Jose Mourinho

[felmani26]

Isn't the binary choice being made by those who suggest that Jose's tactics are the bestest tactics, and that we must relinquish any notion of positivity in our play to be winners.

Let's be honest, nobody has suggested that here or certainly not to my knowledge.

 

[Dr Benson]

I'm more than old enough to remember his first period in Chelsea. I was 24 when he arrived in 2004, and I remember that team as a brilliant and strong team, but.. I don't really remember if they were a high pressing attacking team, or if it was more based on defending and counter attacks or a lovely hybrid..? Can someone please help me with my memory?

 

[Gb160]

@Bobbins How dare you use a four syllable word, you monster.

 

[SpursSince1980]

I’ve got an idea I’ll write a really really long piece of bull shit, throw in some really long words to make it sound like I know about football to win this debate.

Congratulations you win at the internet

Firstly, what was it he said that was BS? To the best of my knowledge, his post was factual.
Secondly, what long words? No offense to the poster, but I'd hardly classify the writing as complex prose.
Thirdly, out of curiosity, when one wins the internet, what's the prize?

 

[yido_number1]

I'm more than old enough to remember his first period in Chelsea. I was 24 when he arrived in 2004, and I remember that team as a brilliant and strong team, but.. I don't really remember if they were a high pressing attacking team, or if it was more based on defending and counter attacks or a lovely hybrid..? Can someone please help me with my memory?

They had Duff and Robben on the wings with Drogba in the middle. I think they had Makalele holding and lampard attacking from midfield. Cole and Ferrera being quite expansive full backs. You also had Joe Cole interchanging. They were a really good team back then and definitely not a defensive bore.

 

[yido_number1]

They had Duff and Robben on the wings with Drogba in the middle. I think they had Makalele holding and lampard attacking from midfield. Cole and Ferrera being quite expansive full backs. You also had Joe Cole interchanging. They were a really good team back then and definitely not a defensive bore.

@Lennon1981 what exactly are you disagreeing with that was litterally their team?

 

[ToDarrenIsToDo]

"Please Grandad! Please tell us about the time Tottenham finished 2nd and how we almost won the Champions League?!"

Or you could word it "please grandad, tell us about the time we finished higher than we have finished in the league since 1961 and the furthest we have ever got in the biggest club competition in the world.

Not really sure why certain Spurs fans don't see the positives in it all and instead berate or mock the club. Clearly achieving those two things is incredibly hard, a quick look at our near on 140 year history demonstrates that.

 

[Metalhead]

As you very well know the game was changed fundamentally by the early penaltyl. It changed BOTH teams approach fundamentally.

If you don't understand this then you know very little about football and sport in general.

If you do understand this then you're lying and making a crack at Poch simply in service to your desire to defend all things Mourinho to such an extent it's making you look like a paid PR servant - just a bad one.

The shot at Poch was not only unnecessary it was stupid. Poch DID NOT set us up to play "insipid" in the CL final. He set us up the way he had for that entire run - ie haphazard; vulnerable but always ALWAYS capable of goals.

you're being ridiculous. Take a night off.

I'm personally bored of the Poch v Mourinho comparisons. Just more polarisation when it's not necessary. It's sad that it all went wrong for Poch. He's gone now and he's not coming back. He was great for us and a breath of fresh air but now we have a new manager who deserves a bit more than just three months to try and get us to being a team who can win trophies. He may succeed and he may not but he is not going to resign or get sacked this early just because things aren't going right.

 

[MichaelPawson]

I really liked Poch and was skeptical of the Mourinho appointment, but I think he's done okay with the resources provided to him and he hasn't embarrassed the club (yet) with any shitty comments or anything like that. What I worry about, though, is if this ends on bad terms, that no other top-class manager would want to attach themselves to what appears to be a rudderless ship. Finding and nurturing a Poch is incredibly hard to do. I would rather take (and I'm just pulling a name out of my ass here) a Nagelsmann-type manager in his prime over another "prospect" of a manager, especially with the state of the squad and the ages of our most important players. Would a coach like that (who would certainly have other options) want to attach themselves to a club that wasn't even willing to give Mourinho a "fair chance" at turning things around? Even with the strides the club has taken forward the past few years, I'm not convinced they would.

 

[ToDarrenIsToDo]

I really liked Poch and was skeptical of the Mourinho appointment, but I think he's done okay with the resources provided to him and he hasn't embarrassed the club (yet) with any shitty comments or anything like that. What I worry about, though, is if this ends on bad terms, that no other top-class manager would want to attach themselves to what appears to be a rudderless ship. Finding and nurturing a Poch is incredibly hard to do. I would rather take (and I'm just pulling a name out of my ass here) a Nagelsmann-type manager in his prime over another "prospect" of a manager, especially with the state of the squad and the age of our most important players. Would a coach like that (who would certainly have other options) want to attach themselves to a club that wasn't even willing to give Mourinho a "fair chance" at turning things around? Even with the strides the club has taken forward the past few years, I'm not convinced they would.

How are we a rudderless ship? World record profits we can fall back on, made top 4 for 4 seasons in a row, all of our key players tied down to long term deals, currently 1 point off of what would get us champions league qualification, made the final of the worlds biggest club competition last season, worldwide praise for our infrastructure from training ground to stadium, extra money to come from naming rights etc..... not what many would see as rudderless

 

[MichaelPawson]

How are we a rudderless ship? World record profits we can fall back on, made top 4 for 4 seasons in a row, all of our key players tied down to long term deals, currently 1 point off of what would get us champions league qualification, made the final of the worlds biggest club competition last season, worldwide praise for our infrastructure from training ground to stadium, extra money to come from naming rights etc..... not what many would see as rudderless

I mean results and performance wise. Our position on the table flatters to deceive, in my opinion. We've certainly fallen off from our peak under Poch, and though there are a ton of reasons why that's happened, it's up to the club's hierarchy to steady the ship in response (yay, more maritime references!). The infrastructure and other things you've mentioned are absolutely important and worth acknowledging; I just don't want it to be overshadowed by a perceived brashness from ENIC (which, of course, is built on the hypothetical of getting rid of Mourinho too soon).

 

[Shanks]

See this is what makes me wonder if you're on the wind-up - Mourinho's famous for being one of the most tactically adaptable managers of his generation - perhaps the most tactically flexible in the world, well known for changing up his teams, styles of play and game-plans for each individual opponent.

He gets this ridiculous defensive rep because of Inter's incredible run to win the Champion's League, and the last few months of his time at United.

His Chelsea and Real Madrid sides set goal-scoring records and played expansive, exhilarating football. His Inter and Porto teams also completely destroy your other myth that he has only ever bought success - that's utter nonsense.

You talk like other fans are poor saps who've bought into a false vision and somehow been duped by Mourinho, and yet it's you who is completely ignorant of his history, is ignoring all facts and evidence, and are just putting on a tinfoil hat and acting like a flat-earther who thinks that only you have been able to see through the grand conspiracy to the truth, and it's only a matter of time until everyone else agrees with you.

But that won't happen, because you're objectively and demonstrably wrong. Anyone who says something as ignorant as "Mourinho only knows one way to play" is publicly outing themselves as basically knowing fuck all about the game of football.

Mind if I keep this on copy mate!

winner of thread post in my opinion!

 

[CowInAComa]

See this is what makes me wonder if you're on the wind-up - Mourinho's famous for being one of the most tactically adaptable managers of his generation - perhaps the most tactically flexible in the world, well known for changing up his teams, styles of play and game-plans for each individual opponent.

He gets this ridiculous defensive rep because of Inter's incredible run to win the Champion's League, and the last few months of his time at United.

His Chelsea and Real Madrid sides set goal-scoring records and played expansive, exhilarating football. His Inter and Porto teams also completely destroy your other myth that he has only ever bought success - that's utter nonsense.

You talk like other fans are poor saps who've bought into a false vision and somehow been duped by Mourinho, and yet it's you who is completely ignorant of his history, is ignoring all facts and evidence, and are just putting on a tinfoil hat and acting like a flat-earther who thinks that only you have been able to see through the grand conspiracy to the truth, and it's only a matter of time until everyone else agrees with you.

But that won't happen, because you're objectively and demonstrably wrong. Anyone who says something as ignorant as "Mourinho only knows one way to play" is publicly outing themselves as basically knowing fuck all about the game of football.

Well let's hope he can put this legendary adaptability to use in solving the lack of Kane and Son that doesn't resort to hoofing it long to Lucas and hoping for the best.

Because so far it has only worked against teams at the bottom of the table and 10man city.

 

[ToDarrenIsToDo]

I mean results and performance wise. Our position on the table flatters to deceive, in my opinion. We've certainly fallen off from our peak under Poch, and though there are a ton of reasons why that's happened, it's up to the club's hierarchy to steady the ship in response (yay, more maritime references!). The infrastructure and other things you've mentioned are absolutely important and worth acknowledging; I just don't want it to be overshadowed by a perceived brashness from ENIC (which, of course, is built on the hypothetical of getting rid of Mourinho too soon).

Results wise, up until Sonny got injured we were bettered only by Liverpool for points gained since Mourinho took over.

During his tenure we have had 16 games without Lloris, our number 1 GK, 12 games missed wit Sissoko, the ex-players player of the season last year, 18 games without Davies, clearly our numbers 1 LB, 5 games without Sonny due to injury and suspension and 12 games without our main man Harry Kane.

Mourinho has been in charge for 23 games so all of these players, Kane, Davies, Lloris, Sissoko have missed over 50% of his matchday squads, with Sonny missing over 20%. Take that quality out of any team and you'll see it struggle performance wise.

 

[CowInAComa]

h

Or you could word it "please grandad, tell us about the time we finished higher than we have finished in the league since 1961 and the furthest we have ever got in the biggest club competition in the world.

Not really sure why certain Spurs fans don't see the positives in it all and instead berate or mock the club. Clearly achieving those two things is incredibly hard, a quick look at our near on 140 year history demonstrates that.

The guy didn't enjoy our best side since the 60s under Poch. Never enjoyed the bale, modric , Van Der vaart period and cl run either. No cups innit.

But fucking can't wait to tell his grandkids about the time Allan neilsen scored the winner in the Worthington cup final. That's what made it all worthwhile.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

I’ve got an idea I’ll write a really really long piece of bull shit, throw in some really long words to make it sound like I know about football to win this debate.

Congratulations you win at the internet

.....

?

It’s not worth it.

 

[MichaelPawson]

Results wise, up until Sonny got injured we were bettered only by Liverpool for points gained since Mourinho took over.

During his tenure we have had 16 games without Lloris, our number 1 GK, 12 games missed wit Sissoko, the ex-players player of the season last year, 18 games without Davies, clearly our numbers 1 LB, 5 games without Sonny due to injury and suspension and 12 games without our main man Harry Kane.

Mourinho has been in charge for 23 games so all of these players, Kane, Davies, Lloris, Sissoko have missed over 50% of his matchday squads, with Sonny missing over 20%. Take that quality out of any team and you'll see it struggle performance wise.

I think we're arguing different points. My impression of the club now is that it's in a rough patch, particularly in terms of performance; my impression would change if Mourinho were to be fired before being given a fair chance with a healthy squad. I think the real strength of the club (it's long-term outlook and its mostly competent stewardship under ENIC) would be directly undermined if we do not give the world-class manager (who, again, I continue to be a little suspicious of) more time than some on this board want to give him.

 

[Ionman34]

Oh yeah classy club, they suit each other.

about-turn
/əbaʊtˈtɛːn/
BRITISH
noun

1. (chiefly in military contexts) a turn made so as to face the opposite direction.
   "he did an about-turn and ...

 

[mpickard2087]

It’s not a matter of how long, I just want to see something that tells me he isn’t reverting to type. Just a glimmer that he might be about to try and dominate teams.

We all know how Jose plays football. But time and time again clubs and then some fans buy into the fact that Jose has changed... oh he’s used those 8 months out to really look at himself and he’s changed and blah blah blah.

But he hasn’t changed at all.
He only knows one way to play. And it’s not the Spurs way.

vs.

That's simply not true. It's a bit of a myth. He does priorities defense, but that's the key to any successful team. He sets teams up based on what's available to him. Had Kane and Son not been injured, our style of play would be very different right now. He will be aware of the traditions of Tottenham, the style we like to see, to play. He hasn't had time to fart since he's arrived. Spent most of his time putting out fires. A full pre-season, get more of his own players in, get rid of anyone that he doesn't want, give him the whole of next season, then judge him.

See this is what makes me wonder if you're on the wind-up - Mourinho's famous for being one of the most tactically adaptable managers of his generation - perhaps the most tactically flexible in the world, well known for changing up his teams, styles of play and game-plans for each individual opponent.

He gets this ridiculous defensive rep because of Inter's incredible run to win the Champion's League, and the last few months of his time at United.

His Chelsea and Real Madrid sides set goal-scoring records and played expansive, exhilarating football. His Inter and Porto teams also completely destroy your other myth that he has only ever bought success - that's utter nonsense.

You talk like other fans are poor saps who've bought into a false vision and somehow been duped by Mourinho, and yet it's you who is completely ignorant of his history, is ignoring all facts and evidence, and are just putting on a tinfoil hat and acting like a flat-earther who thinks that only you have been able to see through the grand conspiracy to the truth, and it's only a matter of time until everyone else agrees with you.

But that won't happen, because you're objectively and demonstrably wrong. Anyone who says something as ignorant as "Mourinho only knows one way to play" is publicly outing themselves as basically knowing fuck all about the game of football.

Both sides of the argument are half right, is the correct answer.

Mourinho makes adaptations for each team he is at and the personnel he has available. At Porto, Chelsea , Inter he played a different, albeit not totally alien to what had gone before, shape with each team. At Real Madrid he went to a 4-2-3-1 which he has by and large stuck with since.

However, every one of these teams has by and large played the same way (allowing for sometimes deploying certain players, or subtle tweaks, to counter specific players/threats). And always involves dropping deep in some form. He has a two-fold approach.

- His usual method, used most weeks against 'smaller' teams. Dropping into a medium-low block with half a dozen 'defensive' players, inviting the opposition out, and then putting a press/squeeze on and springing into life when the ball is turned over with lightening fast combinations and counter attacks between the attacking quartet to take advantage of an exposed opposition. Sometimes this has been into a target man focal point (eg. Porto, Chelsea), sometimes this is more passing based approach (eg. Madrid).

- What he has become more infamous for, rightly or wrongly. The tougher games where basically the whole team drops into as low a defensive block as possible and barely attempts to play football. All about defence, not conceding, and then trying to pounce on the handful of decent counter opportunities you will get across the 90 mins, or an opposition error (eg. the famous Slippy G game, or the Man City red card a few weeks back when they fucked up a corner), or at a set piece.

Since Porto it hasn't changed, his teams have always played in either of these two ways.

Other stuff has also been commonplace, including with his Spurs team thus far, such as the split fullbacks where one (Valente, Cole, Maicon, Marcelo) has the freedom to go forward whilst the other (Ferreira, Zanetti, Arbeloa) is far more conservative. Also always had certain numbers/positions 'allowed' to attack - the three forwards, No.10, and then either a fullback or another central midfielder, whilst the others are strictly focused on defensive aspect of the game and holding position.

I also don't think saying his teams were expansive was the correct terminology, that evokes the picture that they got up the pitch, played on the front foot, were full of flair and took the game to the opposition at every opportunity. Very efficient at what they did more like.

I've said a few times now, but having seen all of Mourinho's teams over the years I think the closest we've got to playing 'normally' in his style is the first 45 mins of Southampton away in the Cup. Dropped off, and then exposed their massive frailties on the counter and put together some great quick interchange moves that were missing the finishing touch. This is what his Real Madrid team did plenty, and they would have been 4 or 5-0 up at HT in that game as they were in so many in their time and how they are now known as an attacking free-scoring team.

The problem I see is that to play Mourinho's way is you need outstanding talent in your team to make a success of it. Every week you will be soaking up pressure to varying degrees, that requires very good pure defenders. In the back four plus cm2 at a minimum, they've got to be rock solid. For us that needs an absolute wholescale reconstruction of the defence and midfield to play his way. Attack I feel is less of an issue but to play against the best teams, where we'll be feeding more off scraps and need more consistent individual quality to be ready to take advantage of those, I think it's inevitable we'll also need a few additions there. Is it really likely and/or viable that we're going to get such a shake up in the short-ish term for Mourinho (who has always been a short term manager......) to do something with and mould in his image? I have considerable doubts.

 

[Lennon1981]

Or you could word it "please grandad, tell us about the time we finished higher than we have finished in the league since 1961 and the furthest we have ever got in the biggest club competition in the world.

Not really sure why certain Spurs fans don't see the positives in it all and instead berate or mock the club. Clearly achieving those two things is incredibly hard, a quick look at our near on 140 year history demonstrates that.

This this this.

I feel like we aren’t allowed to be proud of these things because we didn’t win either in the end.

I’ve supported spurs since 1990 and for the vast majority of the time we were terrible. When the sky 4 were at there peak I genuinely could never imagine us even being in the champions league never mind the final or fighting for a title.... twice! Playing the best football in the country.

As soon as you mention being proud of said achievements you’re mocked.