Jose Mourinho

[Ledley's Right Foot]

Mourinho is just like Tony Pulis he does not understand Creative Attacking football. I read an interview with Sneijder recently saying how great Mourinho was because he sent him back to Holland a week of a game and did not expect him back until the day before and Pulis used to do similar things with Matthew Etherington where he did not have to train before games. Mourinho has always relied on individual talent to create his attacking play, Robben, Lampard, Deco, Hazard and Sneijder. He has no attacking system he just relies on individual creativity and then the team behind them being organised. TAA and Robertson would fail in Mourinho side, just like Luke Shaw did.

I get you don't like his style of play, no problem with that. But saying he doesn't understand creative attacking football? Who knows how he trains a team but I'd be very surprised if he doesn't know a thing or two about how to set up creative attacking play. I think that comment is a tad harsh. 23(?) Trophies don't get won without training teams how to score goals - creatively.

Schneijder was injury prone, if I recall, struggled in the later part of his career. I think that was more about ensuring he was rested. Also, Pulis and mourinho are not in the same category of manager by any criteria. Style of play, or otherwise.

But I get that they both might make you feel the same way when you watch. Not liking a manager is fine by me, and not liking his style of play - no problem. but those other comments on attacking play. Nah mate.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I agree. It's why Sheffield utd do so well, they understand each other and are an incredible team. Under poch, we had it to an extent, especially in the seasons when we pressed and counter pressed, creating chaos and opportunities from that. Then teams worked that out and we changed the way we play. Built a squad that worked around Eriksens creativity in the final third and Demebles ability to switch defence into attack quickly. Son, Dele and Kane could run off those players and know if they gambled enough in a game, we would get goals. It was effective but could also lead to ffs moments. Now, we are effectively that same team without those players.

Defensively I am encouraged by what mourinho is doing right now. It takes time to bed in team shape and it's the right thing to do now - focus on defensive shape. Son used to be able to get away with not tracking runners because Demeble and Wanyama could cover easily. Not anymore. We had to change the way we play.

To become a better attacking unit, we do need more creativity in the team as wl as an outstanding DM. We need a couple or three players to give us that otherwise the skills of Dele, son, Kane et Al become less potent. .

Mourinho will develop our play but it takes time (Klopp a good example). He has identified a lack of defensive shape and mentality as key attributes to focus on right now. I don't see anything wrong with that.

For next season, I think the focus will shift and a part of that will be the players we have developing and recruitment. I'm enjoying seeing it develop.

great post agree! Great points re. Sheff.Utd and lack of Eriksen/Dembele's creativity and also need to improve our front 3 especially Lucas who I love defensively and as a squad player but not as a regular starter.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I've also said many many times that the football shouldn't always be horrific under Jose but I don't think it will be once he sorts out the defensive organisation and hopefully gets some better attacking players (BIG IF).

His most recently successful and half decent to watch team was Chelsea and his line-up was something like:

Courtious

Ivanovic
Terry
Cahill
Azpi

Matric
Fabreagas

Willian
Oscar
Hazard

Costa

They were solid but also scored a lot of good goals but the differences between that team and the one we have are:
-Much better defenders as individuals (we'd need to upgrade the full-backs for sure)
-They had a proper DM in Matic, neither Winks or Sissoko fit that profile hence Hoyjberg interest
-Fabregas (Winks could do a similar role or GLC but i'd rather see GLC play as n.o 10 like yesterday in which case we need Ndombele to step up and play this role or sell him and buy a true creative deep lying CM)
-Upgrade our attacking midfielders or at least get more depth, Willian is/was more effective than Lucas going forwards although Lucas does do well defensively, Bergweign is a good talent but not quite there yet. GLC can be our Oscar for sure and Son can come close to Hazard and Kane can do what Costa does.

So to me we are not a million miles away from this and this team was reasonably ok to watch whilst also successful in winning the league.

I don't want us to play such dire football that I'd rather watch the missus paint her nails but it would also be nice to see us win a half decent trophy and so this is where results are key, if Jose wants to play this pragmatic way especially until the team are more solid and confident defensively before working more on attacking phases of play then no problem but we will need to see positive results which we have done since the re-start. If results are poor then I'm with you I will not be supporting us playing awful boring football and getting mediocre results but the way I see it is that there has to be a little bit of give and take.

Lets give Jose a bit more time to sort the balance of the side out and hopefully get some new players in and I think the results and enjoyment of the performances will pick up but unfortunately he's a defensive pragmatic coach so he needs top class consistent attacking creative players the likes of Willian and Hazard and Son and Kane to consistently perform each game because his attacking tactics will not be at the level of Pep or Klopp as his philosophy is completely opposite.

I think things can pick up performance wise to a level we as fans will be ok with and if that means we then lift the FA Cup next year surely when/if that day comes we'd all have a different perspective

But longer term I don't want Jose and this style of football either so I hope the next man is either Poch's return or Nagglesman or a younger more positive coach more in the style of play we want to see (once Jose has got us a tin pot or two hopefully)

This is the kind of football that when Jose has the right balance of players his teams can play: 6 past the gooners

Chelsea 6-0 Arsenal


The differences are as I said above in terms of the quality of players we have, mainly if you see these highlights most goals are scored in transition with Matic and D.Luiz winning the ball driving forwards and the front 3 causing havoc. Now I'm sorry but firsty our defence has not been solid enough as a platform to enable this and I see why Jose has tried to sort that out first and secondly our attacking players currently also aren't good enough, moving GLC to n.o10 is a positive sign and as he grows in confidence he'll become a consistent goalscoring and creative threat but when have you ever seen Lucas get the ball where Schurlle did and drive at the defence and hit it bottom corner? He just runs into players and is fouled or falls over, Bergweign did exactly what Schurlle did vs Man.U but hit the shot at De gea but still he was direct and scored and he has real potential but these are the nuances of difference that given time and some better players we COULD slowly see us becoming very effective at this mid-block and fast transition style, sure its not tiki taka and lots of posession but if we played like Chelsea did in this game beating arsenal 6-0 (could've been 10-0) then I don't think our fans will be bored or wanting to watch the missus do the washing up instead.

So for me its not blind optimism with Jose its just that lets see what happens if we can give him some more time and some players to fit more the style he wants to play and we could then all be a lot happier with what we are being served up.

But part of this is down to Levy and can he get Jose some half decent suitable players in the door.
If we could line-up next season or eventually something like the below then we could be a hell of a team:

Lloris

Aarons
Toby/new top CB
Dier
Chilwell (Obviously we won't sign him but someone similar)

Hojberg
Winks/Ndombele or new CM

Coutiniho/Willian or someone of similar quality (an upgrade on Lucas)
GLC
Son

Kane (Back-up to Kane so he's more fresh during games)

COYS

 

[teok]

I get you don't like his style of play, no problem with that. But saying he doesn't understand creative attacking football? Who knows how he trains a team but I'd be very surprised if he doesn't know a thing or two about how to set up creative attacking play. I think that comment is a tad harsh. 23(?) Trophies don't get won without training teams how to score goals - creatively.

Schneijder was injury prone, if I recall, struggled in the later part of his career. I think that was more about ensuring he was rested. Also, Pulis and mourinho are not in the same category of manager by any criteria. Style of play, or otherwise.

But I get that they both might make you feel the same way when you watch. Not liking a manager is fine by me, and not liking his style of play - no problem. but those other comments on attacking play. Nah mate.

I have actually heard that from a number of different journos.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I have actually heard that from a number of different journos.

@Ledley's Right Foot is spot on here.

 

[thekneaf]

I have actually heard that from a number of different journos.

Journos are basically people like us, they're not necessarily people with any notion of tactics or coaching beyond the enlightened fan. Many actually know far less.

 

[1882andallthat]

So your suggestion is we continue to go out all attack and hope for another goal? Our forwards have hardly been setting the world alight since the return and that would have left us even more under pressure.

I get your point, but it's a game by game decision and against whom and yesterday it made sense to shut up shop. We need to learn to do that at some point, so i don't see the problem of installing that mentality now when our season is pretty much over.

Our best form of defence is attack, in nearly all of the 45 years plus that I've been watching us we have hardly ever looked capable of completely shutting out teams and comfortably sitting on leads.

I always get nervous when we drop back and most of the play then takes place in the last third of our goal because I just don't trust us, you can always guarantee that at least one of our defenders will switch off, lose concentration, or gift at least one or maybe multiple chances to the opposition or there will be some knock down from a corner or cross or free kick into the box that will fall straight into the path of an opposing player.

 

[Japhet]

I think that it’s in no small measure down to the fact that many didn’t want Mourinho and are determined to be proven right so every situation, every game, every word said by Mourinho will be contrived in such a way to paint him in as negative light as possible and where possible to ‘prove’ that he’s the wrong choice and that he will be on his way very soon.

That cuts both ways.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Our best form of defence is attack, in nearly all of the 45 years plus that I've been watching us we have hardly ever looked capable of completely shutting out teams and comfortably sitting on leads.

I always get nervous when we drop back and most of the play then takes place in the last third of our goal because I just don't trust us, you can always guarantee that at least one of our defenders will switch off, lose concentration, or gift at least one or maybe multiple chances to the opposition or there will be some knock down from a corner or cross or free kick into the box that will fall straight into the path of an opposing player.

Well it worked vs Everton and West Ham and Man.City and Liverpool and to an extent recently against Man.U so perhaps we've in the past not had the right mentality, or quality of players, or team organisation or more pragmatic balanced style all of which we're slowly starting to see now.

Sorry but i disagree our best form of defence is attack, that might have been the case when we had prime Walker and Rose bombing on down the flanks with Wanyama mopping up, Dembele bossing CM, Erisken creating shit tons of chances and Son,Kane,Dele causing trouble but we don't have the squad or players to go gung-ho at teams now. We saw what a slightly more positive approach and line-up against Sheff.Utd led to... a resounding 3-1 loss.

 

[Metalhead]

That cuts both ways.

But surely the other way is more positive because it means success for the club?

 

[teok]

Journos are basically people like us, they're not necessarily people with any notion of tactics or coaching beyond the enlightened fan. Many actually know far less.

They interview players which is where this story comes from.

 

[Japhet]

But surely the other way is more positive because it means success for the club?

I guess it depends whether you want success at the expense of any entertainment. At the moment a lot of our success seems like having a painful tooth removed successfully. It's really not what watching football is about for me. Don't get me wrong, I want the club to be successful and prosper but it will be a shame for me if I can't bear to watch any of it.

 

[Ledley's Right Foot]

I have actually heard that from a number of different journos.

The not coaching attacking play thing? I don't get how any manager could survive in the job without doing it.

 

[Metalhead]

I guess it depends whether you want success at the expense of any entertainment. At the moment a lot of our success seems like having a painful tooth removed successfully. It's really not what watching football is about for me. Don't get me wrong, I want the club to be successful and prosper but it will be a shame for me if I can't bear to watch any of it.

I know what you mean but this is really the absolute beginning stage of things. If this was a vision of the culmination of Jose’s ambition then yes, awful but it’s such early days - it’s the beginning of a project.

 

[Ionman34]

That cuts both ways.

It really doesn't.

 

[rossdapep]

Mourinho is just like Tony Pulis he does not understand Creative Attacking football. I read an interview with Sneijder recently saying how great Mourinho was because he sent him back to Holland a week of a game and did not expect him back until the day before and Pulis used to do similar things with Matthew Etherington where he did not have to train before games. Mourinho has always relied on individual talent to create his attacking play, Robben, Lampard, Deco, Hazard and Sneijder. He has no attacking system he just relies on individual creativity and then the team behind them being organised. TAA and Robertson would fail in Mourinho side, just like Luke Shaw did.

Do you think coaches try to coach Messi and Ronaldo? Or do you think they are trusted to rely on their talent to create.

And I know for certain that Jose does loads of attacking exercises on the training ground.

Sometimes it's good to trust talented players with their instinct

 

[Japhet]

I know what you mean but this is really the absolute beginning stage of things. If this was a vision of the culmination of Jose’s ambition then yes, awful but it’s such early days - it’s the beginning of a project.

My concern is that in the past Mourinho has relied on some incredibly talented individuals to give the crowd their entertainment. Drogba and Ibrahimovic were prime examples. He tried to do the same bringing in Alexis Sanchez on eyewatering money and failed miserably. In our situation though I can see the reverse happening. Our exciting players will be looking for a way out and Levy won't be spending the cash to bring any 'bums off seats' players in. Our forward play already seems to have withered and died and the results we have got have come from as many own goals and flukes as anything else. I wouldn't blame Kane or Son for thinking 'fuck this, I'm off'.

 

[Bobby TwoShots]

It really doesn't.

Why not?

 

[thekneaf]

They interview players which is where this story comes from.

I've never seen quotes

 

[thekneaf]

They interview players which is where this story comes from.

What I've read is that he uses drills to encourage trusting your instincts in attack, over choreographed plays that Klopp and Pep favour. It's not that he doesn't know how to, its just not his philosophy. It's actually a philosophy he shares with Poch. Only Poch, at our peak favored pressing a team into mistakes and then using instinct to capitalise on the lack of defensive structure.

Jose rather uses a medium block, yes a bit dull, to encourage a team out of their block and then to hit with fast transitions.

You don't need to enjoy it, but it is a plan.

Disingenuous journalists say its that he doesn't know how, Jose would argue that he gets results.

I also believe that Sacramento was brought in to add more to the offensive tactics specifically.