GioW
Well-Known Member
- Aug 22, 2011
- 3,353
- 13,674
He doesn't play regularly?
Player Watch: Brandon Austin
- Thread starter Locotoro
- Start date
He doesn't play regularly?
In which universe has he ever played regularly?
Westmorlandspur
Well-Known Member
- Feb 1, 2013
- 3,665
- 5,940
Has he ever played. NO he has never played a competitive game for us.
He played a couple of games in the MLS 3 years ago and... that's the most recent competitive action he's seen.
Locotoro
Prince of Zamunda
- Sep 2, 2004
- 9,962
- 15,590
- Thread starter
- #66
I'm glad you agree as I this was supposed to have come from youwhilst I agree with everything said, you do get the very late bloomers - emile martinez for example.
Some just need a chance on the right stage and some take that chance....
Its the given of said chance thats the challenge, and being that bright in the spotlight, it takes real balls to take that kind of chance in goal with 20K fans expectations on your shoulders stood right behind you
If this is the case and Austin and Whiteman are their to make up the numbers but not good enough to ever be relied upon I can definitely see a world where a young player would accept that kind of deal but it also somewhat reeks of lack of ambition which I don't think is a good quality to have in the squad. The other issue I have with this is why take up squad registration space with them? Why pick Whiteman instead of Spence for Europe? That makes zero sense to me.
Whiteman and Austin are club trained so didn't take anyone's registration space. We don't have 4 club trained players to make up a 25 man squad. If there were other options I'm sure only 1 of them would've been registered.I'm glad you agree as I this was supposed to have come from you
If this is the case and Austin and Whiteman are their to make up the numbers but not good enough to ever be relied upon I can definitely see a world where a young player would accept that kind of deal but it also somewhat reeks of lack of ambition which I don't think is a good quality to have in the squad. The other issue I have with this is why take up squad registration space with them? Why pick Whiteman instead of Spence for Europe? That makes zero sense to me.
Yeah some of those absolutely no idea, I reckon Trix is more knowledgeable about how it works truth be told, my only experience is dealing with my sons experience in growing up through academy football and finally going professional, since then (June/July time), it’s all been a very different experience footballing wise, my son has ambition, and if he won’t get played at current level, he will drop down to play and show his value, but I have no idea on all the other aspects for our 2 younger, back up keepers, could be onto a good thing training, could have had opportunities to loan, but given false promises, or could just believe that their own ability shines through, either way I doubt any of them lack ambition, and I’m not suggesting it’s the case either, but some players won’t accept going to what they perceive to be a lower placed club, or league too (maybe ego)…I'm glad you agree as I this was supposed to have come from you
If this is the case and Austin and Whiteman are their to make up the numbers but not good enough to ever be relied upon I can definitely see a world where a young player would accept that kind of deal but it also somewhat reeks of lack of ambition which I don't think is a good quality to have in the squad. The other issue I have with this is why take up squad registration space with them? Why pick Whiteman instead of Spence for Europe? That makes zero sense to me.
Locotoro
Prince of Zamunda
- Sep 2, 2004
- 9,962
- 15,590
- Thread starter
- #70
Good point about the club trained issue. I'd completely forgotten that it's club trained and not just association trained.
Still it's a bit of a weird situation that our only club trained options are all in the same GK position and they aren't allegedly even good enough to be relied upon.
It can be, but depends on ability, having a discussion with my lad today after his analysis (which I wish I could share here as gives a massive insight into goalkeeper analysis after games).
he can struggle wirh training due to the other keepers inability to serve well enough, so doesn't feel like he gets enough out of it learning wise, difficult to replicate actual shots for keepers to develop.
The amount of stuff that goes on with keepers is ridiculous, I get why they keep club trained lads on to fill those sessions, suppose it's a minimal risk to have them, as keepers don't often get injured, and probably why such a fuss was made of the ramsgate/raya situation as well.
Locotoro
Prince of Zamunda
- Sep 2, 2004
- 9,962
- 15,590
- Thread starter
- #72
I did a bit of googling and found this really interesting article from the athletic which backs up everything you ( @Shanks ) said.
I guess I didn't quite understand it as my brain was still seeing it as a waste of squad space but it makes more sense if you're thinking about the total development of your goalkeeping department
Apologies for the formatting
I guess I didn't quite understand it as my brain was still seeing it as a waste of squad space but it makes more sense if you're thinking about the total development of your goalkeeping department
Apologies for the formatting
David Seaman could be funny because he was somebody who didn’t want to dive around on the training ground,” says Ian Wright, who scored 185 goals in 288 appearances for Arsenal. “He’d do his easy saves, but sometimes he just couldn’t be bothered and would let in anything that required a bit of effort.”
‘Safe Hands’, as Seaman was known by the fans at Highbury, Arsenal’s home stadium at the time, is the club’s greatest-ever goalkeeper. During his 13 years in north London, he made 564 appearances and won eight major trophies. When Saturday came, Seaman was among the most dependable shot-stoppers in the Premier League, but as evidenced by Wright’s account, he did little more than the bare minimum in training. If Wright, Dennis Bergkamp, Nicolas Anelka, Thierry Henry, or any other great forwards the 75-cap England international faced in training wanted a proper test, they might have had better luck finding it with his No 2.
Backup goalkeepers, or, as has become more common in recent years, the backup to the backup, or even the backup to the backup’s backup, are an essential part of modern squad building. Shortly after England manager Gareth Southgate finalised his squad for Euro 2024, it was announced that Manchester United’s little-used 38-year-old reserve Tom Heaton would join the travelling team as a “training goalkeeper” to support the trio of Jordan Pickford, Aaron Ramsdale and Dean Henderson for the duration of the tournament.
Described by former England captain and current Plymouth Argyle boss Wayne Rooney as a “masterclass” decision by Southgate, Heaton was selected to ensure there was always an adequate number of goalkeepers available in training during England’s stay in Germany, taking the load off first-choice Pickford, who may not have wanted to exert himself fully before a match.
“I am really pleased Tom has agreed to join us in Germany,” Southgate said. “Experience tells us that a tournament can put a lot of demand on our goalkeeping group led by Martyn Margetson. Tom will play an invaluable role on the training pitch supporting Jordan, Aaron and Dean.
“Off the field, as someone we all know well (Heaton has three England caps and was a regular in squads from 2015 to 2019), he will add to the positive environment we are always looking to create. We are grateful to Manchester United for their support in making this happen.”Crucially, Heaton has the temperament and experience to be the ideal candidate for this role. At United, he is behind Andre Onana and Altay Bayindir in the pecking order — failing to register a single minute of senior football last season. He was recruited as a free agent in 2021 after the expiry of his contract with Aston Villa and has only made three appearances for United since.
“From a goalkeeper coach’s perspective, you can do a lot more when you have more goalkeepers,” says Matt Pyzdrowski, a former professional goalkeeper and now goalkeeping analyst for The Athletic. “It can be quite challenging to be effective if you only have two goalkeepers and a goalkeeper coach in training. Everything in coaching now, particularly for goalkeepers, is about trying to replicate game-like situations in training. It’s hard to do that if you only have two goalkeepers plus a goalkeeper coach, but if you have four goalkeepers plus a goalkeeper coach, that makes you five, so you can create more scenarios.
“There’s the load-management part of it, too. Coaches want to limit the training load players get during the week. If you have more numbers and have guys who maybe are just training goalkeepers, they’re the guys who can take the heavy load. Then, especially the guy who’s playing every week, you can consider how they feel daily and if they need to hop off training. With more numbers, it’s not a big problem, whereas, if you look 20 years ago, it was really hard to do that. Clubs now keep a closer eye on the players and their fitness levels — it’s about trying to keep them healthy, because they play so many games during the seasons.”
Outside of what they bring on the training pitch, however, there are three main reasons these deals for reserve ’keepers are happening now more than ever.
The first and most important reason is that elite clubs have more money than ever before.
Between the opening of the transfer market in the middle of June and the July 1 profit and sustainability (PSR) deadline, Newcastle United signed two goalkeepers with Premier League experience, Odysseas Vlachodimos from Nottingham Forest and John Ruddy, who was a free agent after suffering relegation to League One, the third tier of the English game, last season with Birmingham City. Currently, Newcastle have five senior goalkeepers, and while one of them, Martin Dubravka, could depart this summer, they are in the market to add yet another.Given that Ramsdale and David Raya both reached Sunday’s final of the Euros (albeit as backups for England and Spain respectively) so will now be on post-tournament holidays, Arsenal are also keen on bolstering their ranks before they fly to the United States for a pre-season tour that begins with a game in Los Angeles next Wednesday. They have reached an agreement with Ajax of the Netherlands to sign their academy ’keeper Tommy Setford, 18, and have had an opening offer of £50,000 rejected by Wolves for 31-year-old Dan Bentley, their second-choice last season.
Ramsdale is keen to secure a move away from the Emirates to play first-team football again after losing his place to Raya last season but, until a transfer materialises, Arsenal will also have five goalkeepers on their books, providing the Setford and Bentley deals are completed.
“Most clubs at Premier League level are working with five or six goalies at a time,” Adam Sells, a former goalkeeper coach turned FA registered intermediary and founder of Sells Goalkeeper Products, tells The Athletic. “Primarily, that’s the first choice, the competition (the No 2), the third choice, which tends to be an insurance policy with a low salary in the region of £5,000 to £10,000 a week or something like that, and (then) maybe a couple of younger guys.
“The third-choice goalkeepers aren’t typically going to ever play in their own right in the Premier League, but are competent and experienced enough that should something extremely unlikely happen and you lose both of your first-team goalkeepers, they are in the squad and capable of coming on in an emergency and playing over a short period if required.”
Occasionally, Premier League clubs will rue their lack of an insurance option.
One such example was in the 2021-22 season when, following injuries to Alex McCarthy and Fraser Forster, Southampton were without an experienced third option to deputise in their absence. Fortunately, former Manchester City player and Argentina international Willy Caballero was available as a free agent and signed a short-term deal, later extended, and played twice for them in the Premier League.
Hilario proved the value of an experienced third-choice stopper in the 2006-07 season, where, after injuries to Petr Cech and Carlo Cudicini, the Portuguese made 18 appearances for Chelsea. Two years later, he earned a call-up to the Portugal squad while being Cech’s backup for the west London club and won his sole international cap.
Fast forward 30 years, and any starter’s Seaman-style lack of effort on the training pitch would be offset by another four goalkeepers lower down in the pecking order keen to prove themselves.
The economics of the Premier League, particularly for the top clubs, means they can afford to bolster their goalkeeping ranks for little more than training purposes — an unrealistic scenario in Seaman and Wright’s day. Stockpiling goalkeepers is not as prevalent in the lower leagues for financial reasons. In fact, many clubs below the second-tier Championship only have one professional goalkeeper contracted to them and, in some cases, none, with a youth player sitting on the bench. Due to the emergency loan rule, they can recruit a goalkeeper from the Championship if needed, provided their backup has fewer than five league appearances.
Another key reason is to help clubs comply with European and Premier League squad registration rules.
Signed by Manchester City in 2012, Richard Wright is one of the league’s most memorable examples of precisely this. Wright remained on City’s books for four years and never made a first-team appearance before announcing his retirement in 2016 at age 38, but as a player who spent at least three seasons training at a professional club in England or Wales before turning 21, he qualified as “homegrown”. In the Premier League, clubs need at least eight homegrown players out of a named squad of 25.
UEFA has similar regulations but also requires that four of a minimum of eight homegrown players have come through the club’s academy. This not only helps the club but also gives goalkeepers the opportunity to be involved at a higher level, which may not be possible otherwise.
“Tom King, for example, is 29 and is in that role (as third-choice) at Wolves,” says Sells. “The attraction for him, having plied his trade in the bottom two divisions for most of his career, was having the opportunity to train and play at a Premier League club with that level of player, facilities and coaching.“They feel that there’s still a certain amount of self-improvement to come. Even at his age now, if he did it for a year or two more, he may still feel he can push himself up the pecking order or maybe get an unexpected chance to prove himself. He’s developing so much as a player during this period by working with better players every day that he’ll be very well set up for his next challenge.”For City, adding Wright helped them bolster their squad with an experienced player, negating the need to promote someone from the academy to sit on the bench when a loan move elsewhere to gain first-team experience might be better for their development. Scott Carson currently fulfils this role for the reigning Premier League champions at age 38, and Bentley, who was not just developed in England but critically also came through Arsenal’s academy, would help Mikel Arteta’s side in this respect. Finally, in fitting with what has become somewhat of a PSR-dominant transfer window, recruiting goalkeepers with high potential before their transfer valuations could perhaps skyrocket elsewhere is a sensible long-term investment.
“Primarily, clubs are developing players to eventually play in the first team, but the reality is, perhaps only one of them will ultimately be good enough,” Sells says. “For example, Brighton have five goalkeepers on their books, and there won’t be room for all of them. But if a few are sold for £5million or £10m, it makes good sense in terms of PSR, doesn’t it?
“I don’t believe this, but let’s just say, for argument’s sake, that Carl Rushworth or James Beadle (who spent last season out on loan in the Championship at Swansea City and Sheffield Wednesday, respectively, after coming through Brighton’s academy) don’t end up being good enough to play in the Premier League for Brighton. If the club sold them both for £20million, it would give them a lot of scope to go and buy another goalkeeper, based on how PSR works."
Having grown up in the Netherlands as the son of an English father and Dutch mother, Arsenal target Setford does not yet qualify as a homegrown player under the Premier League and UEFA’s rules, despite representing England Under-20s this summer. However, he would sign as an 18-year-old and will turn 21 in his third year at Arsenal, meaning he will then qualify as a homegrown player under UEFA’s current regulations, providing he continues with the London side.
‘Safe Hands’, as Seaman was known by the fans at Highbury, Arsenal’s home stadium at the time, is the club’s greatest-ever goalkeeper. During his 13 years in north London, he made 564 appearances and won eight major trophies. When Saturday came, Seaman was among the most dependable shot-stoppers in the Premier League, but as evidenced by Wright’s account, he did little more than the bare minimum in training. If Wright, Dennis Bergkamp, Nicolas Anelka, Thierry Henry, or any other great forwards the 75-cap England international faced in training wanted a proper test, they might have had better luck finding it with his No 2.
Backup goalkeepers, or, as has become more common in recent years, the backup to the backup, or even the backup to the backup’s backup, are an essential part of modern squad building. Shortly after England manager Gareth Southgate finalised his squad for Euro 2024, it was announced that Manchester United’s little-used 38-year-old reserve Tom Heaton would join the travelling team as a “training goalkeeper” to support the trio of Jordan Pickford, Aaron Ramsdale and Dean Henderson for the duration of the tournament.
Described by former England captain and current Plymouth Argyle boss Wayne Rooney as a “masterclass” decision by Southgate, Heaton was selected to ensure there was always an adequate number of goalkeepers available in training during England’s stay in Germany, taking the load off first-choice Pickford, who may not have wanted to exert himself fully before a match.
“I am really pleased Tom has agreed to join us in Germany,” Southgate said. “Experience tells us that a tournament can put a lot of demand on our goalkeeping group led by Martyn Margetson. Tom will play an invaluable role on the training pitch supporting Jordan, Aaron and Dean.
“Off the field, as someone we all know well (Heaton has three England caps and was a regular in squads from 2015 to 2019), he will add to the positive environment we are always looking to create. We are grateful to Manchester United for their support in making this happen.”Crucially, Heaton has the temperament and experience to be the ideal candidate for this role. At United, he is behind Andre Onana and Altay Bayindir in the pecking order — failing to register a single minute of senior football last season. He was recruited as a free agent in 2021 after the expiry of his contract with Aston Villa and has only made three appearances for United since.
“From a goalkeeper coach’s perspective, you can do a lot more when you have more goalkeepers,” says Matt Pyzdrowski, a former professional goalkeeper and now goalkeeping analyst for The Athletic. “It can be quite challenging to be effective if you only have two goalkeepers and a goalkeeper coach in training. Everything in coaching now, particularly for goalkeepers, is about trying to replicate game-like situations in training. It’s hard to do that if you only have two goalkeepers plus a goalkeeper coach, but if you have four goalkeepers plus a goalkeeper coach, that makes you five, so you can create more scenarios.
“There’s the load-management part of it, too. Coaches want to limit the training load players get during the week. If you have more numbers and have guys who maybe are just training goalkeepers, they’re the guys who can take the heavy load. Then, especially the guy who’s playing every week, you can consider how they feel daily and if they need to hop off training. With more numbers, it’s not a big problem, whereas, if you look 20 years ago, it was really hard to do that. Clubs now keep a closer eye on the players and their fitness levels — it’s about trying to keep them healthy, because they play so many games during the seasons.”
Outside of what they bring on the training pitch, however, there are three main reasons these deals for reserve ’keepers are happening now more than ever.
The first and most important reason is that elite clubs have more money than ever before.
Between the opening of the transfer market in the middle of June and the July 1 profit and sustainability (PSR) deadline, Newcastle United signed two goalkeepers with Premier League experience, Odysseas Vlachodimos from Nottingham Forest and John Ruddy, who was a free agent after suffering relegation to League One, the third tier of the English game, last season with Birmingham City. Currently, Newcastle have five senior goalkeepers, and while one of them, Martin Dubravka, could depart this summer, they are in the market to add yet another.Given that Ramsdale and David Raya both reached Sunday’s final of the Euros (albeit as backups for England and Spain respectively) so will now be on post-tournament holidays, Arsenal are also keen on bolstering their ranks before they fly to the United States for a pre-season tour that begins with a game in Los Angeles next Wednesday. They have reached an agreement with Ajax of the Netherlands to sign their academy ’keeper Tommy Setford, 18, and have had an opening offer of £50,000 rejected by Wolves for 31-year-old Dan Bentley, their second-choice last season.
Ramsdale is keen to secure a move away from the Emirates to play first-team football again after losing his place to Raya last season but, until a transfer materialises, Arsenal will also have five goalkeepers on their books, providing the Setford and Bentley deals are completed.
“Most clubs at Premier League level are working with five or six goalies at a time,” Adam Sells, a former goalkeeper coach turned FA registered intermediary and founder of Sells Goalkeeper Products, tells The Athletic. “Primarily, that’s the first choice, the competition (the No 2), the third choice, which tends to be an insurance policy with a low salary in the region of £5,000 to £10,000 a week or something like that, and (then) maybe a couple of younger guys.
“The third-choice goalkeepers aren’t typically going to ever play in their own right in the Premier League, but are competent and experienced enough that should something extremely unlikely happen and you lose both of your first-team goalkeepers, they are in the squad and capable of coming on in an emergency and playing over a short period if required.”
Occasionally, Premier League clubs will rue their lack of an insurance option.
One such example was in the 2021-22 season when, following injuries to Alex McCarthy and Fraser Forster, Southampton were without an experienced third option to deputise in their absence. Fortunately, former Manchester City player and Argentina international Willy Caballero was available as a free agent and signed a short-term deal, later extended, and played twice for them in the Premier League.
Hilario proved the value of an experienced third-choice stopper in the 2006-07 season, where, after injuries to Petr Cech and Carlo Cudicini, the Portuguese made 18 appearances for Chelsea. Two years later, he earned a call-up to the Portugal squad while being Cech’s backup for the west London club and won his sole international cap.
Fast forward 30 years, and any starter’s Seaman-style lack of effort on the training pitch would be offset by another four goalkeepers lower down in the pecking order keen to prove themselves.
The economics of the Premier League, particularly for the top clubs, means they can afford to bolster their goalkeeping ranks for little more than training purposes — an unrealistic scenario in Seaman and Wright’s day. Stockpiling goalkeepers is not as prevalent in the lower leagues for financial reasons. In fact, many clubs below the second-tier Championship only have one professional goalkeeper contracted to them and, in some cases, none, with a youth player sitting on the bench. Due to the emergency loan rule, they can recruit a goalkeeper from the Championship if needed, provided their backup has fewer than five league appearances.
Another key reason is to help clubs comply with European and Premier League squad registration rules.
Signed by Manchester City in 2012, Richard Wright is one of the league’s most memorable examples of precisely this. Wright remained on City’s books for four years and never made a first-team appearance before announcing his retirement in 2016 at age 38, but as a player who spent at least three seasons training at a professional club in England or Wales before turning 21, he qualified as “homegrown”. In the Premier League, clubs need at least eight homegrown players out of a named squad of 25.
UEFA has similar regulations but also requires that four of a minimum of eight homegrown players have come through the club’s academy. This not only helps the club but also gives goalkeepers the opportunity to be involved at a higher level, which may not be possible otherwise.
“Tom King, for example, is 29 and is in that role (as third-choice) at Wolves,” says Sells. “The attraction for him, having plied his trade in the bottom two divisions for most of his career, was having the opportunity to train and play at a Premier League club with that level of player, facilities and coaching.“They feel that there’s still a certain amount of self-improvement to come. Even at his age now, if he did it for a year or two more, he may still feel he can push himself up the pecking order or maybe get an unexpected chance to prove himself. He’s developing so much as a player during this period by working with better players every day that he’ll be very well set up for his next challenge.”For City, adding Wright helped them bolster their squad with an experienced player, negating the need to promote someone from the academy to sit on the bench when a loan move elsewhere to gain first-team experience might be better for their development. Scott Carson currently fulfils this role for the reigning Premier League champions at age 38, and Bentley, who was not just developed in England but critically also came through Arsenal’s academy, would help Mikel Arteta’s side in this respect. Finally, in fitting with what has become somewhat of a PSR-dominant transfer window, recruiting goalkeepers with high potential before their transfer valuations could perhaps skyrocket elsewhere is a sensible long-term investment.
“Primarily, clubs are developing players to eventually play in the first team, but the reality is, perhaps only one of them will ultimately be good enough,” Sells says. “For example, Brighton have five goalkeepers on their books, and there won’t be room for all of them. But if a few are sold for £5million or £10m, it makes good sense in terms of PSR, doesn’t it?
“I don’t believe this, but let’s just say, for argument’s sake, that Carl Rushworth or James Beadle (who spent last season out on loan in the Championship at Swansea City and Sheffield Wednesday, respectively, after coming through Brighton’s academy) don’t end up being good enough to play in the Premier League for Brighton. If the club sold them both for £20million, it would give them a lot of scope to go and buy another goalkeeper, based on how PSR works."
Having grown up in the Netherlands as the son of an English father and Dutch mother, Arsenal target Setford does not yet qualify as a homegrown player under the Premier League and UEFA’s rules, despite representing England Under-20s this summer. However, he would sign as an 18-year-old and will turn 21 in his third year at Arsenal, meaning he will then qualify as a homegrown player under UEFA’s current regulations, providing he continues with the London side.
This
This is it exactly mate
tevezito
In the cup for Tottingham
- Jun 8, 2004
- 1,105
- 2,042
Ah, great - Fraser already has history of getting injured when number 2 keeper.
Tottenham_God
Well-Known Member
- Nov 6, 2011
- 2,983
- 5,703
Has to be purely financial the reason he doesn't leave. 10k a week to train basically or 2.5 K in league one
eddiebailey
Well-Known Member
- Oct 12, 2004
- 8,000
- 8,147
He’s been third choice keeper now since Gazzaniga left, which for a young goalie is touching distance of the big time, and from the club’s point of view means he can’t be loaned as they need that emergency cover.
There did seem a plan at one point for him and Whiteman to go out on loan alternately. Certainly Alfie was linked to a loan at the beginning of last season before becoming injured. Then Alfie was injured again this preseason. It’s possible that because of this their development has not quite worked out as they or the club would have liked. You don’t loan out your third choice keeper when your fourth choice keeper is injured.
There did seem a plan at one point for him and Whiteman to go out on loan alternately. Certainly Alfie was linked to a loan at the beginning of last season before becoming injured. Then Alfie was injured again this preseason. It’s possible that because of this their development has not quite worked out as they or the club would have liked. You don’t loan out your third choice keeper when your fourth choice keeper is injured.
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KingsDodgyKnee
Well-Known Member
- Aug 1, 2013
- 219
- 777
Austin looked fine in preseason during the limited minutes he got. I doubt it would be an utter clown show if he were to play, but understandably you'd have less confidence in him unless he turns into an absolute worldy
- Jan 14, 2004
- 15,165
- 9,496
- Staff
- #78
He looked ok but he got really nervous when the ball was passed back to him with very little pressure on him. Big difference between a low intensity preseason and playing with all the fans on your back.
Tottenham_God
Well-Known Member
- Nov 6, 2011
- 2,983
- 5,703
How big a jump do you think say #1 for a Bolton or Reading in league one vs our 3rd choice ?
- Jan 14, 2004
- 15,165
- 9,496
- Staff
- #80
It’s really hard to say. Keepers are hard to judge without watching them. I think the biggest challenge for a keeper at premier league level is the pressure, concentration and ability to keep up with the speed of the game. But keepers can make amazing saves at all levels of football and will have more to do on worse teams (with worse defending).
