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Newcastle buyout

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ajspurs

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2007
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I hate it. Just pure jealousy as I know I would have a very different opinion if it was us. Ultimately it will make the league harder and even getting into the champions league more challenging.

I think the same too, although I do also think at least we're in a position to have the capability to compete at the very top still. Mid-table teams or teams wanting to break into 'the elite' will feel worse off and even further away now.

I just wish that there was an effective cap in place that wouldn't enable these clubs to spend so ridiculously. It's crazy to see a relegation battling team like Newcastle all of a sudden in the headlines involving moves for the world's best players.
 

vegassd

The ghost of Johnny Cash
Aug 5, 2006
3,356
3,330
I don’t know why folks are worrying, as Levy says spending money doesn’t correlate with success. If they do start winning things it will be a coincidence just like Man City and Chelsea.
He talks about there being no direct correlation between the two, which is an important distinction and one that can be backed up by numbers. Two very simple examples of this would be Leicester and Sheffield over the past 5 years.

If the Newcastle takeover does go through it will be interesting to see what happens to them in regards to player spending and their success. I would argue that when Abramovich entered the game the league was much "softer" because it didn't have a well-funded Man City or a high-earning Spurs in it. It's a very different landscape to the one faced by Chelsea or even City.

If reports are true that they are willing to offer Poch a £19m salary that seems to signal their intention to spend big. If that is the case and they spend more on players than any other team then surely we would expect them to be successful straight away if we live in a world with a direct correlation between spending and success?
 

Gbspurs

Gatekeeper for debates, King of the plonkers
Jan 27, 2011
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How would we feel if this was us? I get why Geordies are excited. A takeover like this is basically the only hope they have of becoming the big club they think they are.

But at what cost?

Personally, I don't think I'd want anything to do with a club used to sportswash a human rights hellhole like Saudi Arabia. Easier said than done though, and the fans don't have much say in any of this.

It's easy to take this view when we are following a relatively successful team. I suspect if in 5 years we had been relegated a few times, were owned by a wankstain and managed by Steve Bruce we would happily be owned by the spirit Osama Bin Laden.

Let's face it, Newcastle fans know they have no hope of success any other way. If you can't beat them join them.
 

Hakkz

Svensk hetsporre
Jul 6, 2012
8,196
17,270
It's easy to take this view when we are following a relatively successful team. I suspect if in 5 years we had been relegated a few times, were owned by a wankstain and managed by Steve Bruce we would happily be owned by the spirit Osama Bin Laden.

Let's face it, Newcastle fans know they have no hope of success any other way. If you can't beat them join them.

I don't blame their fans, but I think this will just ruin football even more for me and make me less interested in the PL.
 

Gbspurs

Gatekeeper for debates, King of the plonkers
Jan 27, 2011
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I don't blame their fans, but I think this will just ruin football even more for me and make me less interested in the PL.

If we are still here after Man City and Chelsea we will still be here after the next one most likely.
 

thecook

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2009
5,576
10,966
I don’t know why folks are worrying, as Levy says spending money doesn’t correlate with success. If they do start winning things it will be a coincidence just like Man City and Chelsea.

Well I got the fact that your tongue was firmly planted in your cheek whilst typing that even if others didnt!
 

Hakkz

Svensk hetsporre
Jul 6, 2012
8,196
17,270
If we are still here after Man City and Chelsea we will still be here after the next one most likely.

Yeah but those two have already made me less interested in football. Right now I'm not missing the sport at all. If another plastic club joins the top race and makes "doing it the proper way" even more pointless then I might say fuck it.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,957
Man City only really became a success once they got the Barcelona guys into run it. Its all well and good chucking money at it but if they want to win the league and properly sports wash then they need to bring people in who know what they are doing.
 

King of Otters

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2012
10,751
36,093
It's easy to take this view when we are following a relatively successful team. I suspect if in 5 years we had been relegated a few times, were owned by a wankstain and managed by Steve Bruce we would happily be owned by the spirit Osama Bin Laden.

Let's face it, Newcastle fans know they have no hope of success any other way. If you can't beat them join them.

Yeah, I agree. Can't really blame Toon fans for lapping this up.
 

vegassd

The ghost of Johnny Cash
Aug 5, 2006
3,356
3,330
Well I got the fact that your tongue was firmly planted in your cheek whilst typing that even if others didnt!
Nope... he meant that seriously. Hence the backing up of the post and general post history.
 

RichieS

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2004
11,916
16,436
If we are still here after Man City and Chelsea we will still be here after the next one most likely.
Yeah but those two have already made me less interested in football. Right now I'm not missing the sport at all. If another plastic club joins the top race and makes "doing it the proper way" even more pointless then I might say fuck it.
Part of me thinks we've taken "doing it the right way" as far as it can go in the modern game, but then I consider Liverpool and remember that FSG run them in a very similar way to how ENIC run us but, until very recently, have had more revenue to play with. But then I also remember that the turning point for them was the overhaul of the spine of their team largely funded by the sale of Coutinho, the fee for who you could put down as being a massive slice of good fortune.

Another genuine moneybags team being allowed to circumvent FFP just long enough to cement their position at the top of the league in the same way Man City were just puts us further away from ever winning the league imo. I really hope Levy is using this downtime to reflect on what has driven our progress under him and realises that he needs to reboot the football side of things with Arnesen 2020. Then at least then we'd have the chance to maximise the effectiveness of our substantial but not unlimited wealth.
 

kendoddsdadsdogsdead

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2011
2,140
3,574
He talks about there being no direct correlation between the two, which is an important distinction and one that can be backed up by numbers. Two very simple examples of this would be Leicester and Sheffield over the past 5 years.

If the Newcastle takeover does go through it will be interesting to see what happens to them in regards to player spending and their success. I would argue that when Abramovich entered the game the league was much "softer" because it didn't have a well-funded Man City or a high-earning Spurs in it. It's a very different landscape to the one faced by Chelsea or even City.

If reports are true that they are willing to offer Poch a £19m salary that seems to signal their intention to spend big. If that is the case and they spend more on players than any other team then surely we would expect them to be successful straight away if we live in a world with a direct correlation between spending and success?

On the minutes it says little correlation which he signed off on. Unless direct is from a different interview?

In any case you’re confusing direct with immediate. Obviously you wouldn’t expect Newcastle to win the league next season but they could give it a good go at silverware if they bought enough top end players. in any case even If they do take 2/3 years to win titles that is a direct result of spending.

Leicester was a freak and sheff U are 3/4 of a way through a good season, that’s it, where everyone apart from the top 3 have been very inconsistent. I have doubts they can sustain that when the PL novelty wears off and if they don’t invest. A little like Bournemouth maybe. What are the numbers that back it up?
 

Hakkz

Svensk hetsporre
Jul 6, 2012
8,196
17,270
Part of me thinks we've taken "doing it the right way" as far as it can go in the modern game, but then I consider Liverpool and remember that FSG run them in a very similar way to how ENIC run us but, until very recently, have had more revenue to play with. But then I also remember that the turning point for them was the overhaul of the spine of their team largely funded by the sale of Coutinho, the fee for who you could put down as being a massive slice of good fortune.

Another genuine moneybags team being allowed to circumvent FFP just long enough to cement their position at the top of the league in the same way Man City were just puts us further away from ever winning the league imo. I really hope Levy is using this downtime to reflect on what has driven our progress under him and realises that he needs to reboot the football side of things with Arnesen 2020. Then at least then we'd have the chance to maximise the effectiveness of our substantial but not unlimited wealth.

We need to look at the Red bull setup. They are obviously using their minor affiliates to feed Leipzig, but their scouting is crazy good.

Liverpool have also had a really big income from their enormous fan base despite having a very average decade.
 

kendoddsdadsdogsdead

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2011
2,140
3,574
Of course there's a correlation between money spent and success, if it weren't we wouldn't have a situation where the six clubs with largest revenue streams were odds on to finish as the top six every season. There is absolutely no coincidence that City and Chelsea started winning titles when they spent more money than everyone else.

What is true is that spending money doesn't guarantee success, and money has to be spent smartly. If you don't spend smartly you end up like Man United for most of the last seven years, massively underperforming because they just throw money around without a plan of how to fit players into a team. We don't know how well Newcastle will spend, or even if they can spend big without falling foul of FFP rules if they aren't relaxed due to the virus situation. What we know is that an influx of cash will give them a huge advantage compared with the Ashley reign.

absolutely, agree although you have to say all that money Utd randomly threw about did land them a couple of cups.
 

Gbspurs

Gatekeeper for debates, King of the plonkers
Jan 27, 2011
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We need to look at the Red bull setup. They are obviously using their minor affiliates to feed Leipzig, but their scouting is crazy good.

Liverpool have also had a really big income from their enormous fan base despite having a very average decade.

This is often said, same about Ajax before than and Dortmund before that. The problem is these teams model is based on selling their star players to fund future signings. The lack of competition in their leagues allows them to do this whilst still performing and it's necessary for them to keep the cash coming in as they arent doped by TV companies.

We have plenty of money coming so we don't need to sell top players and we risk falling further behind our rivals if we need to always develop players. That's before the fans accept that we sell our top players every year which I can't imagine being accepted given this countries stigma about "selling clubs".

It's just not feasible in our league at our level.
 

Hakkz

Svensk hetsporre
Jul 6, 2012
8,196
17,270
This is often said, same about Ajax before than and Dortmund before that. The problem is these teams model is based on selling their star players to fund future signings. The lack of competition in their leagues allows them to do this whilst still performing and it's necessary for them to keep the cash coming in as they arent doped by TV companies.

We have plenty of money coming so we don't need to sell top players and we risk falling further behind our rivals if we need to always develop players. That's before the fans accept that we sell our top players every year which I can't imagine being accepted given this countries stigma about "selling clubs".

It's just not feasible in our league at our level.

I agree to an extent. But their scouting isn't only about signing cheap players to make a profit. They also sign players that suit the clubs and systems perfectly. As I said, the scouting itself is crazy good. The reason why clubs like Dortmund work while they sell of their big players is that everyone knows that they will identify a new superstar, I would not trust us with that at the moment.
 

Gbspurs

Gatekeeper for debates, King of the plonkers
Jan 27, 2011
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I agree to an extent. But their scouting isn't only about signing cheap players to make a profit. They also sign players that suit the clubs and systems perfectly. As I said, the scouting itself is crazy good. The reason why clubs like Dortmund work while they sell of their big players is that everyone knows that they will identify a new superstar, I would not trust us with that at the moment.

I don't think the issue is finding a new superstar it's giving them the time to develop. Look at Ndombele this year, you have a majority of fans who want him out despite him clearly being talented. Or Sessegnon who is just a kid in his first season for us but people already writing him off. We simply wouldn't give any players long enough to settle and develop into a talent so the whole thing is pointless.
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,886
32,513
The best teams, league wise, in the last few years have been the ones that have been tactically the best, and have the players for the way they are playing.

Leicester - Might have been a total freak and unsustainable performance, but their sit deep and then counter with Mahrez and Vardy approach was lethal. Every player fitted their role in the tactic.

Chelsea - This team didn't play great football for large spells of a game, but under Conte they had the back three with two sat in front providing the sturdy, Italian defensive performance, wingbacks and inside forwards providing overloads and rapid and efficient counter attacks.

Man City - May have been helped by money, but so far ahead microtactically. When they got the players that could play Guardiola's high level positional play game, plus the subtle tweaks they make to their game plan in order to expose weaknesses spotted in the opponents, has made several teams look silly and they ran rampant for a couple of years.

Liverpool - Klopp eventually found the right balance between pressing and how to manage a 38 game season. Rock solid tactically, everyone can run their bollocks off and play at intensity, and fit their approach to the game.

Money has helped some of these teams, but hasn't helped others in this time. What they've got right is the joined up thinking, rock solid tactics with players across the board who have suited them. 99% of football teams are reactive, think short term, and just generally don't manage to operate in this fashion and have too many idiots in charge of them.

Take us even, we took large strides forward, and had our best spell in god knows how many years, because everything was pointing in the right direction. Manager wanted to play high press, intense football, he could get those ideas over, we had every player on the pitch buying in and able to do that. Front four pressed like bastards, cm2 anchored, Wingbacks covered every blade of grass up the touchline, centre backs could step up and squeeze the space, keeper swept up. We started to falter when that wasn't the case, certain players start slacking off, others declined, replacements were often barely suited to what we wanted to do. It got shoddy, what we've done is the reason we've slipped, or don't compete currently, rather than other teams having more money. If someone at the club gets a fucking grip and gets things all lined up in the right direction again then we can very easily go back on an upward trajectory.
 
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