Jose Mourinho

[dontcallme]

You say that and it’s a very valid point however you can still score a lot of goals but play in a more negative manner. The main reason being his teams have little of the ball so whilst they might score a lot on the counter attack which for a few seconds is very exciting for most the games you’re watching the opposition pass the ball around and make mistakes which for me isn’t that entertaining.

do you think the way we’ve played under him so far has been exciting ? Yes we scored some goals early on but we also had a good number of games where in my opinion we set up far far too negatively against weaker inferior opposition.

All fair points.

I would say that when we had Kane and Son fit we were playing good football. Even got Alli scoring again.

But once Kane and Son got injured we were on a hiding to nothing. Not good enough defensively to shut up shop and little attacking prowess to play a normal game.

He took over a disjointed side. Lloris has been injured. Our experienced defenders looked to be on a downward spiral and the inexperienced ones are getting thrown in quickly.

We have no defensive midfielder and our best two mids are in their first season in the Prem, one is showing horrendous fitness levels which can't be rectified in a short period.

Then with our 2 best goalscorers getting injured it was a horrible situation.

The fact he got Kane, Son and Alli together and we had a 2ppg with them in the team is a reason for optimism.

Jose's challenge will be one he has a summer transfer window and a preseason. Can we sell the players that need to be sold? Has he identified obtainable targets?

 

[Japhet]

I think we just write this season off and see what happens when he's had a pre season and a transfer window. If we're still getting served up the same type of football we've seen so far, people are entitled to throw a strop and say 'told you so', but hopefully there'll be some evidence that his claim to have re-invented himself wasn't bullshit.

 

[Gbspurs]

I'm not sure what to think about Mourinho at the moment but I'm convinced that no manager in the world could have coped with our injury problems up front last season. It wasn't just the fact we were missing big players but then the fatigue that other players had to cope with due to playing non stop, Moura and Dele in particular. Add to that the fact they Eriksen had checked out and new players like Tanganga/Sessegnon/Gelson were being bedding in during this time.

It was just non-stop compounding issues. We still have a good team so I'm sure the remaining fixtures will see a pick up in performance, just on Mourinho will stay out until next season, he gets a free pass for me for what has happened so far.

 

[dontcallme]

In his first games we beat West Ham and Bournemouth 3-2, lost to Utd, beat Burnley 5-0 then beat Wolves 2-1 away. I think there is sign that when we have attacking players fit he can get us playing good football.

 

[buckley]

I must say I feel like a hypocrite by saying I am really warming to Jose and my belief is he will bring us a trophy or two in the next three years As for negative play I have seen with his teams in the past they can play attacking football with the best of teams but when he is playing a team who he views as a threat he then becomes pragmatic . For me this is a trait I wish some of our previous managers had and to some extent is the reason we have not won a trophy over the the last seasons as sometimes you must make allowances for the opposition.
I see that as a strength rather than a failure and as Jose has said after reading Darwins theory of evolution .
The best and strongest sometimes go to the wall but the ones who adapt endure .
And one thing Jose can do is adapt to what is needed to win .
.

 

[Timberwolf]

If the players, fans and board trust him enough to follow his leadership, he will lead us to trophies. He is a ridiculously talented manager. There's a lot of rubbish written about him, he has made some pretty ugly gaffs through his career and we all enjoy a bit of a schadenfreude but his trophies outweigh the gaffs tenfold.

I've never seen him as a negative manager per se. The Chelsea team he built first time round I remember too well as a spurs fan :-(
The only boring thing about them was they just kept winning. (Duff and Robben, with Drogba were a front three that played some awesome stuff.

Inter was a weird one, an ageing team who he turned into title winners, played some good stuff (How many of us wanted schnejder?) But he was defined as negative because of the champions League final against some of the greatest Barcelona players in history. How he managed to win that game is a question of some beauty.

Then Real. Against that Barca team again. The players of that team you mention above are good but no where near the peak Barca of the time. They won the league (record points if I recall) but again they played defensive against Barca - I can't think of a team that could of beaten them going open.

He is pragmatic. He does have a win at all costs approach, which is galling for the opposition, and your own fans if you don't win but he is not lacking in talent nor is he a negative coach.

His time at utd was weird. It seemed to be the job he had waited for and wanted but he wasn't loved or trusted there and the rot had set into that club way before he joined. It seemed to affect him more than it should have done. He was grizly, knarly and acted as if the criticism of him was disrespectful of his achievements. How he got that team to trophies is another mystery to me, especially over the team we had. And here he is. Leading us.

Poch was a genius for us but by the time he left our winning spirit seemed broken. The players seemed to play this season as if the past 4 years were luck. That they didn't deserve to win. The fight had gone, the teamwork, the giving everything, the belief was gone. For me that's what made it so difficult to watch. How could, for example, Dele and Toby and Dier and Eriksen play so ordinarily when we had seen how extraordinary they could be?

Mourinho knows all this. He also knows the game has changed. He will get us competing again. The style of play will also improve as his coaching begins to kick in. I'm hopeful. I don't think CL qualification is feasible this year, think we've given ourselves too much to do but we will win most of our games and next year, you're right. We don't need much but we do need to add to the squad.

I sincerely hope you're right and completely agree that Mourinho deserves time and support.

That said, I don't subscribe to this blind belief that he will win us trophies. Every great manager (barring perhaps Ferguson) eventually meets their decline, and past success is no guarantee of future success. I haven't seen anything from Mourinho in the past 3-4 years to suggest that he's going to be able to win a trophy with this group of players, on a limited budget, when we're up against the likes of Liverpool and Man City.

I hope he proves me wrong.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Exciting isn't a definable emotion though. For instance, if he grinds out a series of wins and draws that have us challenging for the league again next season, that'll be exciting. Moments in a game can be exciting, like Ginola in the 90s, but getting rinsed isn't exciting.

Objectively, Liverpool were less attaching this season and less fluent, but more consistent. And they've only lost once in the league.

Let's face it, winning or losing when you're in mid table it's all grim, and you're there because you're losing too much.

Yea can’t argue with that mate I’ve basically said that whereby if the results go very well and we are in a title race etc then I’m sure fans would put up with less desirable football style but the issue is when the results go badly the fans turn a lot faster if the style is grim and negative that’s my main point.

I want him to do well with us and think he could I’m just concerned by the style as sitting through some of those games pre covid was akin to watching spurs under santini almost it was the hardest to watch style in about the past 30 years.

hopedully with all the players back and possible some new ones in summer he might have more opportunity to play more positively more often but for me unless we are really getting exceptional results I’ll find it very hard sitting through a whole season of very negative anti posssison football.

Also yes Liverpool have been less attacking and more pragmatic this season but that’s comparing apples with oranges as they’re an incredible team a well oiled machine who absolutely dominate most teams they face in the prem.

It’s just such a polar oppositie to Poch’s early days high pressing high internisty brave positive philosophy, just don’t think it’s a great fit for our club but of course I want us to win something so absolutely willing to give Jose time to have a fair crack at it but if we park the bus at home to norwich and Southampton when all players are fit then I can’t see that strategy getting us in any title races any time soon.

 

[Ledley's Right Foot]

I sincerely hope you're right and completely agree that Mourinho deserves time and support.

That said, I don't subscribe to this blind belief that he will win us trophies. Every great manager (barring perhaps Ferguson) eventually meets their decline, and past success is no guarantee of future success. I haven't seen anything from Mourinho in the past 3-4 years to suggest that he's going to be able to win a trophy with this group of players, on a limited budget, when we're up against the likes of Liverpool and Man City.

I hope he proves me wrong.

Love this post. It's football in a nutshell. We look at the same data and see different things. I agree a lot needs to go right and there was a lot going wrong this season. I believe in him but it's not blind faith (aside from supporting spurs, in my lifetime, is the very definition of blind faith). It's why supporting spurs, for me, is pure entertainment and why I keep coming back to this forum for more. So many viewpoints all caring about the same thing: spurs winning. On that last point you make. I hope he proves you wrong too ?

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

All fair points.

I would say that when we had Kane and Son fit we were playing good football. Even got Alli scoring again.

But once Kane and Son got injured we were on a hiding to nothing. Not good enough defensively to shut up shop and little attacking prowess to play a normal game.

He took over a disjointed side. Lloris has been injured. Our experienced defenders looked to be on a downward spiral and the inexperienced ones are getting thrown in quickly.

We have no defensive midfielder and our best to mids are in their first season in the Prem, one is showing horrendous fitness levels which can't be rectified in a short period.

Then with our 2 best goalscorers getting injured it was a horrible situation.

The fact he got Kane, Son and Alli together and we had a 2ppg with them in the team is a reason for optimism.

Jose's challenge will be one he has a summer transfer window and a preseason. Can we sell the players that need to be sold? Has he identified obtainable targets?

All really great Points mate, I do think Kane and son’s injuries were huge although I still think with the players he still had available that we were stronger man for man than norwich Southampton etc and yet he decided on a very negative anti possession approach which I don’t think suited the players we had available.

but do agree when all were fit we were playing some half decent stuff, the main worry was the Chelsea home game where we had a fully fit team yet got dominated and outthought tacitcally even before son got sent off.

Do agree some real reasons for optimism and if he can get w back up striker 2 full backs and a DM or AM then he will have an very very strong squad to play with, all clubs are in the same boat we just might need to be clever with swaps and loans and free’s etc.

excited for footy to be back anyways and see what he can do with the team just hope he doesn’t set-up too negativity too often that’s all.

 

[dontcallme]

All really great Points mate, I do think Kane and son’s injuries were huge although I still think with the players he still had available that we were stronger man for man than norwich Southampton etc and yet he decided on a very negative anti possession approach which I don’t think suited the players we had available.

but do agree when all were fit we were playing some half decent stuff, the main worry was the Chelsea home game where we had a fully fit team yet got dominated and outthought tacitcally even before son got sent off.

Do agree some real reasons for optimism and if he can get w back up striker 2 full backs and a DM or AM then he will have an very very strong squad to play with, all clubs are in the same boat we just might need to be clever with swaps and loans and free’s etc.

excited for footy to be back anyways and see what he can do with the team just hope he doesn’t set-up too negativity too often that’s all.

I think the player for player views rarely take into account the team.

Southampton are not a bad side. Fully fit they have a well balanced side that lacks that bit of quality to push them into the top half. Norwich when fully fit completely outplayed Everton at Goodison.

IMO, that will often compete well with an unbalanced side with good players but their stars missing.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I think the player for player views rarely take into account the team.

Southampton are not a bad side. Fully fit they have a well balanced side that lacks that bit of quality to push them into the top half. Norwich when fully fit completely outplayed Everton at Goodison.

IMO, that will often compete well with an unbalanced side with good players but their stars missing.

Yea again some great points mate, suppose I didn’t think about it that way but regardless of that it just seems that Jose’s philosophy and go to style is to let the opponent have more of the ball and then pounce on their mistakes and I think it used to be quite effective but the game has changed now and it just doesn’t work as consistently against the more progressive current en vouge styles and I also don’t think we really have the players to play that way, we don’t have a destroyer type DM, when Kane isn’t fit we don’t have a target man, most of our midfielders are ball players like lo celso winks etc but if Jose can get us playing more of the style he played in his 2nd spell at Chelsea that was to be fair fairly decent to watch and also very effective obviously as it won them the title again.

The Issue is we don’t have enough depth in attack and we don’t have a Matci type destroyer or a creative CM anywhere near as good as Fabregas was, also our fullbacks are too weak imo.

so like we’ve both said if he can improve the squad a bit then it will be very interesting to see how we play and how well we do.

COYS

 

[Ledley's Right Foot]

Yea can’t argue with that mate I’ve basically said that whereby if the results go very well and we are in a title race etc then I’m sure fans would put up with less desirable football style but the issue is when the results go badly the fans turn a lot faster if the style is grim and negative that’s my main point.

I want him to do well with us and think he could I’m just concerned by the style as sitting through some of those games pre covid was akin to watching spurs under santini almost it was the hardest to watch style in about the past 30 years.

hopedully with all the players back and possible some new ones in summer he might have more opportunity to play more positively more often but for me unless we are really getting exceptional results I’ll find it very hard sitting through a whole season of very negative anti posssison football.

Also yes Liverpool have been less attacking and more pragmatic this season but that’s comparing apples with oranges as they’re an incredible team a well oiled machine who absolutely dominate most teams they face in the prem.

It’s just such a polar oppositie to Poch’s early days high pressing high internisty brave positive philosophy, just don’t think it’s a great fit for our club but of course I want us to win something so absolutely willing to give Jose time to have a fair crack at it but if we park the bus at home to norwich and Southampton when all players are fit then I can’t see that strategy getting us in any title races any time soon.

Yeah, this season was painful to watch. I think it was more the players suffering the hangover of title challenges and losing the final, mixed in with the injuries and new manager. If it continues like that, it won't last long. I don't think it will mind. The rest of this season will give us a much better indication of which way this will all go. He's had time to reflect now. The players have also had a chance to look forward, rather than back at that heartache. I feel optimistic about it all. It took Poch about 12 months to hit that form you speak of, with only glimpses of what was to come. I feel like Mourinho will get there sooner. Why?

Kane, Dele, Lo Celso, Son, Moura, bergwijn, Lloris, Toby, winks, Sanchez, Lamella, Ndombele, sessegon, sissoko, Davies, a fit Dier...that's some serious talent that any half decent manager should get a tune out of. Sort out the full backs, a good DM, maybe another striker and we will be rolling next year.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Yeah, this season was painful to watch. I think it was more the players suffering the hangover of title challenges and losing the final, mixed in with the injuries and new manager. If it continues like that, it won't last long. I don't think it will mind. The rest of this season will give us a much better indication of which way this will all go. He's had time to reflect now. The players have also had a chance to look forward, rather than back at that heartache. I feel optimistic about it all. It took Poch about 12 months to hit that form you speak of, with only glimpses of what was to come. I feel like Mourinho will get there sooner. Why?

Kane, Dele, Lo Celso, Son, Moura, bergwijn, Lloris, Toby, winks, Sanchez, Lamella, Ndombele, sessegon, sissoko, Davies, a fit Dier...that's some serious talent that any half decent manager should get a tune out of. Sort out the full backs, a good DM, maybe another striker and we will be rolling next year.

Great points mate and do fully agree that it’s been a funny old season and like you say the CL hangover and title challenges etc got to all the players and poch and think the squad is / was just burntout and so Jose had a real job on his hands especially coming in mid season and getting so many injuries.
But also like you say if the style of football now continues and results aren’t great I also agree I can’t see him lasting very long, obviously hope that won’t be the case and optimistic that he’s still a good manager and with a few tweaks to the squad could do very very well with us but a few of the games pre covid had a few worrying signs for me.

Also spot on about the squad now I’ve had time to slow down and reflect on it I do think it’s an extremely talented squad still it’s just a little unbalanced and like you say get a back up striker 2 FB’s and a DM and we should be rocking.

COYS

 

[Dirtysanchez6]

At then end of the day Mourinho had more success with that united team than our peak poch team had and that says a lot!! Give him time let him get his own squad together and methods into the team and then judge

 

[dudu]

I think we all needed this break, it came sooner than was expected but the club as a whole needed to be reset, and the ghost of Poch needed to be exorcised.

We were in a very negative space, nothing would go right for us and I get the feeling like the whole squad was incapable of picking up their heads.

I think we will see a different Spurs next time we play.

 

[Timberwolf]

I think we all needed this break, it came sooner than was expected but the club as a whole needed to be reset, and the ghost of Poch needed to be exorcised.

We were in a very negative space, nothing would go right for us and I get the feeling like the whole squad was incapable of picking up their heads.

I think we will see a different Spurs next time we play.

Fingers crossed.

I think I'm a bit cynical because I was the one making excuses at the end of last season.

"We're just tired from the World Cup"
"We had terrible injuries"
"We desperately need signings"
"We just need a proper pre-season"
"The stadium issues have held us back"

Lo and behold, even with new signings, a full pre-season, a new shiny stadium and no summer tournament, we were still dogshit.

Overall I'd say I'm very cautiously optimistic. I'm hoping for the best but certainly not expecting a huge turnaround.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I think we all needed this break, it came sooner than was expected but the club as a whole needed to be reset, and the ghost of Poch needed to be exorcised.

We were in a very negative space, nothing would go right for us and I get the feeling like the whole squad was incapable of picking up their heads.

I think we will see a different Spurs next time we play.

Hopefully mate, like the optimism.

 

[dudu]

Fingers crossed.

I think I'm a bit cynical because I was the one making excuses at the end of last season.

"We're just tired from the World Cup"
"We had terrible injuries"
"We desperately need signings"
"We just need a proper pre-season"
"The stadium issues have held us back"

Lo and behold, even with new signings, a full pre-season, a new shiny stadium and no summer tournament, we were still dogshit.

Overall I'd say I'm very cautiously optimistic. I'm hoping for the best but certainly not expecting a huge turnaround.

Yeah i hear you.

My optimism is usually my downfall and its weird because I'm not that optimistic about most things in life, but with Spurs its always there.

I think at the beginning of last season we still had the ghost of the CL lost hanging around our necks. We had come to the end of an era with Poch and we were trying to start a new one but we just could not move past the mounting issues that we had within the squad.

Even after he left there was still a heavy weight hanging over the club. Negativity reigned supreme.

My hope is that the last few months have put that behind us and we can come back to football with a new perspective. Some of these players will be desperate to get back to playing and maybe even realise that it could all just go away in an instant so it's better to make the most of it while you have it.

 

[Timberwolf]

Yeah i hear you.

My optimism is usually my downfall and its weird because I'm not that optimistic about most things in life, but with Spurs its always there.

I think at the beginning of last season we still had the ghost of the CL lost hanging around our necks. We had come to the end of an era with Poch and we were trying to start a new one but we just could not move past the mounting issues that we had within the squad.

Even after he left there was still a heavy weight hanging over the club. Negativity reigned supreme.

My hope is that the last few months have put that behind us and we can come back to football with a new perspective. Some of these players will be desperate to get back to playing and maybe even realise that it could all just go away in an instant so it's better to make the most of it while you have it.

Yeah there's definitely hope. Kane has barely played with Lo Celso, and never with Bergwijn. Ndombele's ceiling is huge. With a fully fit squad and a mini-preseason, there's reason to be (cautiously) optimistic.

 

[Metalhead]

I sincerely hope you're right and completely agree that Mourinho deserves time and support.

That said, I don't subscribe to this blind belief that he will win us trophies. Every great manager (barring perhaps Ferguson) eventually meets their decline, and past success is no guarantee of future success. I haven't seen anything from Mourinho in the past 3-4 years to suggest that he's going to be able to win a trophy with this group of players, on a limited budget, when we're up against the likes of Liverpool and Man City.

I hope he proves me wrong.

I think that all it's reasonable for people to do is keep an open mind. It's disheartening for every defeat to be greeted by "told you so - he needs to go " or "can't wait until Levy sees the light and brings in a young, ambitious manager" .