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Jose Mourinho

How do you feel about Mourinho appointment

  • Excited - silverware here we come baby

    Votes: 666 46.7%
  • Meh - will give him a chance and hope he is successful

    Votes: 468 32.8%
  • Horrified - praying for the day he'll fuck off

    Votes: 292 20.5%

  • Total voters
    1,426

IamSpurtacus

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2019
1,487
7,011
Wonder if you'd have the same opinion had Poch picked one up. Winning anything is a step in the right direction and could well change the mentality of the players. To a club that's winning everything it's of course going to be less significant. To a team that's won nothing for ages it would be huge.

Vincent Kompany cited City's winning of their first FA Cup in 2011 as critical on their path to the success they've enjoyed since then

It was their first major trophy in 40 years

He said it gave the team the feeling of what it took to win, get over the line and feel success

The next year they won the league

I'm not sure the league cup would have the same effect, but winning the FA Cup - which has been dominated by the previous "Big Four" over the last 20 years could have a similar impact for Spurs

In the 1980's we were second only to a great Liverpool team in terms of major trophies won - i'd love to have that feeling again...

It's why Poch's attitude towards it was so infuriating - and perhaps why we always came up short in big games - in the Cups and league - because we never developed that feeling, or had a manager who cared to
 

spurs mental

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2007
25,075
49,234
One of the challenges if you ascribe to the idea that bill Nicholson set the standard for what this club is about, then winning ugly or losing pretty both don't work.

“If you don’t win anything, you have had a bad season.”
“It’s no use just winning, we’ve got to win well.”
“We must always consider our supporters, for without them there would be no professional football. It would be better to have more fans watching football the way they like it played, rather than have a few fans watching football the way we would like it played.”


As someone who was against his signing, I'm more than willing to give him time to see if he adopts and adapts to the club's culture. Jose has likely prioritized winning over beauty for pragmatic reasons - money for purchases and creating an environment that attracts players. Much of that environment is already in place - practice pitches, stadium and fans (for the most part but some of you lot........) but it is far from the complete deal. If his vision of the club stops at winning trophies but winning ugly, then my support for him, not the club, will be lukewarm.

But if his vision starts at winning trophies and playing a beautiful game, then i'm all in. Counter attacking football can be beautiful and free flowing with the right players, right strategy and a common understanding between them. Is there anything more beautiful when players are on the same page playing counter intuitively but knowing instinctively what the other is going to do leaving the defenders flummoxed? (That is one reason the lack of movement from our forwards is so disturbing.) As long as there is a positive trend in one of these (short term) and both of these long term, he's got my solid support.

What is our clubs culture though? This has been done to death in this thread over the last few days. I think you should read back over some of the posts. It might give you a different view on our actual culture.
 

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
1, I said these days

2, Poch with I presume the boards backing rotated for the cups demonstrating their perceived value

3, I have seen major squad rotations for the cups go way down the divisions in recent years.

4, Wenger got sacked on the back of 3 FA cup wins iirc.
1. I still insist ‘in your opinion’.
2. Doesn’t mean her was right. Guardiola and Mourinho have cvs littered with domestic trophies in recent history.
3. In most cases it’s been either because the squads are too thin to cope with multiple competitions, or the direct opposite, because it’s the only way to keep larger squads happy.
4. Wenger wasn’t sacked.
 

Goobers

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
1,953
3,165
The future culture is the club is malleable. The previous culture is written in history. If we start becoming regular trophy challengers the culture will change because of it as will that if the players. I don’t see how one can change without the other.
 

freeeki

Arsehole.
Aug 5, 2008
11,836
69,426
In the 1980's we were second only to a great Liverpool team in terms of major trophies won - i'd love to have that feeling again...

It's why Poch's attitude towards it was so infuriating - and perhaps why we always came up short in big games - in the Cups and league - because we never developed that feeling, or had a manager who cared to

This is exactly it.

It's all very well for those who remember us in the 1960s onwards to get precious over playing the "right" kind of football and winning naff all at the end of it.

But for those like me who can only remember us winning two trophies (I'm 33), I don't actually care about the style. I don't care if we play like Stoke. I just want us to win things.

I want to be on here in 20 years time when we're in League Two and be smug as shit about living through the Mourinho glory years where we won everything. Because I can guarantee you, if that happens, we won't care how we got there.

We'll all remember last year's CL final forever. It was a bit of a shit game, overall, irrespective of the result. Turgid and tedious. But you'll struggle to find a single Liverpool fan who gives a toss about that - because they won the cup at the end.

The mentality of how glorious it is to be an entertaining loser might be good enough for some of you, but it isn't for most fans my age and below.
 

PeeEyeEmPee

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
1,925
3,125
I missed all these yesterday, for some reason

Those trophies compare extremely favorably to the close but no cigar trophy we won in 2016/17 followed up by the almost silverware we picked up last May.

Who would you say that was available, based on their managerial records, would be more likely to win something here?

I agree that Mourinho's stock has fallen, otherwise he wouldn't be with us in the first place. I also agree that its is likelier that he will repeat his old antics eventually and will crash and burn, 3 seasons tops. I hope he has reflected on his recent failures; I imagine it's very difficult for someone with his ego to actually think less of himself and act accordingly, especially given the stress and media exposure of the job.

I think you'd also agree though that experience and meticulous planning counts, especially in big games. He is a great tactician at setting us up to defend and counter, which suits our aging squad anyway. I think he is the right man for the upcoming austerity period for us (in terms of big name signings); he will steady us and hopefully get us CL/Europa for the next few seasons, and when he gets back to his old antics we can then appoint someone else to really change how we play.

I don't need to spin it. We've won fuck all for 20 years. He's consistently won trophies everywhere he's been.

I only need to lol at the poll at the top of the page to know some on here are going to argue negatives at every given opportunity.

They are going to recite Bill Nic quotes, and wax lyrical about "the Tottenham way". At the same time completely missing the irony of calling Jose a footballing dinosaur.


Is he the right man for the job? I don't know but at least give the guy a chance.

Anyone that says " league cup and europa cup does not scream serial winner " from where I am sitting it is screaming out that this man is a winner also saying that it was 3 years ago are not taking into account that he took an 18 month sabbatical .
Some people talk as if we were or are serial winners when the reality is we are serial failures .
Just get real please we have a chance with Jose to win something .
All these other names Dyche / Potter / Hassenthal / and the many other names mentioned have one thing in common and that is they have won NOTHING . Why people can't get behind this bloke and give him a chance is beyond me .

I think I've said a few times that I'm not against him being given time, and I'm not calling for him to be sacked. He probably is the biggest name we could've brought in, but I'm personally not a fan and didn't want him here. I can understand why many are though.

I guess my issue is with the dismissal of perfectly legitimate concerns about his toxicity and/or playing style on the basis of him being a winner. He WAS a winner, in that there was a time you could bet your entire house on his teams winning major trophies, but those days are now behind him. Man U fans defended him to the hilt when he got there, and many of them were prepared to put up with his antagonistic methods and drab football because they thought it would eventually lead to success. But by the end, they just couldn't wait for it all to be over.

All I'm saying is there's a very high chance the risk outweighs the reward with him these days, so it isn't unreasonable to not think everything will work out in time.
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,232
57,392
This is exactly it.

It's all very well for those who remember us in the 1960s onwards to get precious over playing the "right" kind of football and winning naff all at the end of it.

But for those like me who can only remember us winning two trophies (I'm 33), I don't actually care about the style. I don't care if we play like Stoke. I just want us to win things.

I want to be on here in 20 years time when we're in League Two and be smug as shit about living through the Mourinho glory years where we won everything. Because I can guarantee you, if that happens, we won't care how we got there.

We'll all remember last year's CL final forever. It was a bit of a shit game, overall, irrespective of the result. Turgid and tedious. But you'll struggle to find a single Liverpool fan who gives a toss about that - because they won the cup at the end.

The mentality of how glorious it is to be an entertaining loser might be good enough for some of you, but it isn't for most fans my age and below.

Not arguing with you but I'd add that the details of the CL will, or have already disappeared from the memory, but every Spurs fans will have great memories of Bale taking Maicon to the cleaners (as an example). Memorable moments aren't just attached to bits of silverware.
 

-Afri-Coy-

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2012
5,838
18,570
I missed all these yesterday, for some reason











I think I've said a few times that I'm not against him being given time, and I'm not calling for him to be sacked. He probably is the biggest name we could've brought in, but I'm personally not a fan and didn't want him here. I can understand why many are though.

I guess my issue is with the dismissal of perfectly legitimate concerns about his toxicity and/or playing style on the basis of him being a winner. He WAS a winner, in that there was a time you could bet your entire house on his teams winning major trophies, but those days are now behind him. Man U fans defended him to the hilt when he got there, and many of them were prepared to put up with his antagonistic methods and drab football because they thought it would eventually lead to success. But by the end, they just couldn't wait for it all to be over.

All I'm saying is there's a very high chance the risk outweighs the reward with him these days, so it isn't unreasonable to not think everything will work out in time.

If things don’t work out then we will be exactly where we were when Poch left, and with no real transfer funds or stadium revenue it’s probably not all that bad given we will be 2 years into our financial recovery.

I could go on at length about how toxic the players, and boards are at Chelsea, United and Madrid and I could also go on at length about why things didn’t work out 100% for him there but one thing I can and will say is that he has NEVER failed to deliver silverware.

It is by no means a guarantee that he will deliver trophies for us but I’d bet we have a much much higher chance under his guidance than pretty much anyone else out there except for maybe Pep and Klopp.
 

Matthew

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2012
4,597
15,867
Interesting that Steve Bruce said that was the best Newcastle have played for a long time, despite it being the first time they have lost at home since 1st Jan. Bruce also thought we were excellent. When we drew with Man U after defending excellently everyone said it was a poor Man U team who were struggling to score. They subsequently scored 18 goals in their next 6 games. We beat Arsenal, but critics said 'yeah but Arsenal are weak', then Arsenal go and beat Liverpool. Our abberation away at Sheff Utd was considered to be against a poor team, who have subsequently beaten both Wolves and Chelsea with clean sheets. We have won 4, drawn 2 and lost 1 of the 7 games since the restart. We would be third if the season started the week JM took over. I got very angry after the Sheff Utd and Bournemouth performances as I felt we showed far too little ambition or fluidity. Two of the worst performances I have seen since the 4 consecutive 0-0's under George Graham in the mid nineties. Emotionally, I wanted JM as far away from our club as possible. But considering we played 4 games with only two days rest between each, each tiem with the opponent having more rest, I can understand how we played. Now I am seeing things differently and think he does need time. Give him a DCM, new full backs and a back up CF, and I think we can challenge.

fickle fucker :cautious:
 

soflapaul

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
8,875
14,963
What is our clubs culture though? This has been done to death in this thread over the last few days. I think you should read back over some of the posts. It might give you a different view on our actual culture.

thanks for the advice and will attempt to read a little more closely in the immediate future. My haphazard reading of the posts in here over the last several weeks suggested that there was some "either/or" going on rather than a "both/and". Hence, the post was an attempt to remind others of the standards our club used to hold for itself. Knowing that everyone didn't agree with that, a qualifier was used, "if you ascribe to the idea that Bill Nicholson set the standard" in the original post.

If and when a finer standard for a club comes along, I'll switch but it is hard to imagine a better one. My vote is only one vote, so it is silly for me to expect that will be the standard going forward but there is always hope. For now, i'll keep my rose colored glasses and be a "remainer" in that regards and hopefully see continued improvement in terms of outcomes and style on the pitch.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
I missed all these yesterday, for some reason











I think I've said a few times that I'm not against him being given time, and I'm not calling for him to be sacked. He probably is the biggest name we could've brought in, but I'm personally not a fan and didn't want him here. I can understand why many are though.

I guess my issue is with the dismissal of perfectly legitimate concerns about his toxicity and/or playing style on the basis of him being a winner. He WAS a winner, in that there was a time you could bet your entire house on his teams winning major trophies, but those days are now behind him. Man U fans defended him to the hilt when he got there, and many of them were prepared to put up with his antagonistic methods and drab football because they thought it would eventually lead to success. But by the end, they just couldn't wait for it all to be over.

All I'm saying is there's a very high chance the risk outweighs the reward with him these days, so it isn't unreasonable to not think everything will work out in time.

For Man Utd it did lead to success for them, he won trophies that is literally the point, if he achieves the same or a similar or even a lesser level of success it's indefinitely better than what we've achieved in the last 20 years, it's really that simple.

Even if he leaves us in a state of toxity (what manager doesn't leave a club like that) we'd be in a far better position that what we're in now, you keep trying to spin this argument to suit your narrative and it just doesn't work.
 

Metalhead

But that's a debate for another thread.....
Nov 24, 2013
25,352
38,295
One of the challenges if you ascribe to the idea that bill Nicholson set the standard for what this club is about, then winning ugly or losing pretty both don't work.

“If you don’t win anything, you have had a bad season.”
“It’s no use just winning, we’ve got to win well.”
“We must always consider our supporters, for without them there would be no professional football. It would be better to have more fans watching football the way they like it played, rather than have a few fans watching football the way we would like it played.”


As someone who was against his signing, I'm more than willing to give him time to see if he adopts and adapts to the club's culture. Jose has likely prioritized winning over beauty for pragmatic reasons - money for purchases and creating an environment that attracts players. Much of that environment is already in place - practice pitches, stadium and fans (for the most part but some of you lot........) but it is far from the complete deal. If his vision of the club stops at winning trophies but winning ugly, then my support for him, not the club, will be lukewarm.

But if his vision starts at winning trophies and playing a beautiful game, then i'm all in. Counter attacking football can be beautiful and free flowing with the right players, right strategy and a common understanding between them. Is there anything more beautiful when players are on the same page playing counter intuitively but knowing instinctively what the other is going to do leaving the defenders flummoxed? (That is one reason the lack of movement from our forwards is so disturbing.) As long as there is a positive trend in one of these (short term) and both of these long term, he's got my solid support.
I know that you wanted to qualify the historical quotes attributed to Bill Nicholson, which is only right and proper. With due deference to a true legend of our club - legend being an overused term these days, in my mind we need to think forward and whilst the basic fundamentals of the game remain, it has moved on massively over the last 60 years.

Your concerns are obviously valid ones and even those who are ‘ok’ with Jose anyway are certainly, judging by the comments aware that this is not the end point, the culmination of what Jose/Joao Sacramento are trying to achieve. If it is then the concern would almost certainly be with 100% of fans. Where I think that there might be confusion or misunderstanding is that even the most ardent Jose fan knows that we won’t be seeing football from the best of the Poch era. What people are expecting is also not what we are seeing right now but something approximating the football under Jose where his teams ruthlessly dismissed the opposition (but presumably with some kind of update courtesy of Sacramento who had sought to implement said style at Lille). Obviously the question mark remains over whether the club can get in the kind of quality necessary to achieve that. Jose clearly thinks that there is scope to achieve what he needs to with the current team plus a few additions. Who knows whether it will work - time will tell but as long as he is here then I know that I personally want him to succeed only because that means the club has succeeded.
 

Tucker

Shitehawk
Jul 15, 2013
31,131
146,026
We’ve had two genuinely good sides since I’ve been supporting Spurs (I’m not counting the 91 team because that’s when I started supporting them because of Gazza.) The Harry Side with Bale, Modric, VDV, Crouchy etc And the Poch side of the last few years. Neither team won anything, and it’s a great shame that both Harry and Poch never won an FA Cup or a League Cup. They both competed in finals and semi finals but it came to nought. If they’d won cups to go along with how well they played those teams would have gone down in Spurs history. Instead they’ll both be remembered as almost men, alongside the 87 side that I’m told nearly won the league.

If Mourinho can get us winning things, this side could be great. An FA Cup or a League cup would make a huge difference to us imo.
 

soflapaul

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
8,875
14,963
But for those like me who can only remember us winning two trophies (I'm 33), I don't actually care about the style. I don't care if we play like Stoke. I just want us to win things.
The mentality of how glorious it is to be an entertaining loser might be good enough for some of you, but it isn't for most fans my age and below.

Freeki - i'm not sure that anyone holds up the standard of being an entertaining loser. Those that want to be true to the prior soul of the club insist on winning and winning well. To me, its like baking a cake. The ingredients have to be done in the right order with winning coming first as it brings in the money, the stature that allows flexibility to attack the second part of the problem, entertaining, more effectively. So if we figure out that we can play like Stoke and win trophies for years to come but never make the final step to entertainment, I will support but not love what the club has become. It's like your spouse growing away from what you loved about him/her in the first place. You still love them with everything you have, but it isn't the same.

Not arguing with you but I'd add that the details of the CL will, or have already disappeared from the memory, but every Spurs fans will have great memories of Bale taking Maicon to the cleaners (as an example). Memorable moments aren't just attached to bits of silverware.

Add to that the second half of the Ajax game. So while everyone of us remembers exactly where we were when Liverpool scored its first goal in the final, we can also remember where we were on Lucas's third goal in the semi. As bad as the final was, that memory of the team running into the corner while the Ajax players lay on the pitch can only be described as ecstasy. Perhaps it is most accurate to say that it is possible to appreciate our run in the CL but not accept it as the be all end all event for Spurs. We must want more.
 
Last edited:

Jaddas

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2008
588
3,790
Jose's points per game compared to his rivals:

Liverpool - 2.46
Man City - 2.08
Man Utd - 1.87
Spurs - 1.70

It's better than I thought it would be. Also quite impressive when you factor in no striker for a number of matches (when Kane & Son were injured) which resulted in that bad run for around 6/7 matches.
 

soflapaul

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
8,875
14,963
I know that you wanted to qualify the historical quotes attributed to Bill Nicholson, which is only right and proper. With due deference to a true legend of our club - legend being an overused term these days, in my mind we need to think forward and whilst the basic fundamentals of the game remain, it has moved on massively over the last 60 years.

You couldn't be more right. It might not be possible to play winning, beautiful, free flowing football unless you have a salary structure that attracts the Galacticos. I'm not advocating a style of play so much as a style of thinking. If winning with free flowing (undisciplined) is impossible, then another style of play is perfectly fine as long as it attempts to win and win well. Hence, counter-attacking play is perfectly acceptable since the beauty of the game is both physical and mental. If Jose's new method of play is based on Stoke though, no thank you. On the counter attacking front, while our passing leaves quite a bit to be desired at the moment, some of our counter attacks have been mesmerizing. And to me, (a former striker), it's just as beautiful to see a forward force a defender to make a bad decision by using his brain as it is to see a rare bit of skill that has the same result.
 

LeParisien

Wrong about everything
Mar 5, 2018
3,212
8,169
Then you obviously ignored the part where is said 'tactical/technical' players.

Yes he's very technical but he isn't technical in an off the ball sense and he's probably the least tactical player we have.
Tactic and technic two different things ... Ndombele has got abundance of technic on the ball but he is not tactical that you can't play him anywhere in the midfield ... Tactic is for setting the team and technique is player's own ability ...
I’ve coached at a good level - Ross I know you coach too... I don’t know what a tactical player is.

Ndombélé isn’t just a player who can execute a scissor kick or take a volley on his weak foot over his shoulder. He has phenomenal awareness of how players are moving around him and passes the ball with perfect weight to take advantage of that movement ie plays intelligent / killer balls. That seems to me to be a tactical player with the ball.

Unless all you meant was he doesn’t work hard enough off the ball. But both Poch and mourinho expect that so it’s not a pertinent difference,
 
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