary! However it was based on institutional racism and stereotypes. Just like the r use of beast for black footballers to reduce their skills to the physical. For example, Luke shaw is fast, 2CM shorter than Udogie but probably 10kg heavier but you wouldn’t have him called beast as often as Udogie who probably is a better technician than him.
You have to think that being critiqued for following patterns of institutional racism or stereotyping doesn’t mean you are a full on chelsea headhunter racist, you’re most definitely not racist but the past eras of education and stereotyping have affected the way we all see each other. I’m just asking people to take that into consideration rather than being defensive. Even I as a person of colour can sometimes slip into patterns of institutional racism.
Issue is that the word beast is not a stereotype and has nothing to do with race
As I posted a couple pages back the word has been used for many of our players regardless of race
 

McFlash

Without doubt the dumbest & most clueless member.
Oct 19, 2005
13,304
48,196
Issue is that the word beast is not a stereotype and has nothing to do with race
As I posted a couple pages back the word has been used for many of our players regardless of race
Exactly and I'd probably struggle to find a better word to describe Romero, for example.
I think it's a sad world where people's first reaction is "racism!".
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
55,590
101,749
Exactly and I'd probably struggle to find a better word to describe Romero, for example.
I think it's a sad world where people's first reaction is "racism!".

That's the problem though, they're looking for shit that isn't there....and they know its not delivered with 'that' intent either.

Its fucking sad imo.
 

Sierragls

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2014
55
273
Has anyone watch KSI’s YouTube ‘beast players’ that is probably where it originates from, nothing racist to do with it at all,
 

punkisback

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2004
4,440
7,330
Fuck me, everyone loves to be offended these days, or offended on behalf of others.
Ridiculous that this thread is now filled with arguing and even insults because someone clearly used the term "beast" as a compliment.
In a world where real and dangerous racism is rife, trying to find fault in something like this is, if I'm honest, all rather pathetic.

"To be offended is a choice we make - it is not a condition inflicted or imposed upon us by someone or something else".
It’s not about offence mate, if people stereotype a demographic via a certain lens they cannot see positive traits outside that stereotype. For example why do you think so many black players who played in the same generation with Lampard and Gerrard aren’t in a management? Do you think out of the hundreds that played in the top 2 flights that none of them were good enough to get a first team job?
see that is when stereotypes actually affect real life.
secondly again commenting on stereotypes of Black people, specifically black women that have been perpetuated possibly even meant to be seen as compliments or left over from past negative overt racism. Black women are apparently seen as more hardy and pain resistant than other women and are often subconsciously given less pain medication during Labour and childbirth. Then if you look at childbirth mortality rates between black women and white British in this country it’s 5x more for black women I believe. This is when stereotypes that don’t come from overt racism seriously affect you. Yes this perpetuating of beast may be a compliment but it also means that perhaps someone who’s not a spurs fan may not see Udogie through the lens we see him through, but it can also mean that pundits, managers etc also can incorrectly subconsciously have the view that he lacks intelligence and leadership and can not be captain material. Them on the flip side again the dark undercurrent of stereotypes on black physicality is the high mortality rate of black women in childbirth and that is to me a serious racist issue.
happy to take this elsewhere on general if anyone wants to?
 

Stav

Futures, yeah?
Feb 2, 2006
138
215
It’s not about offence mate, if people stereotype a demographic via a certain lens they cannot see positive traits outside that stereotype. For example why do you think so many black players who played in the same generation with Lampard and Gerrard aren’t in a management? Do you think out of the hundreds that played in the top 2 flights that none of them were good enough to get a first team job?
see that is when stereotypes actually affect real life.
secondly again commenting on stereotypes of Black people, specifically black women that have been perpetuated possibly even meant to be seen as compliments or left over from past negative overt racism. Black women are apparently seen as more hardy and pain resistant than other women and are often subconsciously given less pain medication during Labour and childbirth. Then if you look at childbirth mortality rates between black women and white British in this country it’s 5x more for black women I believe. This is when stereotypes that don’t come from overt racism seriously affect you. Yes this perpetuating of beast may be a compliment but it also means that perhaps someone who’s not a spurs fan may not see Udogie through the lens we see him through, but it can also mean that pundits, managers etc also can incorrectly subconsciously have the view that he lacks intelligence and leadership and can not be captain material. Them on the flip side again the dark undercurrent of stereotypes on black physicality is the high mortality rate of black women in childbirth and that is to me a serious racist issue.
happy to take this elsewhere on general if anyone wants to?
Serious question: How do you think stereotypes are formed?
 

easley91

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
19,536
56,048
Watched the latest Wrexham episode and Ryan Reynolds described someone as a beast. Who was it you ask? Ben Foster.

It's definitely partly an age thing, but also what you grew up around.

Akinfenwa literally has his own gimmick of being the beast and has a workout plan called beast mode. If he thought it was racist I doubt he' have a whole business model based on the word..
 
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