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Jose Mourinho

How do you feel about Mourinho appointment

  • Excited - silverware here we come baby

    Votes: 666 46.7%
  • Meh - will give him a chance and hope he is successful

    Votes: 468 32.8%
  • Horrified - praying for the day he'll fuck off

    Votes: 292 20.5%

  • Total voters
    1,426

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,886
32,512
Yeah, seeing a lot of 'he has to play this way' as if that's the tools available to him but I'm not buying that.

Take the raw ingredients available currently:

Skip the centre backs for now, we'll come back to that at the end, beyond that we have basically Dier (really struggling) and Davies as steady, defensive minded players. Wanyama I discount, as he is nowhere to be seen. Aurier loves to bomb forward and is positionally suspect.

As for the rest, in midfield you have Skipp and Winks who are your tidy pass and move players. Defensive duties not their strong points but their qualities in this aspect is they're quite tenacious and can press aggressively and win the ball back. Ndombele and Lo Celso are obviously ball players, Lo Celso is a tenacious presser rather than holder and Ndombele's defensive ability we see isn't great. Gedson we don't know so much about but we're led to believe he's a more technical attack minded player in the midfield also.

Then you have Alli whose best work is done when we're up the pitch and he can float around the penalty area popping up impacting play. Lamela wants to play pass and move to feet. Bergwijn and Moura also like the ball to feet rather than running in behind. We also have Sessegnon who on the left is a more attack minded player.

For the majority of this group, especially in midfield, their qualities would suggest going with proactive tactics and wanting to play on the front foot and getting the ball down and playing and then with fluidity of movement of players/ball you can possibly mitigate the missing striker. Just generally trying to have a go and impose ourselves on proceedings via footballing/attacking superiority. And maybe you could do this if someone had the bollocks to pension off Jan and Toby and for instance put Sanchez and Tanganga, who can at least move and recover if the ball goes in behind them, at the back and allow us to push up the pitch.

Passive, low block, keep it tight football just doesn't look on paper what you'd do with this group. Even get Kane, Son, Sissoko back and I don't think that really changes. You can of course argue that considering the vast majority of the squad came in under another manager this isn't much of a surprise, but even the transfers so far I dont think take the team in a different direction and in any case is it likely we see a total overhaul of the team?
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
18,702
46,941
The main question in all of this for me.

Do the players believe in this?

Does'nt look like they do to me.

If so it's game over.
What makes you think they don’t out of interest?

i didn’t see the game today but In recent matches players are certainly running and trying. If I was a player being instructed to play like this I’d hate it but I wonder if they believe in his past and if they think playing like this can be successfu.
 

alfie103

Well-Known Member
Jun 4, 2005
3,967
4,440
So you don’t think Toby, Jan, Winks, Lo Celso, Ndombele, Bergwijn can control a football?

I’ll leave out Lucas, because I’m not sure he can half the time.

Chelsea weren’t exactly a well-oiled pressing machine today.

Well they didn't hold onto it much when they were under pressure. Only Lo Celso and maybe Bergwijn looked like they could control the ball and make a good pass under pressure.
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,179
48,764
Well they didn't hold onto it much when they were under pressure. Only Lo Celso and maybe Bergwijn looked like they could control the ball and make a good pass under pressure.
Could it be that constantly having no passing options or not being coached as to where team-mates will he has made players unsure of themselves? Confidence will affect a first touch worse than anything else.
 

fortworthspur

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2007
11,244
17,536
Yeah, seeing a lot of 'he has to play this way' as if that's the tools available to him but I'm not buying that.

Take the raw ingredients available currently:

Skip the centre backs for now, we'll come back to that at the end, beyond that we have basically Dier (really struggling) and Davies as steady, defensive minded players. Wanyama I discount, as he is nowhere to be seen. Aurier loves to bomb forward and is positionally suspect.

As for the rest, in midfield you have Skipp and Winks who are your tidy pass and move players. Defensive duties not their strong points but their qualities in this aspect is they're quite tenacious and can press aggressively and win the ball back. Ndombele and Lo Celso are obviously ball players, Lo Celso is a tenacious presser rather than holder and Ndombele's defensive ability we see isn't great. Gedson we don't know so much about but we're led to believe he's a more technical attack minded player in the midfield also.

Then you have Alli whose best work is done when we're up the pitch and he can float around the penalty area popping up impacting play. Lamela wants to play pass and move to feet. Bergwijn and Moura also like the ball to feet rather than running in behind. We also have Sessegnon who on the left is a more attack minded player.

For the majority of this group, especially in midfield, their qualities would suggest going with proactive tactics and wanting to play on the front foot and getting the ball down and playing and then with fluidity of movement of players/ball you can possibly mitigate the missing striker. Just generally trying to have a go and impose ourselves on proceedings via footballing/attacking superiority. And maybe you could do this if someone had the bollocks to pension off Jan and Toby and for instance put Sanchez and Tanganga, who can at least move and recover if the ball goes in behind them, at the back and allow us to push up the pitch.

Passive, low block, keep it tight football just doesn't look on paper what you'd do with this group. Even get Kane, Son, Sissoko back and I don't think that really changes. You can of course argue that considering the vast majority of the squad came in under another manager this isn't much of a surprise, but even the transfers so far I dont think take the team in a different direction and in any case is it likely we see a total overhaul of the team?
I dont think a complete overhaul is needed. We have a nucleus but half that nucleus is either injured or new to the club, in two cases very new. And lets be honest, Ndombele may come good but he may not. IMO at a minimum we need to replace Verts, Davies, Wanyama and add a striker. And hope Ndombele turns out to be the real deal.
 

Ronwol196061

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2018
3,925
3,646
I wouldn't say winks is good. This will be unpopular because I know how many spurs fans rate him, why I do not know. He's a nothing player for me, typical English overhyped. 2 goals and next to zero assists in 4 years at 24 years old from midfield is appalling. Offers nothing defensively as a shield for the back 4. No where near good enough to be first choice for us. As for ndombele it's clear there is a very good player in there world class even but he's not fit or hasn't come to terms with the physicality of the PL, he needs time. But if we want to achieve anything an upgrade on winks is an absolutely necessity for me. It's really key

I'm no fan if Winks I mean he is a nice guy but that's no criterion,I agree he is mediocre generally.
But I too get hammered with that. NDombele I'm a fan because we need players with class but we can't have handle gently players with glass.Its premier league football just talent was ok in the 60's but now its not enough unless you can create more goals than you let in but thatsca dream.It takes courage. You better be ready
Look at Lo Celso ok a couple if bad tackles but how courageous is he. He us a little guy. NDombele should be embarrassed. As I said I'm a fan and I'm embarrassed for him
 

PeeLee

Active Member
Oct 2, 2019
207
218
Seeing our lack of passion and fight in a London derby, not going for it, is the first time I have ever felt any disquiet about Jose's appointment. Which his post match Interview did nothing to dispel.
Which his post match Interview did nothing to dispel.

Post-match and pre-match, there are far too many interviews. By media demand, and using sponsors to force that kind of arrangement, it has nothing to do with football. Nothing at all. It's about commerce and selling. All managers/coaches in the Premier League have to do it, yet again and again there are no film clips or extended comments to speak of from Brendan Rodgers, Frank Lampard, Chris Wilder, Sean Dyche or a dozen other Premier League managers. Instead, media obsession with Klopp, Guardiola but especially Mourinho goes on and on and on and on ad nauseam. Just like they pick on certain footballers and go and on and on about them in order to whip up some audience-reaction on radio shows — bone-idle, dull and often screeching pseudo-journalism that doesn't actually 'cover the waterfront' but reverts constantly to the same limited range of individuals to 'throw things at'.

Today at Stamford Bridge, Chelsea played Spurs, but it wasn't presented as that and nor has it been reported as that. Instead, it's this Mourinho Mourinho Mourinho Mourinho coverage. Much the same as they did when Pochettino was employed at Tottenham — the ignoring of most other managers and coaches but with the constant headlining about very often quite ordinary and workaday comments. They go on about his 'awful football' but never their crappy journalism.
 

spids

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2015
6,647
27,841
Jose got totally schooled today (again) by Fat Frank. We played 3 CBs against their one forward and gave up the midfield. This ‘the team with the most possession makes the most mistakes’ is bullshit in 2020. It had its day back when Greece won the Euros and Mourinho was in his hey day. But now pace and aggression are key. Play the game, inc. the transitions in your opponents half. Fast forward 2021 when we might have players to play this crap, cowardly football.
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,886
32,512
I dont think a complete overhaul is needed. We have a nucleus but half that nucleus is either injured or new to the club, in two cases very new. And lets be honest, Ndombele may come good but he may not. IMO at a minimum we need to replace Verts, Davies, Wanyama and add a striker. And hope Ndombele turns out to be the real deal.

But the thing is going on 15 years of watching Mourinho teams, this squad will need a complete overhaul. He has two modes, the all out defence we have seen this week, and the other is the medium-low block followed by squeezing and then rapid counter attacks. That approach still soaks up pressure.

Southampton away is personally I think exactly how Mourinho wants us to play most weeks against 'weaker' teams and what the norm will be in the long term. Lure them out and then break on them. That game we should have been leading but even then we leaked plenty of chances and second half got battered.

What worries me for a lot of fans is I've seen a load of comments like "oh if Southampton or whatever game is the norm going forward then of course that's a problem" still thinking we're going to get some more proactive, dominating approach after a summer to spruce up the team. Well I think they are going to be disappointed, fairly certain that wont happen. He ain't going to change what he's done for 15 years.

But to play that way requires a largely defensive minded and solid platform to play on throughout the defence and midfield that is capable of absorbing pressure. So it will take a huge overhaul because I'd say at least 75% of the team just isn't wired to play that way. He'd need 8-10 players fairly sharpish, minimum.
 

PeeLee

Active Member
Oct 2, 2019
207
218
Chelsea started the game without their two top scorers (Abraham & Batshuayi) and what most would call their best 2 wingers (Willian & Pulisic) not to mention no Kante and still beat the shit out of us. As a matter of fact out of their top 6 scorers this season only 2 were on the pitch in Jorginho & Mount.
Never mind all that matey, that's football. It was all about 'Mourinho v Lampard', apparently. Didn't you know?
 

Dr Benson

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2013
465
569
Would Mourinho have taken the job if he was clairvoyant and could see this scenario with injuries through his crystal ball?
 

spud

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2003
5,850
8,794
So far I am disappointed in only two aspects of Mourinho's reign: what he does and what he says.

He sets the team up to defend, and to defend passively. Consequently the opposition - any opposition - has more of the ball and we are almost continually under pressure with the players chasing shadows. When we do get the ball there is no coherent plan on how to progress it up the field, and there is certainly no discernable attacking plan. We just seem to rely on our very talented front players to conjure something up. There is no pattern to our play when we have the ball. I have no idea what we are supposed to be trying to do and I get the feeling that the players don't either.

If we're going to defend in a low block, fine. But if you do that you have to have a plan for what happens when you get the ball. Hitting it long for Moura and Bergwijn to chase won't cut it in this league against good defenders. Even if they get the ball, what are they supposed to do with it? Hold it up when they're outnumbered and wait for the rest of the team to catch up? They might occasionally get a run on goal, but basing our attacking plan solely on that is going to get us absolutely nowhere.

What he says is, if anything, even worse. After the last few games we have heard the same excuse: we have no strikers, we have to play the same players all the time, and they are tired. 'What do you expect?' is what he is saying. 'I'm not a miracle worker, I can't do anything with no strikers and a squad of exhausted players'. It's bollocks.

Since last week, let's have a look at who is injured:
Defenders: none
Midfielders: Sissoko
Forwards: Kane and Son

So four players are out. True, some others have recently returned from injury, but do we only have a squad of 15? There are numerous options all over the pitch; the only thing we don't have is a first choice centre-forward.

If the players are tired, it's because they spend the bulk of the match chasing shadows. If we don't press as a team the opposition will simply pass it around us. This is what happens in every game. If we pressed coherently the players would be less tired because they would use their energy in short bursts and they would win the ball back. It's a truism that you feel more tired when you're running around to no purpose. If we had the ball more - if we weren't coached to be so passive - tiredness wouldn't be so much of an issue. If, indeed, it is an issue at all.

As to the lack of forwards, we have enough talented attacking players to be able to create and finish chances. But if we rarely have the ball and there is no plan for how we should attack then we won't create those chances. And we're not.

I am sick and tired of Mourinho trotting out the same excuses after every shit performance. He is supposed to be a great coach. He has enough good players to be able to put a team on the field with a plan that will enable us to compete and to win.

He is failing miserably.
 

fortworthspur

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2007
11,244
17,536
But the thing is going on 15 years of watching Mourinho teams, this squad will need a complete overhaul. He has two modes, the all out defence we have seen this week, and the other is the medium-low block followed by squeezing and then rapid counter attacks. That approach still soaks up pressure.

Southampton away is personally I think exactly how Mourinho wants us to play most weeks against 'weaker' teams and what the norm will be in the long term. Lure them out and then break on them. That game we should have been leading but even then we leaked plenty of chances and second half got battered.

What worries me for a lot of fans is I've seen a load of comments like "oh if Southampton or whatever game is the norm going forward then of course that's a problem" still thinking we're going to get some more proactive, dominating approach after a summer to spruce up the team. Well I think they are going to be disappointed, fairly certain that wont happen. He ain't going to change what he's done for 15 years.

But to play that way requires a largely defensive minded and solid platform to play on throughout the defence and midfield that is capable of absorbing pressure. So it will take a huge overhaul because I'd say at least 75% of the team just isn't wired to play that way. He'd need 8-10 players fairly sharpish, minimum.
dunno what his plans are but I dont see why some of the younger players cant be coached up. he's already gone to work setting up a defensive shape, which has been hampered by player availability and form. Anyway, you are right about how we are going to look under him and nobody should be surprised.
 

PeeLee

Active Member
Oct 2, 2019
207
218
Of course we’re willing to give him the time that’s required, but his defeatist attitude and comments are becoming tiresome. It’s bound to permeate to the players and becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Get some fighting attitude Jose.
He should smile at interviews and make sure to say much less. He should speak in generalities. That's all he has to do: be charming, philosophical, and essentially say 'Despite difficulties, we carry on'. None of this interview lark has anything to do with managing a football team. Interviews are about the show business the Money is trying to turn football into.
 

thelak

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,166
6,950
I’m genuinely baffled reading all the comments dissecting our play under Jose

We were delivering relegation form under Poch for 12 months

this is a busted squad!
 

fortworthspur

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2007
11,244
17,536
Maybe. But, could and would another manager like e.g. Klopp done things very differrently right now?
fuck no. Klopp has got a great thing going right now but he had to spend bigtime to do it. Want a CB? 75 million for VanDijk. Need a new keeper - here's 60+ million.
 
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