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Dele Alli at Everton

Timberwolf

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2008
10,328
50,217
Of all the clubs to come in for him, PSG is one you'd prefer. Only made one big signing this summer and that was Icardi who was already on loan. Could get good money from them.
 

doctor stefan Freud

the tired tread of sad biology
Sep 2, 2013
15,170
72,169
It’s time to offload and reinvest. Dele just doesn’t fit our style of play. Look at Kane this afternoon- utterly clinical in assisting Son, and this is needed in a counterattacking based team. Dele doesn’t have the vision or technique to do that. He’s a much better second striker type CAM for a team playing possession based football. It’s sad but inevitable and I wish him the best but we need to move on
 

DJS

A hoonter must hoont
Dec 9, 2006
31,261
21,760
Be ridiculous to let him go! I think lingard is lazy journalism
As the fact is that Jose keeps talking about balanced squad and having too many att mids so if he goes we’d buy a different position. Lucas for me would be the sacrifice but there you go.

I would never in a million years swap him for Lingard.

In fact I would never in a million years sign Lingard and might have to break into the training ground and nut Jose if he does.
 

delawarespur

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
2,371
13,361
I would never in a million years swap him for Lingard.

In fact I would never in a million years sign Lingard and might have to break into the training ground and nut Jose if he does.
If selling dele is to make room for lingard, I’m breaking stuff in my house. He’s dele but without the goals and assists. 30 mil? Fuck me, I’d be furious beyond belief.
 

Timberwolf

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2008
10,328
50,217
I get what the problem is.

Dele has always been a 'game winner' type player. He scores game winning goals. He doesn't really battle for the ball in midfield, he isn't really a creator, he's your "striker in midfield" type.

Issue is that he's not been consistent enough for years now, so...
- He's not good enough to be a forward, so he's not getting in ahead of Kane.
- Do you play him ahead of Son? No.
- Do you play him ahead of Bale? No.
- Does he offer anything that Bergwijn or Moura don't? No - he's no wide player tbh.
- Does he offer the creative magic of GLC or TN? No.
- Does he offer the aggression and pressure of Lamela? Not really no. No where near enough of a "win at all costs" player, which is quintessential Erik
- Is he good enough to sit in front of the back four? As we saw often for England, no.


So I can see how he's just a bit... redundant now. Harsh but he just doesn't really fit in without affecting the other 10 players in the lineup tbh. That wasn't the case when he was 21 or 22, but he has gone a bit mild since then.
That's the 'puzzle' Jose was talking about. Dele simply doesn't work unless you build the entire team around him.

I think Jose came in believing Dele was one of the keys to our success going forward and has been bending over backwards to fit him into the team and get the best out of him. I get the feeling that substitution against Everton and his subsequent reaction may have been the last straw.

Suddenly Dele is left out of 2 squads and we've switched to a 4-3-3. Seems like a big turning point to me.

EDIT: If we sell him and buy fucking Lingard though... I have no words.
 

George94

George
Feb 1, 2015
3,661
19,454
If selling dele is to make room for lingard, I’m breaking stuff in my house. He’s dele but without the goals and assists. 30 mil? Fuck me, I’d be furious beyond belief.

Lingard is also 28 years old in December...

Dele isn't 25 until April, so if we're selling him, we should be getting a least £40+ for him with a sell on clause.

Fuck me, if the likes of Danny Ings, Ismalla Sarr, Dwight McNeil (who I actually rate) are getting quoted at £40m...
 

Neon_Knight_

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2011
3,975
6,608
So Dele is our Pogba then.
A player Mourinho doesn't know how to use or manage, and used as a scapegoat to cover for his own mismanagement.

Wonder if Dele will do what Pogba did, decide to hang around expecting to last longer than the manager.
If we assume Dele has been underperforming (for most of the last 2.5 years) purely because of how he has been utilised / managed, I still don't see how we get the best out of him, without building the team around him (he's not our best player) and significantly changing our system (to something that doesn't suit the rest of the squad). It was an issue for quite a long time under Poch, so outlasting Mourinho is far from a guarantee that things would improve for him under a different manager.

He's most prolific playing as a second striker, but that requires a 4-4-2 / 4-4-1-1 / 4-2-4 / 4-2-3-1 formation, with wide players who hug the sidelines (to pull the opposition out wide and create space in the middle) and drop back to help out defensively (so Alli doesn't need to) - that wouldn't suit Son or Bale. I also don't see how we could play with a CM two that is both creative enough and defensively solid enough - Lo Celso and Ndombele need a bit of freedom, while PEH/Winks/Sissoko aren't going to play the incisive forward passes that we so desperately need.

5-3-2 / 5-2-1-1 would also suit Alli, but would mean omitting Son, Bale, Berwign and Moura (they could only rotate in for Alli).

How would you set the team up with Alli?

The problems I see with utilising Alli where he's best:

Lack of creativity from CM:
Son---Kane---Bale
--------Alli---------
---PEH--Winks/Sissoko-- (2 of those 3 CMs)

Lack of protection for the defence:
Son---Kane---Bale
--------Alli---------
---PEH--Lo Celso/Ndombele (Winks or Sissoko in place of PEH wouldn't help)

Defence badly exposed:
Son---Kane---Bale
--------Alli---------
--Lo Celso--Ndombele--

Son and Bale poorly utilised and massively pissed off:
------Kane--------------
------------Alli----------
Son--PEH--Winks--Bale


If we omit Alli:

Son---Kane---Bale
--Lo Celso/Ndombele-- (incisive forward passes)
--PEH--Winks/Sissoko-- (protection for defence)
 
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WiganSpur

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
15,974
32,682
So Dele is our Pogba then.
A player Mourinho doesn't know how to use or manage, and used as a scapegoat to cover for his own mismanagement.

Wonder if Dele will do what Pogba did, decide to hang around expecting to last longer than the manager.
So Poch mismanaged him as well then in his last 18 months? What’s worried me about Dele is how he’s played under two very different coaches now. I don’t think the problem is the management.
 

Neon_Knight_

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2011
3,975
6,608
That's the 'puzzle' Jose was talking about. Dele simply doesn't work unless you build the entire team around him.

I think Jose came in believing Dele was one of the keys to our success going forward and has been bending over backwards to fit him into the team and get the best out of him. I get the feeling that substitution against Everton and his subsequent reaction may have been the last straw.

Suddenly Dele is left out of 2 squads and we've switched to a 4-3-3. Seems like a big turning point to me.

EDIT: If we sell him and buy fucking Lingard though... I have no words.
Exactly this! (see my post above)

I really wish things had worked out better for him. He has lots of ability and started his career so brightly. I hate to say it, but I can't see much changing for him if he stays. At the right club, in the right system, he could well be scoring 15-20 goals per season be back in the England team.
 

GutBucket

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2013
6,808
11,492
Him and Kane played same position vs Everton, Jose tried Kane alone in that role and more bodies deeper in midfield this time around and it gave us more balance.
 

George94

George
Feb 1, 2015
3,661
19,454
I'm probably one of Dele's biggest supporters on here and think a lot of the criticism he gets is unfair.

However.

If we're going to play 4-3-3 or potentially even 3-4-3, I just don't know where he fits. He's not going to be a winger under Mourinho, and he hasn't really shown any signs of converting into a central midfielder.

I still believe he's a fantastic second striker who will score a lot of goals, but I've gotta be honest with myself and say I don't think that will be at Spurs under Mourinho anymore.

I think Mourinho has tried to fit Dele into the team but has decided he's not going to play traditional a free-roaming number 10 / second striker anymore and instead with 3 more natural central midfielders.
 
D

Deleted member 27995

I'm probably one of Dele's biggest supporters on here and think a lot of the criticism he gets is unfair.

However.

If we're going to play 4-3-3 or potentially even 3-4-3, I just don't know where he fits. He's not going to be a winger under Mourinho, and he hasn't really shown any signs of converting into a central midfielder.

I still believe he's a fantastic second striker who will score a lot of goals, but I've gotta be honest with myself and say I don't think that will be at Spurs under Mourinho anymore.

I think Mourinho has tried to fit Dele into the team but has decided he's not going to play traditional a free-roaming number 10 / second striker anymore and instead with 3 more natural central midfielders.
Excellent post, this is what rebuilds look like, who ever is at the helm.
 

even steven

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2013
233
1,008
As painful as it’d be, watching him rise to fame with us, right now I’d take £50m for him.

I’m just not sure where he fits into the team and he’s been poor for 2 years now.

Reinvest the money (along with others that need moving on) on a top cb, striker and cm and we could genuinely have a squad that could compete on all fronts against the very best teams
 

hellava_tough

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2005
9,429
12,382
£40-50m hopefully but i’d be surprised if someone offers that. We better not replace home with fucking Lingard though. He’s awful.

Yeah, I'd say he'd go to PSG for around that amount, possibly a little higher if there was a payment plan, etc.

If it allows us to spend 50m to 60m on a CM, then I'm all in!!!
 

delawarespur

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
2,371
13,361
I'm probably one of Dele's biggest supporters on here and think a lot of the criticism he gets is unfair.

However.

If we're going to play 4-3-3 or potentially even 3-4-3, I just don't know where he fits. He's not going to be a winger under Mourinho, and he hasn't really shown any signs of converting into a central midfielder.

I still believe he's a fantastic second striker who will score a lot of goals, but I've gotta be honest with myself and say I don't think that will be at Spurs under Mourinho anymore.

I think Mourinho has tried to fit Dele into the team but has decided he's not going to play traditional a free-roaming number 10 / second striker anymore and instead with 3 more natural central midfielders.
Fantastic synopsis. The issue I have and have had in the past is my emotional connection to certain players. My first season watching and supporting spurs was in deles breakthrough in 15/16, and I fell in love with the guy. I have to understand that maybe now would be the best time for all parties to say “time for a fresh start”. I’ll always cherish the memories he gave us if he were to go, but if he stays, still a player who can contribute goals and assists out of nothing, even if he doesn’t fit in our system.
 

George94

George
Feb 1, 2015
3,661
19,454
Excellent post, this is what rebuilds look like, who ever is at the helm.

And it's clear Mourinho isn't going anywhere anytime soon with the backing he's been given this window, so for me it's a real shame, but I just don't see it working out now.

I'm proper annoyed Grealish has signed a new contract at Villa because he would have been a perfect home-grown replacement.
 

chrissivad

Staff
May 20, 2005
51,646
58,072
The problem with selling Dele, it only give a space in the squad for another home grown player. Unless we move someone like Aurier on for Arron's or Lamela for Cantwell ect.
 
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