Match Threads Newcastle vs Spurs

[SE Spurs]

So are you saying that Romero, Porro, Udogie and Dragusin as backup aren't good enough?
Who should we have replaced them with?

Not exactly. I'm saying despite conceding 61 goals last season, the club didn't or couldn't improve the starting 11 defensively. And I know some of them aren't good enough individually to keep clean sheets against decent sides when they are left as exposed as they are.
Personally, I really think we need(ed) a top quality DM. But how many are there out there of the quality we need or will pay for? Don't know.

I don't have a massive problem with the back 4/5 we have. But I can't see how we stop conceding as many goals, unless they have more help in front of them defensively. Or we improve in Ange's system to such an extent that being exposed as they are won't be as often or as costly.

 

[Misfit]

Always good to go into an international break with a defeat. The next fortnight is going to drag.

 

[Monkey boy]

Always good to go into an international break with a defeat. The next fortnight is going to drag.

I swear it happens to us more often than not!

 

[Gassin's finest]

Always good to go into an international break with a defeat. The next fortnight is going to drag.

I'm actually going to find it quite nice not having to watch Spurs for 14 days....

 

[FloridaSpur]

I went to the game and only got back about an hour ago to South London, hence my thoughts may be a little jumbled but there goes:

I guess my overall emotion watching from up on the Gods at SJP was that there has been little to no discernible progress in our play in the final third and our propensity to give away easy goals. Maybe we will get better over time but today really felt like Groundhog Day based on our last visit to SJP.

Looking at our signings, I can clearly see we’ve signed players with excellent potential, and long may that continue. However, it was also clear to me today that we currently lack those “special” players who will single handedly change a game.

Which brings me into the players….no point really being down on particular individuals but I’d say our collective intelligence in the final third is shockingly bad. We look uncoached and/or timid with nobody wanting to take responsibility. I saw players wildly put balls into areas where there was 1 Spurs player versus 4 or 5 Newcastle players. It really felt like the primary purpose of our players was to do what they’ve been told to do without any great thought.

Which leads me to Ange. I think he’s an excellent ambassador for the club. He’s witty, erudite, low maintenance and committed. I think he’s still finding his feet so we shouldn’t be quick to rush to judgement, however he could really help himself by putting in the requisite steps to make us more solid. Despite what some posters on here said at the time, simply playing “good football” isn’t going to be enough… we need to be winning games and challenging for trophies.

…… which leads me to my final points: Levy/ENIC. I keep coming back to the nagging question..”where’s the money gone?” Every time a poster on here says that we can’t afford a player (eg Eze’s release clause upfront or couldn’t take a loan potentially due to restrictive covenants) I always ask myself why?

We are seemingly a very well run club with significant revenues from a range of sporting and non sporting activities. I would value us at around 3.5bn - 4bn and yet we can’t take a loan for 60m? If that’s the case what is our strategic model going to be?

I would have had a lot of respect for Levy if he had come out and said that we were going to have a reset and our strategy was in developing a young squad with a view to challenging in 5-7 years. Sure, some fans would bitch and moan but I feel that most of our fans would understand and accept it, especially in this current climate. However, I can’t shake the feeling that we are being taken for granted/mugged off with a “jam tomorrow” narrative. I still can’t shake the feeling that Ange is being expected to be an alchemist rather than an excellent coach.

I guess I’m worried that ultimately, Ange will be another manager sacrificed at the ENIC altar of relative indifference to consistently challenging for trophies in preference for expanding their investment portfolio.

I may be worrying unnecessarily of course, but in the absence of information, most people fear the worst.

Sorry for the long ramble…..7 hours travel will do that to you!

COYS

Didn't Ange win silverware with the teams he's coached in his second season?

Six transfer windows?

None of us should be interested in waiting another decade for something, anything.

A seven year "buffer", "plan" or "process" is just bullshit.

How many PL managers have been at a club for 5-7 years?

I think I can name three, (and may be wrong) City, Woolwich and Brentford.

Ange is getting paid to do a job, and irrespective of player turnover, we should all expect with the talent at his disposal we should have collected more than two away wins since October.

 

[FloridaSpur]

Try to focus on this season.

A lot of last season has some genuine excuses and we have had a preseason where Ange has added more tactical aspects.

This defeat today was a million times different to that 4-0 one last season.

There was a good spell in that second half where I genuinely felt we were gonna blow them away and it lasted a good 20 mins.

I didn't get that feeling with the crap away performances at end of last season. We really struggled to muster even a shot then.

Today we worked Pope a few times and got into some great positions only to fluff it. Don't even think we looked that vulnerable at the back bar the 2 goals.

Did you watch their second goal.

Where is the improvement?

We look vulnerable every single time the opposition break on us. Every time.

 

[Misfit]

I'm actually going to find it quite nice not having to watch Spurs for 14 days....

A glass half full guy. The correct way to live.

 

[rossdapep]

f

Did you watch their second goal.

Where is the improvement?

We look vulnerable every single time the opposition break on us. Every time.

ffs

Yes, of course. But that didn't happen as frequently as it did last season where teams would often be in dangerous counters.

We restricted them yesterday.

And as people keep pointing out even City get caught out from time to time.

For me, last season is forgotten about. A lot of factors there that really hindered us.

We should be judging on this season, these performances and bar a bad 15 minute period against Leicester, we've been much better at exerting pressure and stopping the opposition's counter attacks.

We still aren't close to perfect and we need our attack to be much better but there has definitely been improvement.

 

[Cambridge Spur]

I’m sorry but for a football journalist, he actually knows very little about football.

We only gave up 3 chances?! This was all they needed in order to win the game! They set up to stifle us and hit us on the break, not pretty but they did enough to win the game.

For all our dominance I can’t remember a single clear chance that we can look back on and say ‘we should have scored’.

Lots of possession but yet again no real cutting edge. Easy to set up against for a half decent side, hence that list of statistics about our form over the last half a season.

I love Ange, maybe over time we’ll improve, however without truly top class players, I suspect not.

 

[greaves]

I’m sorry but for a football journalist, he actually knows very little about football.

We only gave up 3 chances?! This was all they needed in order to win the game! They set up to stifle us and hit us on the break, not pretty but they did enough to win the game.

For all our dominance I can’t remember a single clear chance that we can look back on and say ‘we should have scored’.

Lots of possession but yet again no real cutting edge. Easy to set up against for a half decent side, hence that list of statistics about our form over the last half a season.

I love Ange, maybe over time we’ll improve, however without truly top class players, I suspect not.

I think that’s unfair on Gold. I think he knows an awful lot about football. He may not shout about it - he is quite humble and self-deprecating too. The issue is we are two strikers down, early in the season. That’s about it. The rest is (largely, but not entirely) hysteria and hyperbole. Give things time.

 

[worcestersauce]

I’m sorry but for a football journalist, he actually knows very little about football.

We only gave up 3 chances?! This was all they needed in order to win the game! They set up to stifle us and hit us on the break, not pretty but they did enough to win the game.

For all our dominance I can’t remember a single clear chance that we can look back on and say ‘we should have scored’.

Lots of possession but yet again no real cutting edge. Easy to set up against for a half decent side, hence that list of statistics about our form over the last half a season.

I love Ange, maybe over time we’ll improve, however without truly top class players, I suspect not.

So are you saying it was Radu Dragusin's fault?
If you're not then I can't see what your problem with Ali Gold's original question is, it was his first game of the season. As for his response, I agree with him that we should have had it buried at the other end based on the amount of possession we had in and around their box.

 

[Cambridge Spur]

So are you saying it was Radu Dragusin's fault?
If you're not then I can't see what your problem with Ali Gold's original question is, it was his first game of the season. As for his response, I agree with him that we should have had it buried at the other end based on the amount of possession we had in and around their box.

No I’m not saying that, I’m responding to his suggestion that only giving up 3 chances is some sort of badge of honour.

Newcastle did what they needed to do and it is clear that our possession based strategy is easy to combat.

 

[McFlash]

I’m sorry but for a football journalist, he actually knows very little about football.

We only gave up 3 chances?! This was all they needed in order to win the game! They set up to stifle us and hit us on the break, not pretty but they did enough to win the game.

For all our dominance I can’t remember a single clear chance that we can look back on and say ‘we should have scored’.

Lots of possession but yet again no real cutting edge. Easy to set up against for a half decent side, hence that list of statistics about our form over the last half a season.

I love Ange, maybe over time we’ll improve, however without truly top class players, I suspect not.

To be fair, how often does a chance like Barnes' get scored? It was a bit of a wonder strike.

The point is that we seem to be giving away less chances than we did last season, which surely points to an improvement, no?

And if/when we get an actual striker on the pitch, I'm sure we'll make more of what we are creating because as good as Son is, he doesn't have a strikers instinct in and around the box.
I do believe that if we had one of Solanke, Richy, or even Lankshear on the pitch against Newcastle, we'd have probably won that game.

 

[worcestersauce]

No I’m not saying that, I’m responding to his suggestion that only giving up 3 chances is some sort of badge of honour.

Newcastle did what they needed to do and it is clear that our possession based strategy is easy to combat.

But we couldn't score at the other end which is what led to the second goal, Bentancur, who replaced Bisouma presumably to protect the defence, committed himself in the opposition half failed to get near Joelington who took two steps forward and played the killer pass to Murphy. If we're not chasing a winner that doesn't happen.

 

[Cambridge Spur]

I think that’s unfair on Gold. I think he knows an awful lot about football. He may not shout about it - he is quite humble and self-deprecating too. The issue is we are two strikers down, early in the season. That’s about it. The rest is (largely, but not entirely) hysteria and hyperbole. Give things time.

Maybe I’m being a little harsh, I’m just struggling to see the positives at the moment.

 

[kmk]

Maybe I’m being a little harsh, I’m just struggling to see the positives at the moment.

Well you could compares yesterday’s performance against our previous two visits to SJP.

We had our arses handed to us on a plate. At least yesterday, we were the better team and were unlucky to lose.

 

[Cambridge Spur]

Well you could compares yesterday’s performance against our previous two visits to SJP.

We had our arses handed to us on a plate. At least yesterday, we were the better team and were unlucky to lose.

It’s not just yesterday’s performance though, it’s been quite a common theme. We’re often described as the ‘better team’ but I don’t really see it that way.

Anyway let’s hope that Ange cracks it and we gain that real cutting edge that we’re looking for.

 

[DogsOfWar]

Based on what level? It’s never been that simplistic. I do not believe we lost on the bases of a high line. It was more to do wit not doing more in the final third and Romero losing his concentration of which that has lead to 3 goals this season. He may not be up to speed yet with most of pre-season missed. I hope he can solve this to be truly world class and in the VanD for Liverpool level.

Division three (League one in new money) when I played academy football and from an ex-division one player who managed one of the senior teams I used to play for so I assume it was fairly standard practice in the professional game as it was throughout the footballing pyramid.
As I say it was common practice as a decent quality player can easily pick out a pass when given time and space so defenders were taught to go side on and drop/prepare to drop if this was the case.
But if the opposition were being put under pressure they would press higher to compress the play and pick up any poor passes/clearances.

These sort of goals are a chain of events, giving the ball away in the final third, not pressing the player breaking out with the ball, then not picking up the run, so there are other issues that could be fixed.
But until we get better quality forwards who don't give the ball away, better pressing CMs, and VdV playing going back to basics defensively would be the easiest solution.

 

[14/04/91]

Well you could compares yesterday’s performance against our previous two visits to SJP.

We had our arses handed to us on a plate. At least yesterday, we were the better team and were unlucky to lose.

I agree and there are definite signs things are heading in the right direction. But playing devils advocate, they’ve started the season poorly and their starting back 4 was weak.
We should be winning against sides like that in my opinion, although with Solanke playing we probably do.

 

[tevezito]

Just finished reading the whole thread. Not sure how Romero gets blamed for either goal. Both goals were due to a number of factors that fell into place:

Relaxing when ball goes out for a throw, two left sided defenders marking space rather than the on-rushing attacker, great finish.
Weak pressing by a tired Maddison, Bissouma unaware of the danger, Dragusin dropping too early and out of kilter with the high line - his is the biggest mistake, but that kind of thing can happen when the second choice comes in for their first game in the unit.

Just football being football and things that can clearly be improved upon quickly.

Truth is we have a mid table forward line

Well, we won't know this until all three of them are fit and actually play. And this will also bring clear and quick improvements. Lankshear's injury was really unfortunately timed, as he'd've probably got on second half and could easily have got himself a goal or two, then how we'd all be feeling?

Football is a ruthless game & patience won’t be long, if we see repeat patterns, due to lack of ready made quality.

Our window this summer suggest we’re playing the long game, but I don’t think that will bode well with the fans, if we don’t see an improvement on last season.

Then the fans are idiots. And I'd be extremely surprised and disappointed if the manager doesn't maintain the board's support, whatever happens this season.

Onwards and upwards.