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Player Watch Player Watch: Archie Gray

Krafty

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2004
4,924
2,420
He’s been great, just hope we can get him into central midfield sooner than later. Would be such a waste if he becomes a very good utility player instead of a top class central midfield (which we really need)
 

WiganSpur

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
17,907
36,881
The first was a back pass which was going into the net so FF had to take a touch to prevent the OG. The backpass should never have happened because Zirkzee had already bent his run to attack the keeper. Having sold out Fraser, Gray did nothing to track the run of Zirkzee.

The second was an under-hit back pass which invited Diallo to chase it. Instead of tracking Diallo, Gray let him run past and actually ran away from the incident. See the shot below, Diallo was chasing the ball and Gray was running in the direction of the corner flag.

I realise that Gray has a great future, but he needs to hold his hand up and learn from mistakes like yesterday.

View attachment 149173
Except Forster could see that he’s been given a tricky pass and sprint towards the ball and hoof it?
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,544
40,701
I get that he looks like a midfielder, but I’m still unsure of that’s where he’ll end up

He could be a CB in time I think - not sure

Talented though
this is probably a strange shout but the player he reminds me of when i see him there is mats hummels, i think if you can get a player with his ability on the ball at cb and without giving much up defensively then you really are laughing. tbh even pre-season when he played there i never felt like i was watching a midfielder playing cb. everyone has him pegged as the future "6" and bergvall the "8" but i'm not entirely sure that's right. i think a really dominant team would look to push each of them one step back so you really have that ball-playing ability right from the base of the side. need to see him in midfield at some point to really judge but him at cb long-term isn't that outlandish imo.
 

bozzaSPUR

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
478
543
The first was a back pass which was going into the net so FF had to take a touch to prevent the OG. The backpass should never have happened because Zirkzee had already bent his run to attack the keeper. Having sold out Fraser, Gray did nothing to track the run of Zirkzee.

The second was an under-hit back pass which invited Diallo to chase it. Instead of tracking Diallo, Gray let him run past and actually ran away from the incident. See the shot below, Diallo was chasing the ball and Gray was running in the direction of the corner flag.

I realise that Gray has a great future, but he needs to hold his hand up and learn from mistakes like yesterday.

View attachment 149173
Not his mistakes. FF at fault for both (he wont make the same mistakes again). He gave FF plenty of time to pit his foot through it!
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
17,162
54,528
With any 2 of healthy Romero, VDV, Dragusin, and even Davies, I refuse to accept that he shouldn’t be starting week in and week out as the DM anchor to our midfield. He is quality here and now and only getting better. Scary for the league and Europe. We’ve seen everything we need to know he would make us so solid defensively and help us control games.

You've never seen play in that position for us though? Not saying he won't be the best in the world as a 6 at some point in his career but right now not sure you can make such assertions. Playing as a number 6 in an Ange team is probably the most demanding of all the positions on the pitch.
 

jurgen

Busy ****
Jul 5, 2008
7,134
19,047
this is probably a strange shout but the player he reminds me of when i see him there is mats hummels, i think if you can get a player with his ability on the ball at cb and without giving much up defensively then you really are laughing. tbh even pre-season when he played there i never felt like i was watching a midfielder playing cb. everyone has him pegged as the future "6" and bergvall the "8" but i'm not entirely sure that's right. i think a really dominant team would look to push each of them one step back so you really have that ball-playing ability right from the base of the side. need to see him in midfield at some point to really judge but him at cb long-term isn't that outlandish imo.
Alternatively as when prime Dier was on it, that DM who can easily drop into defence as a nearly natural CB, helped make us rock solid. Gray’s much better on the ball too.
 

npearl4spurs

Believing Member
Sep 9, 2014
5,110
14,413
You've never seen play in that position for us though? Not saying he won't be the best in the world as a 6 at some point in his career but right now not sure you can make such assertions. Playing as a number 6 in an Ange team is probably the most demanding of all the positions on the pitch.
Have we not seen enough of Biss and Bentancur and then to see Archie’s quality? I know who I’d be most comfortable with
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
17,162
54,528
Have we not seen enough of Biss and Bentancur and then to see Archie’s quality? I know who I’d be most comfortable with

Both of those are seasoned pros that have performed to a good level in Ange's team. We just don't know if an 18 year old can do the same in one of the most demanding positions in the team.

I've seen Gray play 6 for us once, against Bayern in pre season, and he looked totally overwhelmed and lost possession numerous times. On that evidence - the only evidence we have at this point - I wouldn't count him as a starting DMC just yet.
 

npearl4spurs

Believing Member
Sep 9, 2014
5,110
14,413
Both of those are seasoned pros that have performed to a good level in Ange's team. We just don't know if an 18 year old can do the same in one of the most demanding positions in the team.

I've seen Gray play 6 for us once, against Bayern in pre season, and he looked totally overwhelmed and lost possession numerous times. On that evidence - the only evidence we have at this point - I wouldn't count him as a starting DMC just yet.
Fair points and probably the right ones at this point. A bit harsh perhaps to judge him for a performance in pre-season. It is evidence but certainly the lowest level evidence possible. Remember the more relevant evidence in his domination of Chelsea’s midfield last year.

I just think he’s the future so why not start now? Maybe it’s overboard to be every game, but can we at least see it the last EL game? We need to get him there because with how good he has been, he hasn’t been in his best position! He has all the tangibles and intangibles and is superior or equal to the other two in the qualities needed for that position on the pitch.

I can understand giving him a bit more time to develop but not much. He needs to be there soon and the sooner the better IMO
 

McFlash

Without doubt the dumbest & most clueless member.
Oct 19, 2005
15,585
59,629
The first was a back pass which was going into the net so FF had to take a touch to prevent the OG. The backpass should never have happened because Zirkzee had already bent his run to attack the keeper. Having sold out Fraser, Gray did nothing to track the run of Zirkzee.

The second was an under-hit back pass which invited Diallo to chase it. Instead of tracking Diallo, Gray let him run past and actually ran away from the incident. See the shot below, Diallo was chasing the ball and Gray was running in the direction of the corner flag.

I realise that Gray has a great future, but he needs to hold his hand up and learn from mistakes like yesterday.

View attachment 149173
Wow, that still picture explains everything!
 

McFlash

Without doubt the dumbest & most clueless member.
Oct 19, 2005
15,585
59,629
Fraser had ample time to clear that ball. He is the experienced player. Why try and blame an 18 yr old who is playing out of position.
Exactly, it's probably not the best pass from Gray but his team mates need to recognise that he's pretty right footed, so balls like that to him aren't easy for him to play out wide with his left, he'll naturally play it with his right, which means back to the keeper.
But even with that, Fraser didn't have a clue what was going on around him and had plenty of time to do more than he did.

The second one, I'd highlight Bissouma pointlessly taking a quick free kick and playing it backwards. Yes again, Fraze messed up even worse that time but Biss had no reason to start that ball rolling.

I did notice that for as good as he was at the start Bissouma, he fell apart quite quickly as soon as they scored.
There was that dodgy mis-control that nearly ended up in the net too.
He's certainly one we need to replace because he just doesn't have the mentality, calmness or concentration.
 

hughy

I'm SUPER cereal.
Nov 18, 2007
33,276
62,213
The first was a back pass which was going into the net so FF had to take a touch to prevent the OG. The backpass should never have happened because Zirkzee had already bent his run to attack the keeper. Having sold out Fraser, Gray did nothing to track the run of Zirkzee.

The second was an under-hit back pass which invited Diallo to chase it. Instead of tracking Diallo, Gray let him run past and actually ran away from the incident. See the shot below, Diallo was chasing the ball and Gray was running in the direction of the corner flag.

I realise that Gray has a great future, but he needs to hold his hand up and learn from mistakes like yesterday.

View attachment 149173
Jesus fucking Christ I've seen some awful takes in my 15 or so years on here, and I'm pretty sure this is in the top 5 worst.
 

idontgetit

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2011
16,073
35,687
Alternatively as when prime Dier was on it, that DM who can easily drop into defence as a nearly natural CB, helped make us rock solid. Gray’s much better on the ball too.

That was my favourite footy that we played under Poch. Fullbacks pushing up and Dier dropping between the two CB's when on the ball. Kinda helped having Dembele to run the midfield solo though.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
23,427
59,046
The only thing we got right 100% last summer.

In fact, him, Moore and Bergvall are driving any optimism I have and why I'm not worried about the future. (Plus Deki - but more immediate)
I’d say we got Solanke 100% right as well. Bergvall also looks a talent and Odobert could be.

The issue was just on top of that we should’ve also added a least 2 top quality ready to go 1st team players as too many of the signings were young with potential and going to take time to develop, but Gray has incredible potential.
 

PCozzie

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
4,954
22,983
Fraser had ample time to clear that ball. He is the experienced player. Why try and blame an 18 yr old who is playing out of position.
This is the point. On neither of the first two goals was Forster forced to try to play out. He only came under pressure because of the decision to take a touch or play a risky pass. We don't have to jettison our whole ethos to recognise that once or twice in a match the keeper just has to thump it back over half-way with his first touch. We can do that. It's allowed.
 

Stamford

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2015
4,921
23,763
I’d say we got Solanke 100% right as well. Bergvall also looks a talent and Odobert could be.

The issue was just on top of that we should’ve also added a least 2 top quality ready to go 1st team players as too many of the signings were young with potential and going to take time to develop, but Gray has incredible potential.

Agree mate. Nothing wrong with signing those players but we had to add the experience too. Necessary that it happens in the next windows. Squad lacks experience
 
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