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Jose Mourinho

How do you feel about Mourinho appointment

  • Excited - silverware here we come baby

    Votes: 666 46.7%
  • Meh - will give him a chance and hope he is successful

    Votes: 468 32.8%
  • Horrified - praying for the day he'll fuck off

    Votes: 292 20.5%

  • Total voters
    1,426

walworthyid

David Ginola
Oct 25, 2004
7,059
10,242
I couldn't agree more, but for many fans just winning isn't enough.
That poster you've quoted not only wants to win, he wants to win whilst playing good proactive football (no passive rubbish), and if that wasn't enough entitlement its also got to be sustainable.
It's not about entitlement at all. In fact the inference is ridiculous. It's about what I want to watch. It's a personal preference. I dont feel entitled as a spurs fan to have success, that is entertaining and sustainable. I feel proud that my club has a tradition of playing good football and also that the fanbase has a tradition of wanting to see that type of football. But we arent entitled to it.

For me, I feel that playing the way that Jose seems to want us to play is not just boring to watch but also has no future.
 

mr ashley

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
3,126
8,524
I’m proud of our history of playing attractive football, with exciting skilful players.
But it has to be rewarded otherwise it’s ultimately pointless.
I’d be happy to sacrifice some of our open, attacking football in order to actually win trophies. And I dont really mind well-executed counter attacking football. Sons wonder goal against Burnley was a counter attack for example.
Fans of teams such as Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal also have high expectations for the quality of their attacking play, but all prioritise winning over expansive football at the end of the day.
 

walworthyid

David Ginola
Oct 25, 2004
7,059
10,242
Was yesterday passive rubbish? it may not have been 1970 Brazil, but we bossed every attacking metric, from possession to territorial superiority to chances created to corners won and passes completed. We definitely were not just so’s king up pressure and waiting for mistakes, and until our fortuitous opened had 4 very good chances to open the scoring,
Was it exciting? Would you be happy watching it week in and week out?

More importantly, would it work against a decent team? We both know that every time we come up against a half decent team that presses, we will sit back, wait for the other team to make a mistake and try to break on them.

So even if you make the argument that it is effective, if uninspiring, football. It isnt! It isnt effective at all because in order to consistently challenge for the league or major trophies, you cant wait for the best teams to make mistakes. Athletico aside, what top team plays like that? Name one consistently successful team in the last decade that has played like that?
 

Young Nasty Man

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
470
1,317
I think its very important to look at the style of play from the teams that are successful right now in Europe: pressing the top, wing backs forward, and a deep lying play maker to dictate play. Obviously this is sweeping generalization, but its what the successful teams are summed up by (and finances).

When looking at the way to suffocate the oxygen from this 'fiery' tactical play, it requires confidence, structure and one of two approaches:

1. Be faster, stronger, and better than that team at pressing and attacking (this is much harder unless you just keep buying the best players in the world).
2. Sit back, park the bus, wait to counter, and capitalize on the opportunity.

I for one don’t mind playing counter attacking football in a world where everyone presses or is lining up in some variation with wing backs forward, 3-4 forwards and a couple of box-to-box midfielders. In fact, I think it’s the only antidote to teams that press and play front foot forward football. When it comes to tactics, I don’t disagree with the way Jose is going about it, and I think it makes sense since it’s a great way to preserve energy against teams that go 100% in the first 65 mins, and allows you to make tactical decisions against a team that is going to come at you one way. Other than Klopp, I don't think any manager of the best in the world have a solid back up plan (I only say back up plan because they have the speed, wing backs, cb, and a goal keeper to opt into not doing a think and waiting for opportunity). I feel like the only teams to squeeze out points out of the bigger clubs are managers that drill parking the bus with slow defensive football (and I can't believe I am going to say this because its the most boring english football I've seen) Pulis and Hodgson.

Lets now break down what Jose requires to obtain success: a strong spine (middle of the park) with quick and flexible arms and legs (wings)
The problem with this is that it requires so much depth in areas that we have none in, and strength in a style that we haven't played with previously. Jose’s teams have always succeeded with a monster DM (an identified need), a physical CB (potentially not a need if Dier progresses), a CAM/goal poaching false 9 (potentially less of a need if a player can step up (this is why he was so excited to play with Dele who could have been his Lampard 2.0)), and a big striker. While this is partially in place, it takes time to adjust. For better or worse, timing right now is, frankly, bizarre. This is a team trying to settle, find its soul (yet again), and also find a groove in a time where that is very difficult. Say what you will, a lot of sports is momentum and making adjustments to the adversity you face mid match and mid season. I am unfortunately very patient since my teams always fall short. I think we still have some time to wait or this will be another case of cutting our nose despite our face. I don't think we are far off and you are starting to see things take shape. If we take the emotion out of it, this guy is a tactical genius and spent a year figuring out what went wrong at United. After his time with Salah and De Bruyne, I have to imagine he is dedicated to getting the most out of Tanguy. Lastly, he took this job knowing that Levy is a prick and that he is going to need to perform in a manner that he hadn't previously. If you ask me, we have to win now, but I do think this is the right guy until the next young successor -- whomever that may be.
 

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
Was it exciting? Would you be happy watching it week in and week out?

More importantly, would it work against a decent team? We both know that every time we come up against a half decent team that presses, we will sit back, wait for the other team to make a mistake and try to break on them.

So even if you make the argument that it is effective, if uninspiring, football. It isnt! It isnt effective at all because in order to consistently challenge for the league or major trophies, you cant wait for the best teams to make mistakes. Athletico aside, what top team plays like that? Name one consistently successful team in the last decade that has played like that?
I think where you and I are diverging is that you seem to think this is a finished product, whereas I believe it is a work in progress.
 

coy-spurs1882

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
3,989
10,442
I’m proud of our history of playing attractive football, with exciting skilful players.
But it has to be rewarded otherwise it’s ultimately pointless.
I’d be happy to sacrifice some of our open, attacking football in order to actually win trophies. And I dont really mind well-executed counter attacking football. Sons wonder goal against Burnley was a counter attack for example.
Fans of teams such as Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal also have high expectations for the quality of their attacking play, but all prioritise winning over expansive football at the end of the day.
actually i enjoy this rather than passing the ball around opponent's box...
 

ItsBoris

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,467
8,604
Was it exciting? Would you be happy watching it week in and week out?

More importantly, would it work against a decent team? We both know that every time we come up against a half decent team that presses, we will sit back, wait for the other team to make a mistake and try to break on them.

So even if you make the argument that it is effective, if uninspiring, football. It isnt! It isnt effective at all because in order to consistently challenge for the league or major trophies, you cant wait for the best teams to make mistakes. Athletico aside, what top team plays like that? Name one consistently successful team in the last decade that has played like that?

Wouldn't that describe how Jose's Real Madrid team played? And what about his Chelsea team that won the league?

I don't think Jose is as defensive a manager as some actually (like Simeone). More like in the really big games he's been ultra pragmatic which I think has created the wrongful impression that he plays like that in every game.
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
5,314
11,048
Was it exciting? Would you be happy watching it week in and week out?

More importantly, would it work against a decent team? We both know that every time we come up against a half decent team that presses, we will sit back, wait for the other team to make a mistake and try to break on them.

So even if you make the argument that it is effective, if uninspiring, football. It isnt! It isnt effective at all because in order to consistently challenge for the league or major trophies, you cant wait for the best teams to make mistakes. Athletico aside, what top team plays like that? Name one consistently successful team in the last decade that has played like that?

Which is funny because,

You say Jose plays like that and he has more successful teams under his belt than most.
 

ItsBoris

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,467
8,604
Disagree. We were actually fewer points out of 5th when he started than we are right now.

Injuries did happen of course but we should have played better than we were.


That's the form table from Jose's 19 games. In it we're 5th, 2 points behind Man Utd and Wolves (both 3rd). So no we're definitely doing better since he came in.

I don't know if you realize but that point you're making about being "fewer points out of fifth" is mathematically deceptive without including which teams were above us then and which are above us now. Objectively speaking, we have the fifth best results since he took over, and we're only 2 behind having the third best results in the league.
 

buckley

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2012
2,595
6,073
the best I have seen us play in my time and the most attractive football was in 1951 also 1960s decade then 1980 to 1987 we then skip to 3 years under Jol then 3 years of Harry finally 3 to 4 years of poch . The one thing these sides had apart from fantastic attacking abilities they all had a stellar defence and a midfield that had at least one if not two defensive midfielders .
I am going to say now something that will upset a lot of Jose naysayers but I think with the players he has he is doing fantastically well indeed without the injuries and with a defensive midfielder we would be comfortably in the top four despite an awful time this season with a fizzled out Poch and myself for one am exited at what he could do when he gets his own players next season albeit free transfers and players in the last year of their contract (therefore cheaper to purchase ) Come on Jose COYS
 

Typical Spurs

Well-Known Member
Feb 10, 2016
990
4,620
Honest to God we've become brainwashed. I'd say for 18-24 months under Poch we played the swashbuckling way many seem to remember. We were fantastic during that period but it wasn't the way for his whole time here.

I used to get so bored with the sideways passing getting so far up the pitch, passing on the edge of their box, out to the full back, cuts inside and passes sideways, start again. We became unbelievably easy to play against.

What Poch couldn't do was adapt. He couldn't change our style before a game, let alone his awful in game management.

I've had moments watching us over the years where it's been great. But it's been moments. We've zero to show for it.

Personally I like having a manager who is proactive and if after 20 minutes it ain't working he makes a sub. At half time he makes subs. Instead of waiting till the 78th minute like Poch did in every game.
 

Stamford

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2015
4,121
19,830
The amount of revisionism going on around Poch is weird. The football under him was great for a period but the last 18 months under him was dreadful to watch.

Mourinho at least will set us up for big games properly and the in game management will be better. How many games last year did we go in needing a result and conceded really early on in the game.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
18,702
46,941
I fully back Jose and think we will do well next season but can't help but feel demotivated for next year seeing how good United look (before the inevitable arrival of Sancho) and Chelsea spending millions in the transfer market, knowing full well that City and Liverpool will 90% both still be at the top next season. As I said before I think we will do well next season and we have an excellent squad but as we lack a few players to really elevate us to that title/ucl challenging level that we all dream of us being at and in the current financial circumstances I can't see those players coming in. I'm basically saying I can't really see a possibility of us getting near the league or UCL title in the next few years and we will probably win a domestic cup/Europa League which would be amazing don't get me wrong but having been so close to the title two years running and reaching a UCL final last year I don't think I personally will be truly happy until we win one of the big two. Bit depressing really but you never know in football I guess.
Yea agree with this mate but I think the covid situation has screwed us a bit as we were building financially with all the events booked in, NFL, concerts etc building our revenue streams and our brand and I think there is money there but covid will have unfortusntly effected that.

I have faith in Jose and the players but I don’t have faith in levy and the player recruitment and I think without signing say 4 players in key areas then yes we will struggle to make top 4 never mind challenge for a title. Otherteams are improving that’s natural so it’s more depressing we didn’t really kick on under poch the season we finished 2nd The first time.

we’ve have a few huge opportunities which we’ve not grasped:
1) the January under redknapp where we were on fire and we signed nelson and Saha on free’s instead of E.g. Gary Cahill and Suarez/hazard
2) the Leicester season, we should’ve got a better back-up for Harry
3) the season after that we were unlucky that conte’s Chelsea we’re amazing but again with 1-2 additions I think we could’ve won it that year as well
4) CL final, better replacement for dembele and kane and we might have got over the line

so for me it’s not too depressing seeing man.u and Chelsea etc improve as clubs with that amount of money always do but the missed opportunities are killer.

Let’s see, as Jose has said our squad doesn’t need much but if we can get him RB, LB, DM, AM, ST then we’ll be as strong as anyone. 3/5 of those and we will be competitive for Top 4 and domestic trophy next season.

COYS
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
18,702
46,941
Absolute tosh, he's not "guaranteeing" anything of the sort.

He's rebuilding the team at the moment from the defence forwards. Rebuilding their solidity and confidence. What he inherited was a disjointed mess with a group of players who had clearly lost faith in the previous project. A team that was in freefall and couldn't buy a win. Let's not kid ourselves, we were in relegation form when he took over.
He managed to get us to turn it around and get back into winning form, but only because we were out scoring opponents, we were still massively porous when attacked. Then he lost our 2 main strikers so we had a porous defensive unit with no attacking threat.

Who the fuck in World Football would be able to churn out entertaining and successful Football with the handicaps he had?

You want success, you build a strong foundation, you start by being hard to beat. Once you have that in place, you work on how you transition into attack and how you dominate the ball. You don't try to do it all at once, even youth coaches understand this. Drill one aspect until it is second nature, then work on the next until ALL are second nature.

JM teams play attractive attacking Football, they always have. It's a fallacy that they don't, based on the few "big ticket" games where he adopts the pragmatic "contain and nullify" approach. You don't set goal scoring records in virtually every league you've managed in by being a boring, counter attacking side, rolling that chestnut out is pure sophistry.
Brilliant post and agree with all of this apart from “JM teams play attractive attacking Football, they always have. It's a fallacy that they don't, based on the few "big ticket" games where he adopts the pragmatic "contain and nullify" approach.”

i think that’s a bit of a stretch mate. Yes his teams score goals and some of the counter attacks are sublime but let’s not kid ourselves his teams have never played attractive attacking football consistently like a pep guadiola or ten Haag team etc. But that’s fine if we play 6/10 decent To watch football Against the ‘winnable’ teams from 8th down and then in the crucial games we play a pragmatic approach and don’t get beat or sneak a win then that’s how you win titles so I’m fine with that.

COYS
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
18,702
46,941
Honest to God we've become brainwashed. I'd say for 18-24 months under Poch we played the swashbuckling way many seem to remember. We were fantastic during that period but it wasn't the way for his whole time here.

I used to get so bored with the sideways passing getting so far up the pitch, passing on the edge of their box, out to the full back, cuts inside and passes sideways, start again. We became unbelievably easy to play against.

What Poch couldn't do was adapt. He couldn't change our style before a game, let alone his awful in game management.

I've had moments watching us over the years where it's been great. But it's been moments. We've zero to show for it.

Personally I like having a manager who is proactive and if after 20 minutes it ain't working he makes a sub. At half time he makes subs. Instead of waiting till the 78th minute like Poch did in every game.
Can’t argue with that
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
18,702
46,941
The amount of revisionism going on around Poch is weird. The football under him was great for a period but the last 18 months under him was dreadful to watch.

Mourinho at least will set us up for big games properly and the in game management will be better. How many games last year did we go in needing a result and conceded really early on in the game.
I think more Spurs fans are slowly coming round to this idea of thinking.

there was an analogy on the podcast that poch was like dating this exotic beautiful fun crazy girl who’d party all night watch the sunset with you have a 3am kebab drunk in her underwear but ultimately you didn’t get any real satisfaction from it whereas Jose is by no means a boring girl, she’ll stand up for herself and keep you on your toes but you can rely on her a bit more to get things done and make good decisions and she has experience and ultimately whilst she might not be as fun and thrilling, she’s the one you’re going to be a success with... fingers crossed.

but yea spot on about poch’s lack of in game management, I loved him as a person and a character and as you say for18-24 months we played some brilliant stuff but there were also a lot of matches where we were veey boring and predictable and erisken or kane has to rescue us, also we always still had that slight defensive fragility and ultimately
I think that + slight lack of investment at the right times and some tactical mistakes where why Poch didn’t win anything for us.

I think if Jose had been our manager for that period of time we’d have won something.
 

DiVaio

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2020
4,173
17,393
Disagree. We were actually fewer points out of 5th when he started than we are right now.

Injuries did happen of course but we should have played better than we were.
Before Jose we had 1.16 points per match
After he came we have 1.63 points per match - which would give us 5th
 
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