Match Threads North London Derby pt 1

[zonbon32]

That's how proper clubs with ambition operate.

This is it in a nutshell. Under Klopp, Pool had a frightening attack with Coutinho, Mane, Firmino, then they signed Salah, won the league & CL, then bought Jota, then they bought Diaz, it might not always workout perfectly, but the INTENT is there, and without that you aren't gonna do anything, no matter how good a coach you've got

 

[PaulM]

Football club in name only now…..there in lies the problem…..

Have we ever been much better though? We've been around for 142 years and won the league twice. You could probably count the amount of times besides that where we seriously challenged on two hands. What do people seriously expect from us as a club?

 

[homer hotspur]

The goalkeeper situation yesterday perfectly sums us up as a club.

We were very interested in Raya but wouldn't pay the 24m being asked at the time. Instead, we went for the cheaper option and brought in Vicario. I don't think Vic has been terrible but there are glaring weaknesses in his game which our opponents are now targeting on a very regular basis. Once again, Levy does not seem to have learned any lessons and is left looking not very smart. If he actually had any ambition, then he'd have stopped making the same mistakes over and over. Buy cheap, buy twice as they say.

The goons however, despite having signed Aaron Ramsdale then also went out and paid the money for Raya (after an initial loan spell) when they realised that Ramsdale wasn't great with the ball at his feet and therefore didn't suit their system.

That's how proper clubs with ambition operate.

I think the asking price for Raya was always 40 million

 

[alfie103]

Have we ever been much better though? We've been around for 142 years and won the league twice. You could probably count the amount of times besides that where we seriously challenged on two hands. What do people seriously expect from us as a club?

To actually attempt to win the competitions we participate in rather than focusing on maximising revenue from prize money and increasing the financial value of the club.

 

[djhotspur]

This is it in a nutshell. Under Klopp, Pool had a frightening attack with Coutinho, Mane, Firmino, then they signed Salah, won the league & CL, then bought Jota, then they bought Diaz, it might not always workout perfectly, but the INTENT is there, and without that you aren't gonna do anything, no matter how good a coach you've got

Yup, where would you rank our attack?
United, chelsea, city, arsenal, West Ham, Liverpool all have better front 3s than us.

 

[TonyK]

I think the asking price for Raya was always 40 million

I just googled it and Sky Sports suggest that Raya moved to Arse for 27m which I think included the 3m loan fee.

 

[dontcallme]

I just googled it and Sky Sports suggest that Raya moved to Arse for 27m which I think included the 3m loan fee.

From memory he was our first choice but all the reports were they wanted £40m.

We could have held out and waited for them to drop the price. Instead we moved onto the next target.

Last season most were happy with Vic.

In hindsight we can interpret the signing as going for the cheap option. But I believe it was risky to wait
Longer and hope the price drops.

I’m happy with Vic anyway.

 

[homer hotspur]

I just googled it and Sky Sports suggest that Raya moved to Arse for 27m which I think included the 3m loan fee.

I think Brentford had to reduce the fee later because of his contact situation but they were definitely standing firm on 40 million when were trying to do the deal.. I think they thought we would give in but we. Suddenly signed Vic and left them with a bit of an issue. With hindsight, it seems there could have been a deal to be done but we were a bit desperate to get a new keeper in and I think Raya to Arsenal was quite a late deal

 

[PaulM]

To actually attempt to win the competitions we participate in rather than focusing on maximising revenue from prize money and increasing the financial value of the club.

It's not really that straightforward though. I don't buy that Levy doesn't care about on-pitch success. Listening to him and looking at what he's done, I think he very much cares about it. But...he does also want to run a sound business. Then it becomes a balancing act as to which you prioritise. For me, he's been too fiscally cautious at times. Our wages to revenue ratio is always the lowest in the league. I think he's got to loosen that because spend what you like on transfer fees - if you don't pay wages, you don't get top players.

All that said, we've never been consistent competitors in the league. In fact, our best run of sustained finishes in the upper reaches of the league (i.e. top 6) has been over the last 20 years or so.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

The goalkeeper situation yesterday perfectly sums us up as a club.

We were very interested in Raya but wouldn't pay the 24m being asked at the time. Instead, we went for the cheaper option and brought in Vicario. I don't think Vic has been terrible but there are glaring weaknesses in his game which our opponents are now targeting on a very regular basis. Once again, Levy does not seem to have learned any lessons and is left looking not very smart. If he actually had any ambition, then he'd have stopped making the same mistakes over and over. Buy cheap, buy twice as they say.

The goons however, despite having signed Aaron Ramsdale then also went out and paid the money for Raya (after an initial loan spell) when they realised that Ramsdale wasn't great with the ball at his feet and therefore didn't suit their system.

That's how proper clubs with ambition operate.

True and its what we should have done this summer re. Johnson, instead we sign a 19yr old from Burnley.

 

[Cavehillspur]

From the match report on the OS "The hosts forged their first chance in the 18th minute when Gabriel Martinelli clipped over a cross which Kai Havertz met with a good header..."

 

[alfie103]

It's not really that straightforward though. I don't buy that Levy doesn't care about on-pitch success. Listening to him and looking at what he's done, I think he very much cares about it. But...he does also want to run a sound business. Then it becomes a balancing act as to which you prioritise. For me, he's been too fiscally cautious at times. Our wages to revenue ratio is always the lowest in the league. I think he's got to loosen that because spend what you like on transfer fees - if you don't pay wages, you don't get top players.

All that said, we've never been consistent competitors in the league. In fact, our best run of sustained finishes in the upper reaches of the league (i.e. top 6) has been over the last 20 years or so.

Reading quotes when he first took the club over shows what his priorities were at the time and, for me, what his priorities are now.

What has he done to show he cares about on-pitch success? We haven't won a trophy in 16 years (which is the longest period we haven't won a trophy since the 1940s) and he is seemingly ok with this situation as the league seems to be the club's priority. Finishing in the top 6 by itself isn't success.

 

[oobaties]

Having taken some time to reflect/process the game, I honestly don't think it was as bad as some people are making out.

In some ways it reminded me of when we beat Arsenal 2-1 with Jose in charge. Arsenal had plenty of the ball but we just took our chances that day. Arsenal set up to nick a winner yesterday, and that's what they did. But I dont think how we approached the game had any baring on that. They got their goal from a corner. Not from tactically outplaying our system.

Tactics and setup wise, I think we were ok yesterday. We controlled the ball. We rarely let them play through midfield. We didnt get caught out with our usual high line too much. I agree the set plays are an issue, but again, I thought we managed a lot of their early corners/freekicks well enough. Not perfectly, but definitely better than last season.

The main issue for me was the pace that we played, either in transition or when moving the ball in the middle third. It was all just too slow. Slow movement. Delayed passing. Foot on the ball/pointing, allowing Arsenal to re-group (Romero/maddison).

I dont think even the most technical players would have been able to score with how we were attacking. Slow build up play just promotes congestion in the opponents box. If we can speed everything up. If we can spot and play the earlier pass. if we can play out wide earlier, I genuinely think we'll do very well.

I'd love it all to just happen, but I feel (a bit like Arsenal) it'll just take some time to work.

I 100% agree that tweaks need made, but I think that'll come. Ange has already made some tweaks from last season and he's not daft. Let's give him some time to fix the issues.

 

[FloridaSpur]

I don’t think there is 1 arsenal player in the starting 11 on less than 100k a week. Levy loves to shop at Lidl!

Ange has stated many times, that no player is brought in without his consent.

He has said in a press conference last season that he knows the club will never pay one hundred million for a player, and that he would sooner have two fifty million pound players.

I would like to ask Ange if he would like Rice in that midfield of ours.

 

[PaulM]

Reading quotes when he first took the club over shows what his priorities were at the time and, for me, what his priorities are now.

What has he done to show he cares about on-pitch success? We haven't won a trophy in 16 years (which is the longest period we haven't won a trophy since the 1940s) and he is seemingly ok with this situation as the league seems to be the club's priority. Finishing in the top 6 by itself isn't success.

The appointment of Mourinho and even Conte were designed to bring some silverware. They’re a couple of occasions where Levy made decisions as a fan.

Fair enough, it’s a fairly barren spell at the moment but the way people go on, you’d swear we were winning trophies every other year. That was never the case for us.

 

[Nick-TopSpursMan]

Mackenzie absolutely nailing it as usual. Scum exploited our lack of ability out wide, happening almost every game now:



Thread here:

 

[Mr Pink]

Mackenzie absolutely nailing it as usual. Scum exploited our lack of ability out wide, happening almost every game now:



Thread here:

And even if we have different personnel by the time we play NLD derby again, be it away or next season at home, the game will take exactly the same pattern

Now we might improve our use of the ball (we'll have to) but itll be the easiest game for Arteta to prepare for all season.

 

[Nick-TopSpursMan]

And even if we have different personnel by the time we play NLD derby again, be it away or next season at home, the game will take exactly the same pattern

Now we might improve our use of the ball (we'll have to) but itll be the easiest game for Arteta to prepare for all season.

But with different personnel imo it plays out very differently.

If instead of 2 limited wingers we had Mitoma and Kudus (using 2 non elite team examples, I’m aware we won’t sign them), we’d be a completely different animal and significantly harder to beat and play against.

 

[Mr Pink]

But with different personnel imo it plays out very differently.

If instead of 2 limited wingers we had Mitoma and Kudus (using 2 non elite team examples, I’m aware we won’t sign them), we’d be a completely different animal and significantly harder to beat and play against.

Well yes, but Im assuming it',ll be more of the same level in quality not 80 milliion or so for Mitoma - who'd be perfect.

 

[alfie103]

The appointment of Mourinho and even Conte were designed to bring some silverware. They’re a couple of occasions where Levy made decisions as a fan.

Fair enough, it’s a fairly barren spell at the moment but the way people go on, you’d swear we were winning trophies every other year. That was never the case for us.

Conte certainly wasn't appointed because Levy was acting as a fan. He appointed Nuno and then sacked him as the fans turned on Nuno and started to sing Levy out songs and brought in Conte as it was a name that would appease the fans. With Mourinho, I think you have a point but he didn't think like a fan when it came to the transfer policy.