kent brockman
Just another ginger from Sweden
- Sep 1, 2012
- 1,473
- 2,938
Probably told Vicario to stop defending set pieces like a school girl.
That boy Archie will be a star.
Player Watch Player Watch: Archie Gray
- Thread starter Archibald&Crooks
- Start date
That boy Archie will be a star.
RJR1949
Well-Known Member
- Jan 31, 2013
- 1,249
- 6,918
He’s certainly too slow to be a top class full back. But watch how he positions himself to stop passes getting to the winger he’s marking and to close down the winger quickly. He’s such a smart player.
HildoSpur
Likes Erik Lamela, deal with it.
- Oct 1, 2005
- 10,442
- 34,174
Yeah we have to be careful with him as he has played a lot of football in the past year. Having said that, with Bentancur out I'd like to see him get some opportunities in midfield over the next period up to xmas.
Westmorlandspur
Well-Known Member
- Feb 1, 2013
- 3,665
- 5,940
Barca played Pedri for a full season at 18yrs old. Then he played the euros in the summer and has hardly played since . Such is the intensity these days, these boys have to be protected. .
Monkey boy
Well-Known Member
- Jun 18, 2011
- 6,781
- 18,060
Wilson Odobert played 20 mins against Coventry one time and missed the rest of the year. Good times
mil1lion
This is the place to be
- May 7, 2004
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Pedri also played at the Olympics. He was clearly played too much at his age. I don't see the similarity here with Odobert who hasn't played a lot for us. Although I'm not sure if the teenagers have the same fitness regime as the adults. If not maybe they should.
fishhhandaricecake
Well-Known Member
- Nov 15, 2018
- 22,087
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Surely he will get a chance in CM now given Bentancur's ban.
Does his ban effect just PL games or domestic cup games too and/or european games also?
With no Spence in European squad mabye Gray will cover occasional CM in PL and still RB in Europe.
We shall see.
Does his ban effect just PL games or domestic cup games too and/or european games also?
With no Spence in European squad mabye Gray will cover occasional CM in PL and still RB in Europe.
We shall see.
PCozzie
Well-Known Member
- Sep 9, 2020
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Just domestic league/cup. He's available for Europa matches.
mil1lion
This is the place to be
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Obvious one will be with Bournemouth mid week. Need to rotate a bit maybe that week. With Chelsea on Sunday resting Bissouma for Gray on the Thursday could be best. None are easy games but he will not be phased for any he gets picked for.
tevezito
In the cup for Tottingham
- Jun 8, 2004
- 1,105
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What's our Archie doing on Page 3? Definitely deserves a bump, even if yet another Athletic article doesn't tell us anything we don't already know or answer its own question.
When Tottenham Hotspur were battling Brentford for Archie Gray’s signature in the summer, the 18 year old made it clear that his favoured position was central midfield.
Gray made 47 appearances for Leeds United in the Championship last season, including the play-offs, and head coach Daniel Farke primarily used him as a full-back. Across a manic weekend at the end of June, Gray completed a medical with Brentford but changed his mind the following day and decided to join Spurs— who saw him as a midfielder — on a six-year contract in a deal worth up to £40million ($50.7m).
During his first six months in north London, Gray has played in multiple different positions but minutes in his preferred role have been hard to come by. This could change over the next few weeks while Rodrigo Bentancur serves a seven-match ban for racist comments he made about his team-mate Son Heung-Min. Tottenham are appealing the length of Bentancur’s suspension but he is currently unavailable until they face Nottingham Forest on December 26. The Uruguay international can still play in the Europa League, he started in their 2-2 draw with Roma on Thursday, but is due to miss crucial Premier League fixtures against Chelsea and Liverpool as well as the Carabao Cup quarter-final tie with Manchester United.
Bentancur and Yves Bissouma have shared the holding midfield role this season. Bissouma has taken ownership of the position in the league and he impressed in Saturday’s stunning 4-0 victory over Manchester City. The Mali international cannot be expected to play every single minute of Premier League action while Bentancur is banned.
Has the time come for Gray to be given a chance to flourish where many believe he belongs?
Brentford’s recruitment department scouted Gray extensively. They believe he possesses the potential to become one of the best English midfielders of his generation. This is why they were prepared to smash their transfer record to sign a teenager who at the time had only made 52 senior appearances.
Head coach Thomas Frank was heavily involved in trying to convince Gray to move to west London along with technical director Lee Dykes and director of football Phil Giles. When Brentford present to prospective signings, they analyse a large number of their games and break them down into two separate categories — green for a good performance and red for one that could have been better. They highlight how the player’s qualities complement Frank’s tactics and speak about areas for improvement.
Brentford explained to Gray and his representatives that he would spend two years playing as a No 8 in Frank’s 4-3-3 system, effectively operating as one of their advanced central midfielders. He would learn the intricacies of being a defensive midfielder from captain Christian Norgaard, who has been capped 32 times by Denmark. After his first two seasons, Gray would be ready to replace Norgaard as the first-choice holding midfielder.
The England Under-21 international was impressed by Brentford’s pitch and the opportunity to play regularly in the Premier League, but decided instead to become a part of Ange Postecoglou’s project at Spurs. Multiple people familiar with Tottenham’s proposed deal have said there is an agreement that if Gray does not play a minimum number of minutes then he will be allowed to leave for a similar fee to the one Tottenham paid for him. Tottenham dispute that such an agreement exists.
Postecoglou has so far used Gray in defence, not midfield (Sebastian Frej/Getty Images)
Tottenham sold Oliver Skipp (to Leicester) and sent Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg out on loan (to Marseille) in the summer but Gray knew competition for places in midfield would still be fierce. What the England Under-21 international would not have anticipated was partnering Skipp, before he joined Leicester City, at centre-back on his first appearance for Tottenham in a pre-season friendly against Hearts. He featured multiple times on tour in Japan and South Korea and told reporters out there: “Wherever (Postecoglou) puts me on the pitch, I’ll do that to the best of my ability and I don’t really care where I play.”
During that tour, Tottenham’s captain Son heaped praise on Gray and Lucas Bergvall, another 18-year-old who joined in the summer. “It’s a joy to watch them and they are both working really hard,” Son said. “They just want to listen and learn. That’s very important at this age because you hope those guys both have an amazing bright future. I’m always trying to help the two of them because they just came here to a new club. Every single day they impress me with their attitude. They are young but they can make a huge impact for the team.”
Gray lives close to the training ground in Hampstead. He is enjoying his time at Spurs and has a close relationship with Son, Fraser Forster and Ben Davies who are all senior members of the dressing room. He has a good friendship with James Maddison and Brennan Johnson, too. Johnson’s father, David, played with Gray’s dad, Andy, at Nottingham Forest. In training, he has paid close attention to and picked up tips from Bentancur and Bissouma about how to operate as a No 6.
Gray has started five times in the Europa League and twice in the Carabao Cup. He normally provides cover for first-choice right-back Pedro Porro but featured on the left in the 3-2 defeat to Galatasaray and Thursday night’s draw with Roma.
It was his sensational lofted pass for Brennan Johnson that directly led to Will Lankshear’s goal in Istanbul. It was the perfect example of what he can offer when he pushes up into advanced central areas.
Playing in multiple positions can help a player’s development, giving them a more rounded skill set while exposing them to different challenges. Gray struggled at times coming up against Matheus Nunes in Tottenham’s 2-1 victory over Man City in the Carabao Cup. He will have learned from that experience and his one-v-one defending should improve every time he comes up against a tricky winger.
Steven Gerrard, who was one of the best box-to-box midfielders in the Premier League, made his first start for Liverpool at right-back in a 2-1 defeat to Spurs at the old White Hart Lane in 1998. Gerrard was responsible for marking David Ginola but was substituted after 55 minutes when Liverpool were losing 2-0. The future Liverpool captain made a couple more appearances in defence before establishing himself in central midfield the following season. It is fair to say that temporarily playing in an unfamiliar position did not impact his career too much.
There are a few cautionary tales though. At the beginning of his career, Ainsley Maitland-Niles was used as a wing-back by multiple managers at Arsenal and he earned five England caps under Gareth Southgate but it meant his attempts to return to midfield were futile.
During the November international break, Gray started in defence for England’s under-21s in draws against Spain and the Netherlands. When Tottenham beat Ferencvaros in the Europa League last month, Gray started at centre-back with Cristian Romero but switched to left-back at half-time. The next day, Postecoglou praised his “temperament” and how he is “constantly looking for more information”.
Gray and Son have bonded over the course of this season (David Ramos/Getty Images)
“Last night, I played him in two different positions and both are probably the least preferred for him,” Postecoglou said. “He has played right full-back and in centre midfield, I had him at left centre-back and left-back last night and I thought he did brilliantly again. I’m not going to just put him in different positions; at the moment we are using him where we need him. I think hopefully that gives him confidence in how much I trust him. Eventually we will settle him into an area but him playing at the moment, he has played in a Carabao Cup game away, two European games (and had) exposure in the Premier League already in the first 10 games of his Tottenham career, which I think is brilliant for us.”
On Friday, before Tottenham’s game against Fulham, Postecoglou said “I’m so excited by Archie” and praised his maturity, efficiency and calmness. Gray has only played five times in the top flight for a combined total of 42 minutes, according to Opta. The longest amount of time he has had on the pitch is the final quarter of an hour of Spurs’ victory over Everton and they had a comfortable 3-0 lead at the time. However, he is clearly highly valued by his head coach.
Tottenham only named a 23-man squad in the Europa League, two fewer than the maximum, because they did not have enough locally trained players. Postecoglou took the tricky decision to omit Djed Spence. If Spence, who featured at left-back and right-back during loan spells with Genoa and Leeds last season, had been included then Gray might have played more in midfield.
Although Brentford liked Gray’s versatility, the reality is he would have played in defence for them too. First-choice full-backs Rico Henry and Aaron Hickey have suffered setbacks in their recovery from long-term injuries, which means central defender Sepp van den Berg and midfielder Vitaly Janelt have provided cover for them.
Tottenham’s form has been like a rollercoaster this season. They recorded resounding away victories over Man City and Manchester United but lost to Crystal Palace and Ipswich Town. Postecoglou’s side recovered from conceding first to beat West Ham United and Aston Villa 4-1. Due to the chaotic nature of those games, Postecoglou might have felt more experience was needed to secure victory. They have lost five league games in total and in those situations Postecoglou is more likely to make an attacking substitution.
If Bentancur’s appeal is unsuccessful, then Tottenham will have to cope without him for a run of six domestic games in three weeks. It feels like the perfect opportunity to see what Gray is capable of in midfield either in the second-half of games to give Bissouma a breather or from the start.
Is Tottenham’s Archie Gray finally about to be given the chance to play in midfield?
Jay HarrisWhen Tottenham Hotspur were battling Brentford for Archie Gray’s signature in the summer, the 18 year old made it clear that his favoured position was central midfield.
Gray made 47 appearances for Leeds United in the Championship last season, including the play-offs, and head coach Daniel Farke primarily used him as a full-back. Across a manic weekend at the end of June, Gray completed a medical with Brentford but changed his mind the following day and decided to join Spurs— who saw him as a midfielder — on a six-year contract in a deal worth up to £40million ($50.7m).
During his first six months in north London, Gray has played in multiple different positions but minutes in his preferred role have been hard to come by. This could change over the next few weeks while Rodrigo Bentancur serves a seven-match ban for racist comments he made about his team-mate Son Heung-Min. Tottenham are appealing the length of Bentancur’s suspension but he is currently unavailable until they face Nottingham Forest on December 26. The Uruguay international can still play in the Europa League, he started in their 2-2 draw with Roma on Thursday, but is due to miss crucial Premier League fixtures against Chelsea and Liverpool as well as the Carabao Cup quarter-final tie with Manchester United.
Bentancur and Yves Bissouma have shared the holding midfield role this season. Bissouma has taken ownership of the position in the league and he impressed in Saturday’s stunning 4-0 victory over Manchester City. The Mali international cannot be expected to play every single minute of Premier League action while Bentancur is banned.
Has the time come for Gray to be given a chance to flourish where many believe he belongs?
Brentford’s recruitment department scouted Gray extensively. They believe he possesses the potential to become one of the best English midfielders of his generation. This is why they were prepared to smash their transfer record to sign a teenager who at the time had only made 52 senior appearances.
Head coach Thomas Frank was heavily involved in trying to convince Gray to move to west London along with technical director Lee Dykes and director of football Phil Giles. When Brentford present to prospective signings, they analyse a large number of their games and break them down into two separate categories — green for a good performance and red for one that could have been better. They highlight how the player’s qualities complement Frank’s tactics and speak about areas for improvement.
Brentford explained to Gray and his representatives that he would spend two years playing as a No 8 in Frank’s 4-3-3 system, effectively operating as one of their advanced central midfielders. He would learn the intricacies of being a defensive midfielder from captain Christian Norgaard, who has been capped 32 times by Denmark. After his first two seasons, Gray would be ready to replace Norgaard as the first-choice holding midfielder.
The England Under-21 international was impressed by Brentford’s pitch and the opportunity to play regularly in the Premier League, but decided instead to become a part of Ange Postecoglou’s project at Spurs. Multiple people familiar with Tottenham’s proposed deal have said there is an agreement that if Gray does not play a minimum number of minutes then he will be allowed to leave for a similar fee to the one Tottenham paid for him. Tottenham dispute that such an agreement exists.
Postecoglou has so far used Gray in defence, not midfield (Sebastian Frej/Getty Images)
Tottenham sold Oliver Skipp (to Leicester) and sent Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg out on loan (to Marseille) in the summer but Gray knew competition for places in midfield would still be fierce. What the England Under-21 international would not have anticipated was partnering Skipp, before he joined Leicester City, at centre-back on his first appearance for Tottenham in a pre-season friendly against Hearts. He featured multiple times on tour in Japan and South Korea and told reporters out there: “Wherever (Postecoglou) puts me on the pitch, I’ll do that to the best of my ability and I don’t really care where I play.”
During that tour, Tottenham’s captain Son heaped praise on Gray and Lucas Bergvall, another 18-year-old who joined in the summer. “It’s a joy to watch them and they are both working really hard,” Son said. “They just want to listen and learn. That’s very important at this age because you hope those guys both have an amazing bright future. I’m always trying to help the two of them because they just came here to a new club. Every single day they impress me with their attitude. They are young but they can make a huge impact for the team.”
Gray lives close to the training ground in Hampstead. He is enjoying his time at Spurs and has a close relationship with Son, Fraser Forster and Ben Davies who are all senior members of the dressing room. He has a good friendship with James Maddison and Brennan Johnson, too. Johnson’s father, David, played with Gray’s dad, Andy, at Nottingham Forest. In training, he has paid close attention to and picked up tips from Bentancur and Bissouma about how to operate as a No 6.
Gray has started five times in the Europa League and twice in the Carabao Cup. He normally provides cover for first-choice right-back Pedro Porro but featured on the left in the 3-2 defeat to Galatasaray and Thursday night’s draw with Roma.
It was his sensational lofted pass for Brennan Johnson that directly led to Will Lankshear’s goal in Istanbul. It was the perfect example of what he can offer when he pushes up into advanced central areas.
Playing in multiple positions can help a player’s development, giving them a more rounded skill set while exposing them to different challenges. Gray struggled at times coming up against Matheus Nunes in Tottenham’s 2-1 victory over Man City in the Carabao Cup. He will have learned from that experience and his one-v-one defending should improve every time he comes up against a tricky winger.
Steven Gerrard, who was one of the best box-to-box midfielders in the Premier League, made his first start for Liverpool at right-back in a 2-1 defeat to Spurs at the old White Hart Lane in 1998. Gerrard was responsible for marking David Ginola but was substituted after 55 minutes when Liverpool were losing 2-0. The future Liverpool captain made a couple more appearances in defence before establishing himself in central midfield the following season. It is fair to say that temporarily playing in an unfamiliar position did not impact his career too much.
There are a few cautionary tales though. At the beginning of his career, Ainsley Maitland-Niles was used as a wing-back by multiple managers at Arsenal and he earned five England caps under Gareth Southgate but it meant his attempts to return to midfield were futile.
During the November international break, Gray started in defence for England’s under-21s in draws against Spain and the Netherlands. When Tottenham beat Ferencvaros in the Europa League last month, Gray started at centre-back with Cristian Romero but switched to left-back at half-time. The next day, Postecoglou praised his “temperament” and how he is “constantly looking for more information”.
Gray and Son have bonded over the course of this season (David Ramos/Getty Images)
“Last night, I played him in two different positions and both are probably the least preferred for him,” Postecoglou said. “He has played right full-back and in centre midfield, I had him at left centre-back and left-back last night and I thought he did brilliantly again. I’m not going to just put him in different positions; at the moment we are using him where we need him. I think hopefully that gives him confidence in how much I trust him. Eventually we will settle him into an area but him playing at the moment, he has played in a Carabao Cup game away, two European games (and had) exposure in the Premier League already in the first 10 games of his Tottenham career, which I think is brilliant for us.”
On Friday, before Tottenham’s game against Fulham, Postecoglou said “I’m so excited by Archie” and praised his maturity, efficiency and calmness. Gray has only played five times in the top flight for a combined total of 42 minutes, according to Opta. The longest amount of time he has had on the pitch is the final quarter of an hour of Spurs’ victory over Everton and they had a comfortable 3-0 lead at the time. However, he is clearly highly valued by his head coach.
Tottenham only named a 23-man squad in the Europa League, two fewer than the maximum, because they did not have enough locally trained players. Postecoglou took the tricky decision to omit Djed Spence. If Spence, who featured at left-back and right-back during loan spells with Genoa and Leeds last season, had been included then Gray might have played more in midfield.
Although Brentford liked Gray’s versatility, the reality is he would have played in defence for them too. First-choice full-backs Rico Henry and Aaron Hickey have suffered setbacks in their recovery from long-term injuries, which means central defender Sepp van den Berg and midfielder Vitaly Janelt have provided cover for them.
Tottenham’s form has been like a rollercoaster this season. They recorded resounding away victories over Man City and Manchester United but lost to Crystal Palace and Ipswich Town. Postecoglou’s side recovered from conceding first to beat West Ham United and Aston Villa 4-1. Due to the chaotic nature of those games, Postecoglou might have felt more experience was needed to secure victory. They have lost five league games in total and in those situations Postecoglou is more likely to make an attacking substitution.
If Bentancur’s appeal is unsuccessful, then Tottenham will have to cope without him for a run of six domestic games in three weeks. It feels like the perfect opportunity to see what Gray is capable of in midfield either in the second-half of games to give Bissouma a breather or from the start.
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Wearegoingtowintheleague
Well-Known Member
- Nov 10, 2018
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He is an amazing talent.
At his age to be able to play CB, RB, LB in such competitive games is crazy.
Although not his natural position, his football intelligence allows him to adjust to the various roles.
By the time he cements himself in his natural position we will have some player
At his age to be able to play CB, RB, LB in such competitive games is crazy.
Although not his natural position, his football intelligence allows him to adjust to the various roles.
By the time he cements himself in his natural position we will have some player
Donki
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Think probably a lot of fans read too much into it. There’s no harm in some team mates slaying, IMO shows who cares, it’s like Vegas what happens on the pitch stays on the pitch. Gray I feel will be a baller, standing up for himself a little ripping of team mates is what u want in a side.Probably told Vicario to stop defending set pieces like a school girl.
That boy Archie will be a star.
Donki
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We need to give them and Ange time.
Donki
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To be honest if your an out field player you should have an average nouse of how to play anywhere. I’d say u could have but Zidane at CB and he would not have a problem with it.
Donki
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Winner, I said just in another thread, if u can play football u can play football in any outfield position. This idea of a defender not capable of playing CM I don’t get. The idea is the same, defend, show for the ball and move it on.
Donki
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Speed is not the be all and end all, certainly not, football intellogence is the key. I could rhythm off multiple players who had no real pace but they still done the job. Roy Keane, Vidic, Ferdinand, hell Mabbut, Terry, read the game, it’s not all about speed. Speed is what u need when u fuck up. Speed isn’t the art of defending. Hell Ramos Pepe, none of these guys were speed players.
il go even closer to home. Toby and verts had no real speed. Read the game see the danger u don’t need speed as a Cb, benificial maybe if u make a fuck up.
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Yet you’ve named all cbs? Fullbacks need speed, particular in this day and age an especially in our system.
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