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Player Watch Player Watch: Brennan Johnson

McFlash

Without doubt the dumbest & most clueless member.
Oct 19, 2005
13,669
49,839
I mean thats not what I had intended to say and I’m sure you understand that. I meant the opposite never reach the level of Saka let alone bale.
Oh, I'd had a long day and I apologise if I misread your post.

I'm not sure if he'll never reach the level of Saka but even if he doesn't, he can still be a very good player.
At least he doesn't scream and limp! 😁
 

0-Tibsy-0

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2012
11,689
45,165
To be honest I don't really see it but I could be wrong. When I compare to some other players in the league around his age, in similar positions (Saka, Palmer, Anthony Gordon, Olise, Doku, Madueke), I see a level of talent that I don't see in Johnson. Really hope I'm wrong and he becomes a world-beater, but I also think it's important to try to be as objective as possible and see things with as little bias as possible. I don't think Johnson will be anything more than a decent midtable winger. I think we need someone a lot better if we hope to compete at the top table.

That's how I see him at the moment too.

But then the stats say something different.

If he can improve his finishing and his one on one dribbling when out wide he could be a very good player. I just don't know if he has the technical ability, dribbling wise, to improve enough to scare a fullback. Just being more positive and aggressive could make him seem more dangerous to a degree though...
 

McFlash

Without doubt the dumbest & most clueless member.
Oct 19, 2005
13,669
49,839
That's how I see him at the moment too.

But then the stats say something different.

If he can improve his finishing and his one on one dribbling when out wide he could be a very good player. I just don't know if he has the technical ability, dribbling wise, to improve enough to scare a fullback. Just being more positive and aggressive could make him seem more dangerous to a degree though...
Watching his season comp someone posted earlier, he does seem to have it in his bag to take people on and beat them, maybe he just needs to gain the confidence to do it more often?
A few times he showed quick feet, or a shift in weight to go round someone, he just needs to be doing it on a regular basis and as you say, a bit more positivity, aggression and confidence will help.
 

easley91

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
19,887
56,774
For a 22 year old coming to a new club, new surroundings, new manager and being thrusted into the starting XI much earlier than probably planned he has done very well. He will only grow, gain confidence and get better.

The price we paid for him probably put some unfair expectation on him in some people's minds. But I couldn't have asked for much more out of him. Once he gets that confidence he has a swagger about him that I enjoy.
 

ItsBoris

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,674
10,969
That's how I see him at the moment too.

But then the stats say something different.

If he can improve his finishing and his one on one dribbling when out wide he could be a very good player. I just don't know if he has the technical ability, dribbling wise, to improve enough to scare a fullback. Just being more positive and aggressive could make him seem more dangerous to a degree though...

I was looking at his stats and they pretty much confirm what I think about him.

What the stats don't tell you is when he loses the ball (because he's not very good at taking players on), it's usually when a number of other players have gotten far forward, and so we tend to be in a very vulnerable shape.
 

Blaugrana

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2013
126
452
Ademola Lookman banging in a hat trick in the Europa final when at Brennan's age he scored 4 in 34 at Fulham, young players really need time and patience to develop.
 

Styopa

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2014
5,979
16,456
Ademola Lookman banging in a hat trick in the Europa final when at Brennan's age he scored 4 in 34 at Fulham, young players really need time and patience to develop.

Look at someone like Salah, who was about 24 when Chelsea sold him. His most productive season up to about the age of 23 was 10 goals/11 assists in the Swiss & Europa League.

I don't mean to say Brennan is going to be as good as Salah, but Chelsea and most other clubs didn't think Salah was going to be as good as Salah, otherwise he wouldn't have moved to Roma for fifteen million Euros in 16/17. That was the same season we spent over thirty million on Sissoko.
 

HarryKane

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2015
162
974
Look at someone like Salah, who was about 24 when Chelsea sold him. His most productive season up to about the age of 23 was 10 goals/11 assists in the Swiss & Europa League.

I don't mean to say Brennan is going to be as good as Salah, but Chelsea and most other clubs didn't think Salah was going to be as good as Salah, otherwise he wouldn't have moved to Roma for fifteen million Euros in 16/17. That was the same season we spent over thirty million on Sissoko.
Tbf a lot of Salah's problems were his finishing and end product which was abysmal. Remember the match vs Basel and he was a menace, he was very good up until the point of end product and then he missed so many chances to do something. They would've been out of sight if he had good end product but he didn't and then lost on penalties. If anything Brennan's the opposite - his positioning and end product are some of his better traits and doesn't impact the game anywhere near as much if he doesn't do that, he's a bit like Dele in that regard

He does deserve another season, let the team get better with more reinforcements, another pre-season, team knows what to do more etc and he could take a good step forward. I still think he's not that CL starter level and about 10 years ago he'd be a £15-20m player, but he's also going to be one of the better wingers the club's had in the last 15 years
 

Ron Burgundy

SC Supporter
Jun 19, 2008
7,992
24,555
Just wondering how his broader stats compare to others in the league? People seem to have access to stats which show what per febrile he would be in vs other wingers. Sorry to ask but can someone post that? Would be genuinely interested to see

I can see him really kicking on next year. Equally, I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t quite either. My feeling is it’s more mental than it is technical, though i doubt he’ll ever be a lethal finisher or a great crosser - he can still be very effective though.

I really want him to succeed
 

newbie

Well-Known Member
Jul 16, 2004
6,253
6,686
Look at someone like Salah, who was about 24 when Chelsea sold him. His most productive season up to about the age of 23 was 10 goals/11 assists in the Swiss & Europa League.

I don't mean to say Brennan is going to be as good as Salah, but Chelsea and most other clubs didn't think Salah was going to be as good as Salah, otherwise he wouldn't have moved to Roma for fifteen million Euros in 16/17. That was the same season we spent over thirty million on Sissoko.

salah was quality at 18 I was gutted he went to Chelsea he ripped us apart playing for basel.
 

Bluto Blutarsky

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2021
17,012
77,638
salah was quality at 18 I was gutted he went to Chelsea he ripped us apart playing for basel.
When Salah was 18 he was still playing in Egypt...

When he was 20 - he played for Basel - he had 7 goals, 7 assists, playing in Switzerland

When Johnson was 20, he had 16 goals, 10 assists playing in the Championship - by all accounts a tougher league than Super League


When Salah jumped up to Chelsea for his age 21 season, he had 2 goals, 1 assist. It was not until his age 23 season - at Roma - that he had a break out season with 14 goals, 6 assists.

Johnson's first season in PL - he was 21 - had 8 goals, 3 assists, and this past year improved to 5 goals, 10 assists.
 

Snarfalicious

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2012
15,917
73,435
When Salah was 18 he was still playing in Egypt...

When he was 20 - he played for Basel - he had 7 goals, 7 assists, playing in Switzerland

When Johnson was 20, he had 16 goals, 10 assists playing in the Championship - by all accounts a tougher league than Super League


When Salah jumped up to Chelsea for his age 21 season, he had 2 goals, 1 assist. It was not until his age 23 season - at Roma - that he had a break out season with 14 goals, 6 assists.

Johnson's first season in PL - he was 21 - had 8 goals, 3 assists, and this past year improved to 5 goals, 10 assists.

If I follow your logic Brennan will be 3x the player Salah is in like 2 years time. In.
 

tevezito

In the cup for Tottingham
Jun 8, 2004
998
1,717
My 18 year old Son loves him & my 16 year old Son thinks he's gash & a waste of money.
I think that sums him up for me, he's very marmite. I'm in my 18 year olds camp if you're interested.
And your 11-year-old son for the crying in your arms tie-break?
 

spurs9

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
12,086
35,227
Why does he need to score 15 goals? He’s not a striker
I think he probably needs around 10 goals and 10 assists in the league a season to have a chance at starting, which he would have got this year if he had matched his xG.

Encouragingly, he slightly bettered his xG in his last 2 seasons at Forest, though one of those was in the Championship.

I don't think he will ever be top tier, but could be a great squad player for us.
 

Bluto Blutarsky

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2021
17,012
77,638
I don't think he will ever be top tier, but could be a great squad player for us.

His xG + xA this year put him 12th overall in the league.

I don't know what constitutes "top tier" but for a 22 yo - that is a pretty good starting point. For example - Johnson's season this year, was ever so slightly better than Son's age 25 season. (20.6 v. 20.4)


I think people tend to measure all players against their peak - and when you are 22, you are still 2-3 years away from your peak season. Again, using Son, his age 22 season was at Leverkusen, and he had 13 goal involvements.

I think there is every reason to expect Johnson to continue to improve, and as we improve the attacking play, I think 20+ goals involvements per season would be "top tier"
 

spurs9

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
12,086
35,227
His xG + xA this year put him 12th overall in the league.

I don't know what constitutes "top tier" but for a 22 yo - that is a pretty good starting point. For example - Johnson's season this year, was ever so slightly better than Son's age 25 season. (20.6 v. 20.4)


I think people tend to measure all players against their peak - and when you are 22, you are still 2-3 years away from your peak season. Again, using Son, his age 22 season was at Leverkusen, and he had 13 goal involvements.

I think there is every reason to expect Johnson to continue to improve, and as we improve the attacking play, I think 20+ goals involvements per season would be "top tier"
xG and xA just mean that what he was expected to get with the opportunities he had and he didn't perform to that xG (though he did slightly out perform his xA). In fact, Calvert-Lewin is the only player in the entire league that under performed their xG more.

Top tier for me, means that if he isn't assisting or scoring in huge numbers, he is also adding to the team by creating moments out of nothing, casing havoc with his dribbling, pressing very well etc, something other than getting on the end of chances he should be scoring and playing low crosses across the box.

I'm not saying he never will, but I haven't seen any evidence that he will either for us or Forest.
 

fecka

Well-Known Member
Jun 24, 2013
2,384
6,626
My gripe with Johnson is that he’s so poor when he’s not scoring. Timid, passive, on the back foot, poor ball manipulation and technique.

I can see potential, and I hope he comes good, but I honestly don’t think he will ever be more than meh.
 

Cochraam

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2015
242
1,047
I think he probably needs around 10 goals and 10 assists in the league a season to have a chance at starting, which he would have got this year if he had matched his xG.

Encouragingly, he slightly bettered his xG in his last 2 seasons at Forest, though one of those was in the Championship.

I don't think he will ever be top tier, but could be a great squad player for us.
I think people have unrealistic expectations of Brennan. According to the linked BBC article, only 44 players have ever had 10+ goals and assists in the same season, but now we are asking Brennan to hit that level to even have a chance at starting? (https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68362882). I mean I get it and I don't mean to parse the language so specifically and I overall agree with what I think is the crux of the post, but I think our expectations of what a good player does can be a little too high. Count me much more in the Bluto camp that I think his production is impressive for a 22yo and a good sign for the future (assuming some continued improvement).

My gripe with Johnson is that he’s so poor when he’s not scoring. Timid, passive, on the back foot, poor ball manipulation and technique.

I can see potential, and I hope he comes good, but I honestly don’t think he will ever be more than meh.
I also think on this point he improved as the season went on. He looked really timid and lost in the nov-dec period but to my eye he was pretty aggressive by the spring, looking to make things happen and like he understood his role (but he could still work on his consistency of application throughout a game).

Overall, I was really happy with Brennan this year and think he did really well for a young player. There are definite areas for improvement and maybe it never all clicks into place meaning he forever stays an "almost" player, but overall I think the signs are encouraging.
 
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