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Player Watch - Ashley Phillips

McFlash

Without doubt the dumbest & most clueless member.
Oct 19, 2005
15,472
59,303
same age as Archie Grey
Oh, are we judging all players development against the very few who step up early now?

Seriously, how many Archie Gray's have you seen in your lifetime?
Not that many, I reckon.
 

Danny1

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2006
6,217
20,594
Oh, are we judging all players development against the very few who step up early now?

Seriously, how many Archie Gray's have you seen in your lifetime?
Not that many, I reckon.

I dunno, it’s a fairly common name I reckon 😉
 

Twizzle

The Alpha Male
May 25, 2008
5,083
5,002
my, aren't we a touchy lot ? 5 words, yet all the above assumptions are read into it

we may see them playing side by side sometime in the future which I look forward to and yeah, there may be more Archie Greys around, it is a fairly common name I guess, but I've only come across 1
 

McFlash

Without doubt the dumbest & most clueless member.
Oct 19, 2005
15,472
59,303
my, aren't we a touchy lot ? 5 words, yet all the above assumptions are read into it

we may see them playing side by side sometime in the future which I look forward to and yeah, there may be more Archie Greys around, it is a fairly common name I guess, but I've only come across 1
Maybe you should have used more than 5 words then because going by the conversation at the time, it was rather easy to make such assumptions.

What exactly were you meaning then?
 

chas vs dave

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2008
6,499
25,371
Oh, are we judging all players development against the very few who step up early now?

Seriously, how many Archie Gray's have you seen in your lifetime?
Not that many, I reckon.
Harry Kane wasnt doing much until his early 20's. its not a linear path
 
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bombarda

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2019
399
2,054
I think recalling him is a very short term view. This season is over as far as the league goes, and it’s too close to Liverpool for a recall to make any sense for the league cup (and he’s probably cup tied, not sure). We’ve got Tamworth in the FA Cup and even if it’s through the playoffs should be okay in the Europa League. Then VdV and Romero are back. Recalling him would harm his development imo. I’d much rather see us loan in somebody or bring in a low risk cover option from somewhere.
 

$hoguN

Well-Known Member
Jul 25, 2005
27,897
38,544
I think recalling him is a very short term view. This season is over as far as the league goes, and it’s too close to Liverpool for a recall to make any sense for the league cup (and he’s probably cup tied, not sure). We’ve got Tamworth in the FA Cup and even if it’s through the playoffs should be okay in the Europa League. Then VdV and Romero are back. Recalling him would harm his development imo. I’d much rather see us loan in somebody or bring in a low risk cover option from somewhere.
Cuts both ways.

Radu, VDV, Romero and Davies all have the potential for reoccurrences of their injuries. We could do with the extra body and he could take his chance. Dorrington clearly isn’t going to be trusted next to Gray at CB judging by Ange’s decisions thus far
 

bombarda

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2019
399
2,054
Cuts both ways.

Radu, VDV, Romero and Davies all have the potential for reoccurrences of their injuries. We could do with the extra body and he could take his chance. Dorrington clearly isn’t going to be trusted next to Gray at CB judging by Ange’s decisions thus far
I agree we need somebody, but I'd prefer it was a loan or somebody who can be an extra body on an okay-ish wage. Then revisit the need for an LCB back up in the summer.
 

$hoguN

Well-Known Member
Jul 25, 2005
27,897
38,544
I agree we need somebody, but I'd prefer it was a loan or somebody who can be an extra body on an okay-ish wage. Then revisit the need for an LCB back up in the summer.
I’d go the other way and give the lad a chance
 

bombarda

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2019
399
2,054
I’d go the other way and give the lad a chance
But ultimately, he'll be back to being 4th/5th choice come February and we will have stopped him getting another good loan as he'll have played for two teams already
 

Sophos151

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2016
833
2,712
But ultimately, he'll be back to being 4th/5th choice come February and we will have stopped him getting another good loan as he'll have played for two teams already
And teams will think twice about loaning from us in the future, if they can't be confident they'll get to keep them come January.
 

thekneaf

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2011
2,123
4,507
We're finally getting loans right, I want that to continue long term. It's the only way you can keep an academy running. You need to prove to players and parents that you'll develop them and are committed to helping them find a pathway. Then you just keep the very very best and sell / release the rest in good shape for a career
 

WiganSpur

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
17,866
36,793
I think recalling him is a very short term view. This season is over as far as the league goes, and it’s too close to Liverpool for a recall to make any sense for the league cup (and he’s probably cup tied, not sure). We’ve got Tamworth in the FA Cup and even if it’s through the playoffs should be okay in the Europa League. Then VdV and Romero are back. Recalling him would harm his development imo. I’d much rather see us loan in somebody or bring in a low risk cover option from somewhere.
The league season isn’t over yet. We could still get an ECL spot imo with a few points over the next 3 games. Arsenal probably a write off but signings in for a Everton and Leicester may help us to some results.

I probably agree with not bringing Phillips back though. It’s probably only something I’d consider on deadline day depending on the state of our squad at that point.
 

Frozen_Waffles

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2005
4,343
11,854
Oh, are we judging all players development against the very few who step up early now?

Seriously, how many Archie Gray's have you seen in your lifetime?
Not that many, I reckon.
People always use the outliers as their main argument. It's fucking stupid.

Remember when Leicester won the league and then everything for the next few years was "well, Leicester did it".

How many players look absolutely amazing at 18 in the PL... Fabregas, Rooney and Owen? That's in 30 years of football. Even Archie Gray (who is doing amazingly) is an absoloute outlier.

Giving up on Phillips at 19 is stupid, he's a regular impressing at a championship team as a CB (also very rare).

I wouldn't bring him back either, let him keep playing at Stoke, he'll probably play another 15-20 games there. Great for his development compared to the handful of games he'd get here (if that). He currently wouldn't be ahead of Dragusin or Gray so he'd be actually 6th choice.
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,528
40,624
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Thenewcat

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
3,876
13,234
People always use the outliers as their main argument. It's fucking stupid.

Remember when Leicester won the league and then everything for the next few years was "well, Leicester did it".

How many players look absolutely amazing at 18 in the PL... Fabregas, Rooney and Owen? That's in 30 years of football. Even Archie Gray (who is doing amazingly) is an absoloute outlier.

Giving up on Phillips at 19 is stupid, he's a regular impressing at a championship team as a CB (also very rare).

I wouldn't bring him back either, let him keep playing at Stoke, he'll probably play another 15-20 games there. Great for his development compared to the handful of games he'd get here (if that). He currently wouldn't be ahead of Dragusin or Gray so he'd be actually 6th choice.
It’s even more of an outlier for a centre half - it’s the hardest position for a teenager to play due to the mental and physical maturity required. A 19 year old playing well at Championship level still has pretty much any path open to them. As I said in his own thread, it makes what Archie gray is doing even more ludicrous, that’s he’s the best 18 year old CB I can recall in the PL… and he hasn’t played there at all before this year.
 

purplemonkey

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2006
355
1,969
Phillips is doing exceptionally well to have clocked up 41 Championship appearances at 19, especially under the circumstances: in the space of just a year he’s had to fight for his place over and over again and and earn the trust of 5 different managers for two clubs fighting relegation in one of the toughest divisions around, playing in a position where he is probably the most vulnerable to being dropped for a more experienced pro. It’s actually pretty remarkable that he keeps coming through the other side, and I’m sure it’ll speak volumes about his ability and character, particularly for a manager like Ange who places a huge amount of stock in being able to overcome adversity.
 

spurs9

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
12,821
39,416
Just for perspective, at the same age:

van Dijk had 1 eredivisie start and 4 sub apps.

Romero had 10 starts & 2 sub apps in the Argentine league.

Van de Ven had 45 starts and 2 sub apps in the 2nd tier league in Holland.

He is doing alright.
 
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