Jose Mourinho

[Deleted member 27995]

All those banging on about his negative football, did you actually watch the Champions League Final last year? Did you sit and watch as our (as fine as he was, commendable etc) manager sat on his hands for the best part of 60-70 minutes and just watched on as we tipped and tapped and plugged away with all that talent on the pitch? We were fucking shite. Where was the bravery? Where was the flair? Where was the devil may care attitude?

You are repeating tired old media spun bollocks about a manager that out managed our manager in an FA Cup semi final not two seasons ago. Tired and old, yet he still managed to win a pot that so many supposedly crave. Now they don't crave pots, they crave direction, pathways and visions ... Goal.Posts.Moved.

 

[rossdapep]

There is no point playing higher up the pitch as most of our defenders aren't quick and most of the forward players haven't got the technical ability or creativity to play against sides who are parking the bus.

Exactly!

 

[mpickard2087]

Lucas is a very interesting case. I am not sure whether any coaches would improve him at his age now. Even in Poch's era, he always looked like a massive talent but have no idea what should do on the pitch. It is annoying that he does not utilize his pace and keeps run into bodies

That's no excuse, for me. If he, or any other player, cant figure it out for themselves then as the manager you have to paint the picture for them. If you take my example from the previous post, how hard is it to do some one-on-one coaching with him and just explain for half hour what you need him to do and what runs you want him to make? You can organise and introduce tactical stuff to 6 year old kids who have barely kicked a football before in their lives with a 5 min chat, let alone a top level footballer.

If he then cant, or wont, carry out your instructions then simply bin him off and find someone else who hopefully will. But I'm not giving anyone especially the manager a free pass on that and I'm not accepting us going out with zero clue as to how we're going about our work.

 

[stov]

Three months and there are apologists? You sound like a child.

Not many children can use the word apologists so a quite well read child at the least. But if you have to lower your self to petty insults then onto the ignore list you go. Bye

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Not many children can use the word apologists so a quite well read child at the least. But if you have to lower your self to petty insults then onto the ignore list you go. Bye

?

 

[rossdapep]

Nothing wrong with playing on the back foot. If you do it well keep it tight and have a well drilled counter attack.

Leicester won the league doing it. Simeone has made a career of it taking on the big two of Spain successfully.

The issue is we neither have the players for it or the tactically wherewithal to have a coherent plan of action for when we attack or get the ball. We just basically immediately hoof it to a couple of tricksy lightweight attackers who are immediately dispossessed.

I just don't see how any coach could draw the conclusion given our squad strengths and weaknesses that our current tactics are the right tactics.

Even less so if we have no target man, it's a totally contradictory reaction to respond to having no forwards by hoofing to your nonexistent forward line. You have to build slow and bring in midfield runners.

Whilst you are correct, I just think we'd run into other issues if we played higher up. As someone has already stated, our defence are too slow and the likes of Son and Lucas are hardly possession based players. In fact we've conceded goals under Jose by playing ok the front foot and most of us said we wanted him to focus on the defence to shore it up.

We desperately need reinforcements. Too many players have been allowed to regress due to lack of competition others replaced with inferior players.

I'm actually excited by some of the players we've been linked to, the Lille boys, Aarons, Godfrey, Eze, Dias - all young players with excellent potential and certainly players with the attributes to play a system that Jose wants.

 

[rossdapep]

That's no excuse, for me. If he, or any other player, cant figure it out for themselves then as the manager you have to paint the picture for them. If you take my example from the previous post, how hard is it to do some one-on-one coaching with him and just explain for half hour what you need him to do and what runs you want him to make? You can organise and introduce tactical stuff to 6 year old kids who have barely kicked a football before in their lives with a 5 min chat, let alone a top level footballer.

If he then cant, or wont, carry out your instructions then simply bin him off and find someone else who hopefully will. But I'm not giving anyone especially the manager a free pass on that and I'm not accepting us going out with zero clue as to how we're going about our work.

I coach 17-18 year olds and you'll be amazed how many do the things you tell them not to do. Even after drilling it into them all week, they'll continue to hang on to the ball too long and delay a pass. Some just aren't coachable. I think Lucas is the same, he's very instinctive and his first thought is to run with the ball, it's hard to coach that out of a player as it's been his habit since a kid.

 

[AnotherSpursFan]

Need give Mourinho full support and show him love. The moment we fall to fake news media narrative, is the moment we self destruct.

 

[mpickard2087]

Whilst you are correct, I just think we'd run into other issues if we played higher up. As someone has already stated, our defence are too slow and the likes of Son and Lucas are hardly possession based players. In fact we've conceded goals under Jose by playing ok the front foot and most of us said we wanted him to focus on the defence to shore it up.

We desperately need reinforcements. Too many players have been allowed to regress due to lack of competition others replaced with inferior players.

I'm actually excited by some of the players we've been linked to, the Lille boys, Aarons, Godfrey, Eze, Dias - all young players with excellent potential and certainly players with the attributes to play a system that Jose wants.

What I will say though is that we only know we cant play on the front foot and get up the pitch with a certain two in defence.....

If you bite the bullet pension off Alderweireld and Vertonghen then on paper a backline of Aurier-Sanchez-Tanganga-Davies (or even Sessegnon…) has enough legs to play higher up the pitch.

The midfield in front of them in Lo Celso and Winks also much prefer, in their defensive duties, pressing and being tenacious and trying to get the ball back quickly rather than sitting and screening and being disciplined.

As I said yesterday, not convinced at all by that argument that we have to sit back, on paper for the majority of the squad it is the opposite I'd say.

 

[CowInAComa]

Whilst you are correct, I just think we'd run into other issues if we played higher up. As someone has already stated, our defence are too slow and the likes of Son and Lucas are hardly possession based players. In fact we've conceded goals under Jose by playing ok the front foot and most of us said we wanted him to focus on the defence to shore it up.

We desperately need reinforcements. Too many players have been allowed to regress due to lack of competition others replaced with inferior players.

I'm actually excited by some of the players we've been linked to, the Lille boys, Aarons, Godfrey, Eze, Dias - all young players with excellent potential and certainly players with the attributes to play a system that Jose wants.

We can go toe to toe with Southampton I reckon.

 

[rossdapep]

If you think the football we play and the football United played under him (in other words his last five years of work) is winning football or entertaining football, then good luck to you.

And yes I know United won a couple of trophies under him. In his first year, having won a trophy the year before. The longer he had with them, the worse they got.

Actually there was a period in the middle where the fans were loving the football, they were making songs about Jose and how he'd brought entertainment back.

The problem was the likes of Pogba, Martial and Shaw weren't happy and started to sound off to their agents, Woodward backed the players when Jose wanted to shift them on and then blocked a couple of his transfers. Bailly got injured too which didn't help.

Of course that could happen here too but I think Levy wouldn't side with one or two players as much. As long as it's not Kane.

 

[rossdapep]

What I will say though is that we only know we cant play on the front foot and get up the pitch with a certain two in defence.....

If you bite the bullet pension off Alderweireld and Vertonghen then on paper a backline of Aurier-Sanchez-Tanganga-Davies (or even Sessegnon…) has enough legs to play higher up the pitch.

The midfield in front of them in Lo Celso and Winks also much prefer, in their defensive duties, pressing and being tenacious and trying to get the ball back quickly rather than sitting and screening and being disciplined.

As I said yesterday, not convinced at all by that argument that we have to sit back, on paper for the majority of the squad it is the opposite I'd say.

You could be right but Jose likes some experience. The fact that Vertonghen is struggling even when defending deep highlights how much he's regressed and how much he needs replacing.

 

[mpickard2087]

I coach 17-18 year olds and you'll be amazed how many do the things you tell them not to do. Even after drilling it into them all week, they'll continue to hang on to the ball too long and delay a pass. Some just aren't coachable. I think Lucas is the same, he's very instinctive and his first thought is to run with the ball, it's hard to coach that out of a player as it's been his habit since a kid.

a) In my example I'm only talking about a simple run forward whenever we regained the ball, I'm not expecting miracles and I don't think that is too much to ask.

b) If he cant do it, this is professional football and you can be brutal. Find someone else who will do the job you want. We cant afford to muck about.

c) I've also done a bit of kids level coaching, even at those ages I hate to admit but those sort of mavericks who wont listen or just want to do their own thing I/we tend to engineer out of the equation - bench them and almost always they sign up to another team very quickly. That might sound extremely harsh, it probably is I admit, but if you're trying to get every kid into the game and be a team and all enjoy it then those people who just want all the ball and to do it all themselves ruin it for everyone.

 

[CowInAComa]

The idea that we only have the players to play negative deep lying tactics is nonsense really isn't it.

 

[austinfh]

All those banging on about his negative football, did you actually watch the Champions League Final last year? Did you sit and watch as our (as fine as he was, commendable etc) manager sat on his hands for the best part of 60-70 minutes and just watched on as we tipped and tapped and plugged away with all that talent on the pitch? We were fucking shite. Where was the bravery? Where was the flair? Where was the devil may care attitude?

You are repeating tired old media spun bollocks about a manager that out managed our manager in an FA Cup semi final not two seasons ago. Tired and old, yet he still managed to win a pot that so many supposedly crave. Now they don't crave pots, they crave direction, pathways and visions ... Goal.Posts.Moved.

not to mention the fact that we're absolutely shit at playing out from the back at the moment, our defence is so dodgy on the ball, we've got a good midfield in terms of passers but lack of a target man means it will never stick up top. We were 3rd in points under Jose before yesterday's game, it's called pragmatic football and you ride your luck, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't, obviously he needs a summer transfer window and pre-season before he can be judged properly

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

I think a lot of fans are gonna be in shock when they find out this passive, reactive, park-the-bus kind of football we’ve been seeing isn’t just born out of necessity due to our squad limitations, it’s actually Jose’s overarching philosophy.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

The idea that we only have the players to play negative deep lying tactics is nonsense really isn't it.

of course it is

 

[Deleted member 27995]

not to mention the fact that we're absolutely shit at playing out from the back at the moment, our defence is so dodgy on the ball, we've got a good midfield in terms of passers but lack of a target man means it will never stick up top. We were 3rd in points under Jose before yesterday's game, it's called pragmatic football and you ride your luck, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't, obviously he needs a summer transfer window and pre-season before he can be judged properly

Totally, this reflects where I'm at. It could probably be a rough period getting there, but prepared like all the managers that have gone before, to give it that time.

 

[rossdapep]

a) In my example I'm only talking about a simple run forward whenever we regained the ball, I'm not expecting miracles and I don't think that is too much to ask.

b) If he cant do it, this is professional football and you can be brutal. Find someone else who will do the job you want. We cant afford to muck about.

c) I've also done a bit of kids level coaching, even at those ages I hate to admit but those sort of mavericks who wont listen or just want to do their own thing I/we tend to engineer out of the equation - bench them and almost always they sign up to another team very quickly. That might sound extremely harsh, it probably is I admit, but if you're trying to get every kid into the game and be a team and all enjoy it then those people who just want all the ball and to do it all themselves ruin it for everyone.

Wholeheartedly agree with your points.

I have said numerous times that I'd happily swap Lucas with a similar player who has more intelligence and can be used in more than one system. Lucas has flashes of brilliance but there's very little consistency, he can't receive the ball to feet when facing away from goal, his first touch is often poor which means we constantly give up possession. Which leads to issues as our team are preparing for transition but then get caught out as we lose possession easily (Chelseas first goal).

I think anyone who doesn't fit into Jose's system should be gone. Obviously that'll take a few windows but we need players who can do these aspects better.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

I think a lot of fans are gonna be in shock when they find out this passive, reactive, park-the-bus kind of football we’ve been seeing isn’t just born out of necessity due to our squad limitations, it’s actually Jose’s overarching philosophy.

Just think of some of the greats of this modern era he has had play for him under that philosophy and what those players and him won both personally and as a club ... Boy, we can only dream, can't we?