Jose Mourinho

[Lennon1981]

Essentially what you're saying is you'd rather beat the best in the world than be the best in the world.

Understood.

Fucking hell what the blazing squad are you on about. So Ramos and Graham’s spurs weee the best in the world?

Ok great thanks for taking part in the debate.

Bloody hell

 

[Kiedis]

It's absolutely fine to point at Mourinho winning the league cup (after beating Northampton, Man City B, West Ham, Hull and Southampton) or the EL (after knock out ties against Rostov, Anderlecht, Celta and Ajax) as proof that Mourinho is a "winner". Absolutely, he's shown that even in later years, he's capable of getting results in knock out/crunch matches by grabbing the odd goal.

What he's not shown, is an ability to move with the times and shown that he can coach a modern proactive style that's a necessity in this day and age to pick the necassary points in a league format. I think he may have the best intentions when he say that he wants to do it with us, but the proof will be in the pudding as to whether or not he can do it.

 

[rez9000]

You seem to want to make out everyone who responds to you with a rebuttal is upset. Classic projectionism.

The simple fact is that you have claimed that certain "moments" in games are more memorable than Cup wins. It's absolute tosh as the vast majority on here would agree with. I wonder how many would come out with "I was there when Hoddle chipped the Watford keeper," rather than " I was there when Neilsen won us the Cup."
I was there for both, I know which memory gave me the most pleasure.

Nor do I brag about our trophies, I take pleasure in them and the memories they evoke. They are historic and glorious for our club and, as a supporter, I get to bask in that. That's part of the joy of being affiliated with a successful team, it lifts your spirits, it brings you joy well beyond the moment because you actually achieved something beyond a mercurial moment. It's not fleeting as it remains forever in the history books and provides a sense of pride. We have fans who are proud of our achievements in '61 and they weren't even born then. They didn't see the Football, they don't know what the moments were, they weren't entertained by it, but they feel the sense of pride. That is the legacy of a winning side.

You'd like us to be remembered like the Dutch side of the 70's, the greatest Football team to win nothing. The thing is, they are remembered as an aside, the narrative being what they should have won, not what they did. The memories are all tinged with bitterness because they won nothing.

I wonder if you're in the majority or the minority here. Actually I don't, I know exactly where you stand.

Someone needs to go get the ball, cause you just knocked it out the park.

 

[rez9000]

Fucking hell what the blazing squad are you on about. So Ramos and Graham’s spurs weee the best in the world?

The point is over there, chap - you missed it.

Ok great thanks for taking part in the debate.

I was just trying to not use long words, because allegedly you don't like them....

Bloody hell

Sorry. Didn't mean to get your blood pressure up. Just to check, does this make me a 'girl' or a 'little bitch Jose fan boy?' Just asking for clarity's sake.

 

[dudu]

Speaking of his time at Inter, I just read the below interview from Jose back then. Think you may find interesting. Sorry if already posted.

"At Inter Milan, my agreement with them was that the first season was to keep that dominance in Italian football – to win the title for the third consecutive time. But, at the same time, to fill the need for the Champions League.

"To do the second part, we needed to bring the team to the next level.

"That first season, I waited and waited until the moment we were knocked out of the Champions League by Manchester United. That was the moment when I told the owner and the sports director: 'For me, this is what we need.'

"We were a team that, defensively, was phenomenal in a low block. But we needed to bring the line 20 metres higher, to make the team much more dominant, to press higher. To help with that, we needed a fast central defender – that was crucial for us.

"The work the club did that summer was phenomenal.

"Sometimes, simplicity is genius and complexity is to hide that you are not good enough. At Inter, we had a simple structure in the club and so, even when my immediate choice, Ricardo Carvalho, was not possible, they found the perfect solution: Lucio. He was fast. Really fast. He would give us exactly what we needed.

"After that, we had to improve our passing quality in midfield. We had fantastic players there: Javier Zanetti, Dejan Stankovic, Sulley Muntari. But we needed to be more dominant. To be more in control.

"For that, we needed something different. Wesley Sneijder was the key for us.

"Inter had not won the European Cup or Champions League for almost 50 years.

"I felt the key moment came against Chelsea in the last 16. To come to Stamford Bridge and win there was the moment people started to believe. Started to feel that we had a team capable of winning it. That moment was the click that the team needed.

"The moment when the psychological wall started to crumble.

"Winning that Champions League was a fantastic achievement. It was not an easy way to do it – we were not exactly lucky in the draws. But we went into that competition with ambition and an incredible team that allowed us to deliver what the club wanted."

- José Mourinho

You can imagine something similar may happen this coming summer, with another quick centre back brought in, along with all the other areas we need to bolster (FBs, DM, striker)

But, but, Jose only knows how to play defensive boring football.

Surely he isn't intimating here that he requires time and the right personnel to be trained in the right way to achieve the football he wants to play?

 

[dudu]

And you my friend are the epitome of an old timer, afraid to move with the times.

Football has changed like it or not. What you need to remember is while modern football fans might get on your tits. We live in a world of modern players too.

They no longer grow up dreaming of an fa cup final at Wembley.

An fa cup win won’t get you the best players.and it won’t keep you the best players. Harry Kane isn’t going to stay because we win a domestic cup. But if we look like we are challenging for the champions league and or league then he just might.

Exactly. Football has changed and so have Spurs. We aren't the plucky underdogs that big teams underestimate anymore.

We are playing with the big boys now.

Time to put on your big boy pants, stop throwing your toys out of the pram and show a little patience beyond 3 whole months.

 

[CowInAComa]

You seem to want to make out everyone who responds to you with a rebuttal is upset. Classic projectionism.

The simple fact is that you have claimed that certain "moments" in games are more memorable than Cup wins. It's absolute tosh as the vast majority on here would agree with. I wonder how many would come out with "I was there when Hoddle chipped the Watford keeper," rather than " I was there when Neilsen won us the Cup."
I was there for both, I know which memory gave me the most pleasure.

Nor do I brag about our trophies, I take pleasure in them and the memories they evoke. They are historic and glorious for our club and, as a supporter, I get to bask in that. That's part of the joy of being affiliated with a successful team, it lifts your spirits, it brings you joy well beyond the moment because you actually achieved something beyond a mercurial moment. It's not fleeting as it remains forever in the history books and provides a sense of pride. We have fans who are proud of our achievements in '61 and they weren't even born then. They didn't see the Football, they don't know what the moments were, they weren't entertained by it, but they feel the sense of pride. That is the legacy of a winning side.

You'd like us to be remembered like the Dutch side of the 70's, the greatest Football team to win nothing. The thing is, they are remembered as an aside, the narrative being what they should have won, not what they did. The memories are all tinged with bitterness because they won nothing.

I wonder if you're in the majority or the minority here. Actually I don't, I know exactly where you stand.

Again nope.

Never said I want us to be remembered as great losers. Never said I wouldn't love us to win a trophy. Made a very clear point that trophies are but one thing I get enjoy from from supporting a football team and I wouldn't personally swap a trophy if it sacrificed all the other perhaps less historic high points over the course of a season.

Bear in mind I'm not in the slightest bit nostalgic or sentimental. I dont share this same sense of pride or history you clearly do. I like the here and now and the rush and adrenaline that comes from great matches and wins, like the other guy also stated. I want to experience and be at great matches and the feeling during and few days after. I cherish those moments, like the Ajax goal yes, I will remember them more fondly than the 99 Worthington cup win.

A trophy even Carling cup or whatever, would be an amazing day for sure, but not something I would personally want to sacrifice everything else I also get enjoyment from for, in that hypothetical scenario/choice.

Is it that disagreeable to hold my view and opinion? Or that outrageous that it is perhaps not the 'majority' view, (and does that even matter)?

Again, I don't care about bragging rights, being 'remembered' or telling my grandkids. 61 was probably nice for guys who watched and went to those games, means dick to me, I wasn't around.

Truly sorry I may not be with the majority on this.
Forgive me?


Ps. Are we supposed to end every post with a weird little personal insult or term like 'space cadet'? Or is that optional.

 

[Kiedis]

But, but, Jose only knows how to play defensive boring football.

Surely he isn't intimating here that he requires time and the right personnel to be trained in the right way to achieve the football he wants to play?

I think it's important to take into consideration that this was ten years ago. The challenges teams face in terms of (as an example) organised pressing are different now and require different solutions. He seems to be aware of that himself.

 

[dudu]

I think it's important to take into consideration that this was ten years ago. The challenges teams face in terms of (as an example) organised pressing are different now and require different solutions. He seems to be aware of that himself.

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree.

I just think Jose has a lot more strings to his bow than some give him credit for.

 

[Shadydan]

To be fair I don’t know how it chit to this nor why everyone is getting their knickers in a twist.

My original point was that I preferred the twin title challenges, the football we played culminating in a losing champions league final than I did the shit that we had to watch under Ramos or graham even though both ended with a trophy.

People are willing to take a trophy along with dire football it seems because in my opinion that’s what you get with Jose. That would be acceptable I guess if it was the league or the champions league. But to put up with a season of shit football and parking the buss against Norwich and Southampton for a league cup... fuck that shit.

That was my point.

Okay

 

[shelfboy68]

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree.

I just think Jose has a lot more strings to his bow than some give him credit for.

Jose is a very clever man who knows what to say and when to say it most of the time it's considered but he is passionate and emotional, I think Danny boy has met his match with him because he is the most high profile manager we have had for as long as I can remember

 

[Metalhead]

It's absolutely fine to point at Mourinho winning the league cup (after beating Northampton, Man City B, West Ham, Hull and Southampton) or the EL (after knock out ties against Rostov, Anderlecht, Celta and Ajax) as proof that Mourinho is a "winner". Absolutely, he's shown that even in later years, he's capable of getting results in knock out/crunch matches by grabbing the odd goal.

What he's not shown, is an ability to move with the times and shown that he can coach a modern proactive style that's a necessity in this day and age to pick the necassary points in a league format. I think he may have the best intentions when he say that he wants to do it with us, but the proof will be in the pudding as to whether or not he can do it.

Absolutely and as far as I can see, all anyone wants at best is for him to be given a chance - to be open-minded and not use every defeat as a reason to post 'I told you so' or even start 'who should the next manager be' which is embarrassing after 3 months.

 

[allatsea]

Jose is a very clever man who knows what to say and when to say it most of the time it's considered but he is passionate and emotional, I think Danny boy has met his match with him because he is the most high profile manager we have had for as long as I can remember

Levy will be made to look an idiot and possibly a liar if he fails to deliver what he has promised Mourinho both ins and outs this summer. Mourinho will lose no time in telling the world what he was promised and it wasn't delivered if it isn't delivered. IMO we had a very good January Transfer Window so there is no reason to believe Mourinho will not be supported this summer. Two players brought in with lots of potential and two troublemakers moved on. That is good for a January Transfer Window.

 

[spursfan77]

Great find!! Just goes to show that Jose is very good at identifying the missing pieces. Think he's got much more work to do here mind.

Normally I'd be looking forward to seeing what Jose does with the team over the next couple of months but since injuries have robbed us of that, I have to say I'm looking forward to the summer. I imagine he's already got the players he wants in mind, whether or not Levy goes and gets them is another thing.

But I do think as we don't have the funds of United, Jose isn't going to be demanding 100m players, he's likely going to have to rely on his scouting network and agents - get more players like Bergwijn.

I'm really pining to see Kane and Bergwijn together. Think they could form a great understanding.

I agree but as always, the manager will find out from the chairman that he’s backed but not all the way. We’ve seen it too many times to mention.

Like you say, we need to box clever in the market. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a couple more of the loan with option to buy purchases coming in. Especially if we do have a relatively large turnover of player as we will need to balance the books because of FFP.

Lots of areas to improve though. It’s going to be difficult. We may have to go for more flexible players to compensate the amount we have to get.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

Levy will be made to look an idiot and possibly a liar if he fails to deliver what he has promised Mourinho both ins and outs this summer. Mourinho will lose no time in telling the world what he was promised and it wasn't delivered if it isn't delivered. IMO we had a very good January Transfer Window so there is no reason. to believe Mourinho will not be supported this summer. Two players brought in with lots of potential and two troublemakers moved on. That is good for a January Transfer Window.

Mourinho has to be careful what he says as how ever difficult it maybe working for Levy, there will be a queue as long as your arm of potential managers happy to replace him. No one is indispensable, particularly Mourinho.

 

[allatsea]

Mourinho has to be careful what he says as how ever difficult it maybe working for Levy, there will be a queue as long as your arm of potential managers happy to replace him. No one is indispensable, particularly Mourinho.

I'd put it the other way round. There will be no end of clubs willing to pay Mourinho millions to manage them so he won't be worried about upsetting Dear Leader.

 

[spursfan77]

Ultimately I want him to do well of course I do but his negativity is becoming slightly suffocating. Not the tactics but his general demeanour and language - not sure what the goal of his constantly running the players down is beyond self preservation. as I really don’t think the fans need their expectations managed.

I can’t think of another modern manager who takes such a dour approach and “I wish the season was over” standpoint when there’s still so much to play for. It really is the total opposite of Pochettino’s “you just have to believe” messaging.

The players must be pretty confused. Already seems a long time ago he was joking with ball boys and cracking smiles at press conferences. “Spurs without Kane and Son is like Liverpool without Salah and Mane”... erm they beat Barcelona 4-0 without them, what’s your point? Maybe it’s not just the personnel, it’s the managerial approach yeah?

Following Spurs isn’t remotely fun anymore, it’s a slog, and that’s predominantly down to our smacked-arse pied piper. Cheer up love, it might never happen.

Are you new!?!?

It’s been good for the last ten years or so but that’s about it. I wouldn’t say that hasn’t been a slog either! ???

Let’s hope it gets better though hey?

 

[JonnySpurs]

I'd be fine with the low block if we were able to muster effective counterattacks. It's pragmatic but it can also be entertaining when it's functioning well. In theory, we've got the makings of a squad that could perform in such a setup.

Lo Celso and Ndombele (if he ever gets himself to the requisite fitness levels) are press-resistant and can release the ball quickly, and we've got wide forwards like Son, Lucas and Bergwijn who can hit teams with blistering pace.

We saw last season in the Champions League how devastating we can be on the counter, and that was before the additions of Lo Celso, Bergwijn, and Ndombele. Problem is that without Kane and with no replacement for Llorente we don't have anyone who can hold the ball up and bring others into play.

This season is a write-off for me. Our recruitment setup simply allowed the squad to deteriorate to a state where we were one or two injuries away from a crisis, and sure enough we've been hit with injuries to those exact players. I'll judge Jose next season once he's got a complete squad. And if he hasn't got the tools he needs, the judgment should be on Levy IMO.

Nail on head right here. You've summed up exactly how I'm feeling about us at the moment.

Expectations needed to be low since Jose took over, not because he's not a great manager, that's not up for debate, but moreso because the squad was still unbalanced and had gaping holes when he took it on. We've had some luck but in truth he's done a good job so far with what he's got at his disposal.

Had we not suffered injuries to Kane, Son and Sissoko then I think we'd possibly be 4th by now and we'd certainly be playing better than we are. Unfortunately we can't change what's happened and I think we all need to come to terms that the rest of this season is going to be a real struggle.

The important thing is to accept the circumstances we find ourselves in and not overreact. Next season is where we'll get the true picture and you know what, it still might not be a pretty one. It may well not work with Mourinho but he deserves the summer, in respect of re-shaping this squad, a full pre-season (which will still be hampered by the Euros) and at least 3-6 months of next season before we can really judge him.

I wasn't a fan of the man before he took this job but I have to admit, he's won me over on a personal level, on a footballing level I'm still on the fence but I have no doubt that given the proper backing and the right tools he can lead us to success.

 

[scat1620]

What he's not shown, is an ability to move with the times and shown that he can coach a modern proactive style that's a necessity in this day and age to pick the necassary points in a league format.

Firstly, as a general, non-Mourinho-specific point, I don't think any particular style is necessary for getting league points on the board in modern day football - see Leicester 2015/16 for proof. Secondly, as a Mourinho-specific point, I think that Jose finishing second in the Premier League with Man Utd in 2017/18 with what was widely perceived to not be the second best squad in the league is proof that Mourinho knows how to pick up league points in modern football too. His track record speaks for itself and hasn't got anything to prove - whether Spurs as a club put him in a position to succeed is the big question for me.

 

[HildoSpur]

Firstly, as a general, non-Mourinho-specific point, I don't think any particular style is necessary for getting league points on the board in modern day football - see Leicester 2015/16 for proof. Secondly, as a Mourinho-specific point, I think that Jose finishing second in the Premier League with Man Utd in 2017/18 with what was widely perceived to not be the second best squad in the league is proof that Mourinho knows how to pick up league points in modern football too. His track record speaks for itself and hasn't got anything to prove - whether Spurs as a club put him in a position to succeed is the big question for me.

You have to laugh really - so many people in here putting Mourinho down and saying that he is finished or yesterday's man yet the fact is that only 2/3 years ago he brought more success to a club than any manager of Spurs has been able to achieve in decades. You have to wonder what planet these people are on.