Jose Mourinho

[Twizzle]

We narrowly lost to Liverpool and actually should have gotten something but were wasteful in front of goal. We beat City. We were dreadful v Chelsea. We drew with United and could have won but for a soft soft penalty. We beat Arsenal. Does this make any sense to you?


Edit:

Would people honestly prefer to see us try and play open expansive football and concede a ton of goals and maybe score a few more goals?

so we beat 1 top team, yeh he's made a huge difference

I cant believe you ranked the goons along with those "top teams"

 

[Stamford]

yeh he has, with clubs with unlimited funds and considerably better squads than we have, and been sacked by all of them

sorry, just not a fan and he wont last here in my humble opinion

99 percent of managers get sacked, that's a ridiculous point. It's what they do while they are there that counts and he has won consistently. You would think we had a history of winning things the way some are carrying on

 

[Wils]

1999 mate

oops i forgot about that one, but you see my point, 3 cups in almost 3 decades is no where good enough

 

[Metalhead]

Good man, or woman or indeed whichever gender you associate with.

Covered all your bases for you.

 

[Metalhead]

If that's your understanding of what I'm saying, then I'm not quite sure where we go from here.

I'm not against Mourinho being given more time, but I just don't understand this assumption (from some) that we'll eventually win things if he is. His reputation as a "guaranteed" winner was largely built on the early part of his career, and both the number and prestige of trophies he's won in recent years have reduced. That's just fact. Can he win things with us? Possibly, but it's by no means the certainty or high likelihood some seem to think. Ordinarily, you put up with the toxicity and boring football if it means winning, but I don't think it's a given it will here. I think there's far greater chance of him leaving amid a shitstorm just as he's done at Real, Chelsea and Man U in his last three jobs.

I'm happy to be proven wrong, of course, but I don't see how anyone can objectively disagree with the above

Has anyone actually said that we’ll definitely win things under him? Anyone who has said that he’ll definitely win things would need a crystal ball and I look forward to receiving a DM with Friday’s euromillion numbers. Plenty have pointed to his record, which isn’t the same as saying that he’ll definitely win trophies.

 

[Metalhead]

oops i forgot about that one, but you see my point, 3 cups in almost 3 decades is no where good enough

Certainly not for any club which considers elite. Off the pitch we are elite in certain ways but certainly not on it In terms of trophies.

 

[Shadydan]

@Twizzle When Mourinho wins a trophy

 

[Jamturk]

Highly subjective but that’s a ludicrous thing to state as fact. It’s your opinion and that’s fine.

1, I said these days

2, Poch with I presume the boards backing rotated for the cups demonstrating their perceived value

3, I have seen major squad rotations for the cups go way down the divisions in recent years.

4, Wenger got sacked on the back of 3 FA cup wins iirc.

 

[buckley]

There are 5 major trophies available to be won 3 domestic 2 european not counting Charity shield and the cup that has the winners of the champion league and the winners of the europa cup and so generally 5 cups .
Clubs entering the league cup =92
Clubs entering the fa cup really its only serious when down to the last 32
The league 20 clubs
UEFA cup once into the league stage 48 clubs then when down to 24 plus 8 3rd place C/L group stage
Champions league group stages 32 clubs.
So to me the odds are seriously against winning any trophy and Mourhino has won 21 of these cups in that same time we had won nil cups
and people want to disregard with arrogance and misguided self importance two of those cups the worlds gone crazy .
Anybody willing only to accept Champions league or league title as the real deal all I can say I hope you live to a ripe old age because it could be a long wait . In the meantime myself and my sons will celebrate like mad if we were to win a domestic cup and be grateful for it .

 

[buckley]

By the way Its true Wenger got sacked after winning 3 cups and look at them now .
Part of the reason he got sacked was the Arsenals supporters inflated view of themselves as a club and felt they should be challenging for the champions league and the premier league .
Sometimes a dose of reality does not go amiss because there are a lot of people who feel they are entitled .

 

[tiger666]

Audi Cup yo

 

[spurs mental]

There are 5 major trophies available to be won 3 domestic 2 european not counting Charity shield and the cup that has the winners of the champion league and the winners of the europa cup and so generally 5 cups .
Clubs entering the league cup =92
Clubs entering the fa cup really its only serious when down to the last 32
The league 20 clubs
UEFA cup once into the league stage 48 clubs then when down to 24 plus 8 3rd place C/L group stage
Champions league group stages 32 clubs.
So to me the odds are seriously against winning any trophy and Mourhino has won 21 of these cups in that same time we had won nil cups
and people want to disregard with arrogance and misguided self importance two of those cups the worlds gone crazy .
Anybody willing only to accept Champions league or league title as the real deal all I can say I hope you live to a ripe old age because it could be a long wait . In the meantime myself and my sons will celebrate like mad if we were to win a domestic cup and be grateful for it .

You'd not hear from me for a solid 48 hour period if we won something. Been waiting too long.

 

[Shadydan]

1, I said these days

2, Poch with I presume the boards backing rotated for the cups demonstrating their perceived value

3, I have seen major squad rotations for the cups go way down the divisions in recent years.

4, Wenger got sacked on the back of 3 FA cup wins iirc.

As a fan of a team who has won the square root of fudge, I hope you realise how stupid and utterly entitled this sounds.

 

[spids]

By the way Its true Wenger got sacked after winning 3 cups and look at them now .
Part of the reason he got sacked was the Arsenals supporters inflated view of themselves as a club and felt they should be challenging for the champions league and the premier league .
Sometimes a dose of reality does not go amiss because there are a lot of people who feel they are entitled .

Arsenal stopped being competitive as a top team when they built a new stadium to increase long term revenues but then found they could not compete with the financially doped clubs (Chelsea and Man C) to maintain their first team squad as their top players aged / left. Once they fell out of the top 4 and lost CL revenues they were effectively finished as a top team. Their plan was undone by a combination of Man C being taken over and financially doped, and our resurgence as a PL force. That made top 4 suddenly a lot harder to achieve than they had anticipated. It is then a vicious circle ... no CL, top players leave, lose £50-100M of revenue, cannot afford top players, no CL, cannot attract top players....

We are now on a similar trajectory. I hope Levy realises this and that significant investment is now required otherwise the gap grows bigger each year.

 

[Jamturk]

As a fan of a team who has won the square root of fudge, I hope you realise how stupid and utterly entitled this sounds.

Trophies aren't that important to me, the amount of pride I had when Poch turned us into a team playing great football was unprecedented as a Spurs supporter of 43 years.

 

[spurs mental]

Trophies aren't that important to me, the amount of pride I had when Poch turned us into a team playing great football was unprecedented as a Spurs supporter of 43 years.

The game is about glory.

 

[emiley heskey]

Trophies aren't that important to me, the amount of pride I had when Poch turned us into a team playing great football was unprecedented as a Spurs supporter of 43 years.

What pride? Challenging title for two seasons and failing to get it that pride? Losing fa cup semi final for two years that pride? Or losing carabao cup final ? Or losing the ucl final by surrendering it to pool? Is this what your pride is?

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

If that's your understanding of what I'm saying, then I'm not quite sure where we go from here.

I'm not against Mourinho being given more time, but I just don't understand this assumption (from some) that we'll eventually win things if he is. His reputation as a "guaranteed" winner was largely built on the early part of his career, and both the number and prestige of trophies he's won in recent years have reduced. That's just fact. Can he win things with us? Possibly, but it's by no means the certainty or high likelihood some seem to think. Ordinarily, you put up with the toxicity and boring football if it means winning, but I don't think it's a given it will here. I think there's far greater chance of him leaving amid a shitstorm just as he's done at Real, Chelsea and Man U in his last three jobs.

I'm happy to be proven wrong, of course, but I don't see how anyone can objectively disagree with the above

I have put the word reduced in bold:

So because the amount of trophies he has won recently and as you say, prestige, has dropped its an indication that he can't to the same with us? You do realize he was still winning trophies regardless of the quantity or quality, So how on earth is his reputation as a guaranteed winner based on his past achievements? He is literally still a winner as long as he wins trophies. This is exactly why most of us believe he will deliver for us too.

He literally won 2 trophies 2 years ago. And not some participation trophies either, he won the EL and the FA Cup. I would snap your hand off if you offered it too me next season. Our trophy cabinet is empty as it stands in the modern era.

I'm not even going to go into your other reasons like "shitstorm" and such because clearly you are not being objective and taking the entire situations he faced at those clubs into perspective when you say those things. But just to say it, Jose is not the demon the media has made him out to be, I went into this at length before he signed for us so I am not going to waste my time again.

Lets just agree to disagree and see where he takes us. I believe we are heading in the right direction.

 

[buckley]

Bravo

 

[soflapaul]

The game is about glory.

One of the challenges if you ascribe to the idea that bill Nicholson set the standard for what this club is about, then winning ugly or losing pretty both don't work.

“If you don’t win anything, you have had a bad season.”
“It’s no use just winning, we’ve got to win well.”
“We must always consider our supporters, for without them there would be no professional football. It would be better to have more fans watching football the way they like it played, rather than have a few fans watching football the way we would like it played.”

As someone who was against his signing, I'm more than willing to give him time to see if he adopts and adapts to the club's culture. Jose has likely prioritized winning over beauty for pragmatic reasons - money for purchases and creating an environment that attracts players. Much of that environment is already in place - practice pitches, stadium and fans (for the most part but some of you lot........) but it is far from the complete deal. If his vision of the club stops at winning trophies but winning ugly, then my support for him, not the club, will be lukewarm.

But if his vision starts at winning trophies and playing a beautiful game, then i'm all in. Counter attacking football can be beautiful and free flowing with the right players, right strategy and a common understanding between them. Is there anything more beautiful when players are on the same page playing counter intuitively but knowing instinctively what the other is going to do leaving the defenders flummoxed? (That is one reason the lack of movement from our forwards is so disturbing.) As long as there is a positive trend in one of these (short term) and both of these long term, he's got my solid support.