Jose Mourinho

[Ionman34]

Not having that at all. Until the last few years/decade games were far more open and the lesser teams would have a go rather than just determinedly sit back in a very low block and defend their goal. That is a big change, it was never common back in the 90's and 00's for teams to routinely have 70, 75, or more, percent of the ball.

Mourinho was ahead of the pack when it came to fast transitions and specifically making use of them - his 1st Chelsea and especially Madrid teams you and others might deem attacking but I saw score majority of goals using this exact mantra of dropping to a mid block, drawing teams out, and then spring on them and being experts at countering into the space. The game now though has caught up a lot, with the focus on them and how to attack and defend with them.

It is also easier when he's with strong teams, with outstanding individual players, to work it out themselves and make the difference. In his last two or three jobs the quality of player and strength of team available to him has decreased, and I feel his lack of comfort and tactical ethos for 'front foot' football has become more apparent.

His first Chelsea team would attack from the first whistle, score early, then adopt the low block to draw teams out that were chasing the game. He did exactly the same with RM when they blitzed the league,, only adopting the low block from the start against teams he knew would take the game to him, like Barca.

It's been a source of debate recently that more and more "lesser" teams have tried to play more front foot Football, with Daniel Farque's Norwich, Potter's Brighton etc being examples of this. Why? Because they've stepped away from the norm for "lesser" teams to stay compact and "in the game." THAT has been the norm for decades, not this open game that you seem to believe was prevalent.

Like I said, the game has evolved somewhat, but not that much.

 

[SpursD22]

He failed because when BOTH him and Pep spent big in their first season they realised they had a lot more work to do.

Pep was allowed to rip everything up, binning his new gk (Bravo) off in the process and spend a further 200m

Jose was told he had limited funds to do it but was still expected to win the league.

He got on with it, finished 2nd but realised they needed so much more to beat this City side who already had the core in place before Pep arrived (Silva. Aguero, De Bruyne, Kompany, Fernandinho).

In contrast Jose had Jones, Smalling, Valencia, an ageing Rooney, De Gea, Young as his core with Rashford who was still very raw, Bailly who was supposed to be his defensive rock but got injured and Pogba and Martial - two players who respond better to positive messages and hugs than his style.

It was doomed to fail from the start and he took that job because he wanted to get right back into the game. He admitted he took it without looking at the whole picture first.

At least with us he won't have that level of pressure to win right now, so he'll be afforded a bit of time to get the balance right. The issue will be of he can get players who he wants and if the players can stay motivated for long enough but I think if he was to win a cup next year the players will have more belief and dig in.

How the f is 419M limited funds looool this is absurd. And let’s not act like Jose didn’t get to bring on new players on positions he already spent money on like Lindelof, Sanchez and Lukaku. He also had experienced players, he had decent players like Mata, Herrera, Schneiderlin, Smalling, he had a world class keeper in De Gea, he had big young talents like Rashford, Martial and Depay and yet he played shit football and was miles off Chelsea and Man City. And he got knocked out by Sevilla at home in the CL

We need a big rebuild and we will only waste it if we do it with him, just watch

 

[Deleted member 27995]

How the f is 419M limited funds looool this is absurd. And let’s not act like Jose didn’t get to bring on new players on positions he already spent money on like Lindelof, Sanchez and Lukaku. He also had experienced players, he had decent players like Mata, Herrera, Schneiderlin, Smalling, he had a world class keeper in De Gea, he had big young talents like Rashford, Martial and Depay and yet he played shit football and was miles off Chelsea and Man City. And he got knocked out by Sevilla at home in the CL

We need a big rebuild and we will only waste it if we do it with him, just watch

I get you don't like the bloke, but did you enjoy us beating Arsenal today?

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

No understanding of football yet sets us up perfectly today. I like that he treats the players like pros. Making them do different things each game.


Could you talk us through your tactics today with Sissoko and Lucas out wide?
How much did you pay for the class? (Laughs) Amazon are the lucky guys because they know everything. Look to be honest Arsenal are playing well, in my opinion.
Since Mikel changed and since they started playing with three plus the wing-backs, two midfield players plus the three attacking players who are all very good. I think they're playing very well.
I thought I needed to give the team a different shape and to control that we would be in a better position to try to win the game.
They play with Bellerin and Tierney really wide and high, then they bring Aubameyang and Pepe or Saka to the inside. I wanted my back four to be focused on closing the central areas and jumping only to the wing-backs in special occasions. For that I needed a sacrifice from Sissoko and Lucas.
Even then we had two targets in attacking transitions and to go on to change the direction of the play. With Sonny close to Harry I felt that we could have both, one coming more for the ball and being more a target man and the other making the runs and attacking the space.
So it was our strategy for the game but more important than that was the players. The mentality and the way they embraced the game and the rivalry with Arsenal.

Exactly as i said I'm not a fan of hit style but his level of understanding of the game is phenomenal up there with any manager really.

 

[JCRD]

The performance was a lot better than previous performances and shows that our players are slightly better than a goalless draw withzero on target shots against the second bottom team int he league...

I still found that up until our second goal we sat back and just urgh - first half anf final 15 were good but that half hour was dross.

All i think we want is Jose to be a bit more adventurous and one performance is selling it to me but as ive always said ill give him an opportunity but please fucking dont play not to lose but play to win

 

[SpursD22]

I get you don't like the bloke, but did you enjoy us beating Arsenal today?

I don’t hate him lol he seems like a nice guy and is a football legend

And of course I did, I screamed fuck yeah very loud when Toby scored

 

[Deleted member 27995]

I don’t hate him lol he seems like a nice guy and is a football legend

And of course I did, I screamed fuck yeah very loud when Toby scored

Not all bad then

 

[whitelanefever]

That 4411 formation works, it suits Kane he can drop off like he likes & detail with Son. Leaves space to attack.. When we have 3 coming inside behind Harry it just congests everything.. Was still times when Davies had ball & both Moura & Son were coming towards ball. One of them has to run in behind to open play up & drag defenders out of position..same when Son had ball centrally edge of box & he played it to Moura Son should spun out round the back of Moura into box to give him an option.. Think there might be a lack of trust there that he'd get ball back.. I thought Arsenal were there for taking start of 2nd half if we pressed them but we sat off into our own half it worked in the end & got win but I think keeping ball is best way of not conceding.. First half I'd happily except us playing like that & winning 2nd half we probably been punished by a good team

 

[rossdapep]

The performance was a lot better than previous performances and shows that our players are slightly better than a goalless draw withzero on target shots against the second bottom team int he league...

I still found that up until our second goal we sat back and just urgh - first half anf final 15 were good but that half hour was dross.

All i think we want is Jose to be a bit more adventurous and one performance is selling it to me but as ive always said ill give him an opportunity but please fucking dont play not to lose but play to win

We did and I didn't enjoy being so deep but I have a feeling if we tried to push higher up we'd have been caught out as we were getting leggy.

If Jose gets the players he wants and we start to have better options, especially in midfield, and we spend 30 mins sat back like that then I won't be happy and we will be inviting pressure onto ourselves.

But the positive aspect to this is that concentration levels are now rising. Players know that they have to be completely focused and maintain a shape. Under Poch we won games in the last ten minutes because we had huge determination, we need to get that back. Alternatively we lost big games under Poch because we didnt have that level of concentration either.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

More green shoots today. For the last few games we've looked extremely solid defensively, but abject going forwards. Not so long ago you shared the opinion that solidifying the defence was the priority, well, aside from some blips, which every side suffers, we've got that solidity. The last 6 games are, I think, a good enough sample size to see that his work with the defensive unit is definitely taking. The worry about our forward transition was valid though, with Bournemouth being the absolute Nadir, we were awful.

But today has really alleviated my concerns, though obviously not 100% as, same as 1 match wasn't sufficient to judge the defensive capabilities on, we can't assume all is peachy after this 1 good offensive performance.

Yes, offensively it was a good performance,, as we created multiple chances that, had our finishing been a little better, would have seen us run out comfortable winners, and deservedly so. They had more possession, but we were comfortably better than them, Hugo had a quiet one compared to Martinez.

I said previously, in the manager watch thread, that we need to see some evidence, up to the end of the season, that there has been some work done on our offensive transition. Today showed me that it has at least started.

Think on that for a bit, it's just starting and we really should have gone out winning by at least 2, against a resurgent goon side that most of us, me included, thought would have us on toast.

Have a look at some of the dynamism shown today going forward. Some progressive pass and move, definitely better movement up top and some lovely diagonal passing into dangerous areas. The winning goal resulted from one such pass to Kane, forcing a save from Martinez which gave us the corner.

Still lots of work to do, but for me, a fairly big step in the right direction. Unlike a few on here, I can't stand tikka taka Football. As pretty as it may look, I'd much rather see fast, powerful transition where you suck the opposition into making a mistake then tear their throat out, so to speak. Might have something to do with me being a poker player, as I love setting traps and putting an opponent to the sword when they think they're in front.

Amazing how a good result, particularly a deserved one, can lift your spirits and your outlook.

Can't argue with any of that mate and definitely reasons to be more positive today for sure, the style of play is just not really for me but as I've said many times if it brings exceptional results then we can put up with it but as soon as results slip to anything below outstanding then the fans will turn because you cant play that way and not win as think the fans will stick with it.

But sure he got the tactics spot on today and its a good result. I'm just more the school of thought that if you're dominating the ball and creating lots of chances you're firstly stopping the opposition from being dangerous and secondly you're more likely to score, whereas Joseball is the exact opposite and today it worked sure but it relied on a mistake from their defender and a goal from a corner, I'd feel more confident if we played more positively and then adopted the low block once we were ahead.

Anyways onwards and upwards i'll of course stay behind the team but can't say its particularly enjoyable.

What will be key is if Levy can actually get Jose some half decent players who fit how we wants to play as that could actually make a big difference. For example as much as he might divide opinion on here if we had say Willian instead of Lucas today i think we'd have created more and probably scored another goal, same thing if we had a right back who could actually cross.

Under Jose at Chelsea Ivanovic got about 6 goals the season they won the league i think and tons of assists, Aurier is no where near that level i'm afraid. So for Jose's style i'd say the keys are:
upgrade RB
New DM
New CM if Ndombele can't be relied upon
New upgrade AM e.g. someone of Willian's quality
Back-up ST who can play in place of or alongside Kane.

Big summer ahead lets see how clever we can be in the market but i'm not holding out hope in levy.

COYS.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

That 4411 formation works, it suits Kane he can drop off like he likes & detail with Son. Leaves space to attack.. When we have 3 coming inside behind Harry it just congests everything.. Was still times when Davies had ball & both Moura & Son were coming towards ball. One of them has to run in behind to open play up & drag defenders out of position..same when Son had ball centrally edge of box & he played it to Moura Son should spun out round the back of Moura into box to give him an option.. Think there might be a lack of trust there that he'd get ball back.. I thought Arsenal were there for taking start of 2nd half if we pressed them but we sat off into our own half it worked in the end & got win but I think keeping ball is best way of not conceding.. First half I'd happily except us playing like that & winning 2nd half we probably been punished by a good team

good analysis

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Don't get me wrong, that's bad. But, the average per match in the league is 4.

Mabye we were spoilt under Poch then mate, i swear when we were at our peak we were getting a good 15-20 shots a game and a good 7-10 shots on target.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Poch lost more than he won against every "big" club, whereas Mourinho's record has more wins than losses against every single club except for Barcelona, Bayern Munich, and Chelsea...

Mauricio Pochettino - Record against …

This statistics show the results of the manager Mauricio Pochettino against other clubs in all competitions.

www.transfermarkt.us

José Mourinho - Record against …

This statistics show the results of the manager José Mourinho against other clubs in all competitions.

www.transfermarkt.us

So maybe pragmatism is something that will serve us well

You could be right to be fair mate, as i've said before it might not be pretty but it can be very effective. I'm not a huge fan of the style but yes his results in the big games have been pretty strong can't argue with that. Almost the reverse to Poch.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

you’re right. Spurs is letting us fans down at every fucking moment. I’m sick and tired of it. Maybe it’s time to try another way?

huh?

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

The performance was a lot better than previous performances and shows that our players are slightly better than a goalless draw withzero on target shots against the second bottom team int he league...

I still found that up until our second goal we sat back and just urgh - first half anf final 15 were good but that half hour was dross.

All i think we want is Jose to be a bit more adventurous and one performance is selling it to me but as ive always said ill give him an opportunity but please fucking dont play not to lose but play to win

agree

 

[JCRD]

We did and I didn't enjoy being so deep but I have a feeling if we tried to push higher up we'd have been caught out as we were getting leggy.

If Jose gets the players he wants and we start to have better options, especially in midfield, and we spend 30 mins sat back like that then I won't be happy and we will be inviting pressure onto ourselves.

But the positive aspect to this is that concentration levels are now rising. Players know that they have to be completely focused and maintain a shape. Under Poch we won games in the last ten minutes because we had huge determination, we need to get that back. Alternatively we lost big games under Poch because we didnt have that level of concentration either.

Hopefully he does get those options. Im not convinced but like ive said I would give him an opportunity but hopefully this is a turning point for us going forward

Youre right about concentration and thats just mentality but we did win a lot of points coming from behind or int he last few minutes particularly last season as we know

 

[C0YS]

Mabye we were spoilt under Poch then mate, i swear when we were at our peak we were getting a good 15-20 shots a game and a good 7-10 shots on target.

Close

This season
4.2
18/19
5
17/18
5.7
16/17
6.8 (league high)
15/16
6.6 (league high)
14/15
4.5

So at our peak we were getting around 7 shots a game on average, and the league leaders in that category, but we have been falling season by season ever since. The average you posted would rank bottom in the league btw. So it is something to criticise, but it's not as bad as it looks.

 

[John48]

You have to give the manager credit today because he got his tactics right. Putting Sissoko out wide on the right pretty much stopped their LB getting forward & Moura did a similar job on the left. Plus putting Son up front with Kane also gave their 3 CB's problems.

 

[panoma]

Since the end of 2015, Jose has finished 2nd in the Premier League and won three trophies in England, one of them European.

He also won two trophies in 2015, including the Premier League itself.

Perhaps your "proof" threshold needs a rethink?

Clown.

But other that he hasn't done anything!

 

[jay2040]

For telling the truth? I also said he did the right thing to play a 4-4-2 but everyone wants to focus on the negative

Like you are doing! I think everyone had love for Poch however most of us have moved on and recognised the rot.