Jose Mourinho

[Colonel_Klinck]

TBF if Liverpool had their shooting boots on it would have been all over the 90 mins. Atletico keeper kept them in it. Still what would you rather play? Atletico style or Liverpool style? I know which I'd chose.

 

[Lighty64]

So Liverpool's season hits the rocks in a period where they lose Henderson and Alisson to injury.

But injuries aren't a valid excuse...

Note the style of play from Liverpool's opposition tonight too. Wonder if the Ateltico fans are saying how lucky they were right now? Wonder if Simeone is a 'coward' for his wait and see style. There are multiple ways for winning a football match. Are Spanish journos calling Simeone lucky for his dated passive/reactive style? (Unsurprisingly some of the serial Jose bashers in the media are creaming over Simeone tonight)

Granted Ateltico are superbly coached defensively and have a great spirit and motivation that we can only dream of at this moment in time, but it's certainly food for thought.

DEFENSIVE?

we have conceded 37 goals since he has been with us

 

[SpartanSpur]

Personally I think they are due this run of performances. Those players must be burnt out as they have been outstanding for 2 years now.
Pressing style of football is taxing in the long term. They will suffer a similar fate to us if they don't refresh early.

I have been warning my boss at work about it since Poch's demise and Klopps new contract. In true Liverpool fan fashion he's brushed it off. Dortmund fell to bits in his last season there (albeit recovering towards the end).

Klopp is going to have to be very smart in how he evolves the team in the next two seasons. That said they seem to have a very strong executive setup there so they may well achieve it.

For all their success I do think they have been on a bit of a freak run that they'll struggle to replicate. I don't think they are the most impressive team in PL history to my eyes. I'd put some of Fergie's teams, early Wenger Arsenal and Pep's City above them, possibly Jose's first Chelsea side also.

 

[SpartanSpur]

DEFENSIVE?

we have conceded 37 goals since he has been with us

Well done on completely missing the point! It's about criticisms over philosophies and styles of play. Tonight was proof that when done right, the low block counter can still make a difference at the top end of the game (as we found out painfully during some the biggest games of Poch's tenure).
Simeone is branded a genius, Jose a dinosaur. I just wanted to point out the hypocrisy of it.

I think everyone on this forum is well aware of how terrible we have been defensively, individually and collectively, for the last 18 months or so. Jose certainly hasn't been able to get a tune out of this defence so far, that's for sure, no arguments there.

With a few tweaks and a pre-season he may well be able to. I certainly wouldn't want to watch that style every week though!

 

[fedupyid]

Liverpool are nothing like us. Simeone is nothing like Mourinho. Simeone may not have the trophies that Mourinho has but he 100 times the manager. He has stayed at Atletico for years and constantly rebuilt his team to compete. Mourinho builds a team for one season. The fact is Mourinho’s teams have never been teams they have always been about the individual. His Porto team was built on Deco’s brilliance. His Chelsea and Madrid teams had numerous super stars in them. Even his Inter team was built around Sneider and Eto.

 

[Wearegoingtowintheleague]

So Jose’s tactics are meant to be outdated but I’ve just seen a team from Madrid knock out (apparently) the best team in the world by parking the bus over two legs.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that playing to hit a team on the break is not a good tactic to use at times, especially away against a team better than you.

What most are complaining about it parking the bus and trying to play on the break against everyone, even worse teams than us, like bottom of the table Norwich in an FA Cup game.

 

[Lighty64]

Well done on completely missing the point! It's about criticisms over philosophies and styles of play. Tonight was proof that when done right, the low block counter can still make a difference at the top end of the game (as we found out painfully during some the biggest games of Poch's tenure).
Simeone is branded a genius, Jose a dinosaur. I just wanted to point out the hypocrisy of it.

I think everyone on this forum is well aware of how terrible we have been defensively, individually and collectively, for the last 18 months or so. Jose certainly hasn't been able to get a tune out of this defence so far, that's for sure, no arguments there.

With a few tweaks and a pre-season he may well be able to. I certainly wouldn't want to watch that style every week though!

well if he is with us next season, I hope he does sort the defence out, but the style we are playing even though we haven't got a striker is what he uses. he does it to counter the midfield press

 

[Shadydan]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that playing to hit a team on the break is not a good tactic to use at times, especially away against a team better than you.

What most are complaining about it parking the bus and trying to play on the break against everyone, even worse teams than us, like bottom of the table Norwich in an FA Cup game.

You don't watch Atletico that much do you.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

TBF if Liverpool had their shooting boots on it would have been all over the 90 mins. Atletico keeper kept them in it. Still what would you rather play? Atletico style or Liverpool style? I know which I'd chose.

Yeah, Spurs have multiple games like this both under Poch and Mourinho this season that this is the case - footballs a bitch.

 

[Dougal]

5 years vs 4 months.
This shouldn't need explaining, but that's why.

We weren’t rubbish for 5 years. Quite the opposite. Even at Poch’s worst we reached a champions league final and got top 4. That was considered under performing but he squeezed every last drop out that team. As far as I’m concerned he should have been given a clean slate at the start of this season much like Mourinho is now to build again.

 

[spurs-r-us]

I love how the consensus three months ago was that Poch was behaving like a twat to the press, was undermining the squad and Levy was justified in sacking him. Now that Mourinho is behaving like a twat to the press and undermining the squad, Levy should have backed Poch further and never got rid.

Maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle? Poch and the squad lost their fire, and even a serial winner like Mourinho who specialises in getting an extra drop out of older players can't do much through a mixture of the squad being proper fucked and he himself losing a bit of the old magic.

Stop pretending like everything was gravy under Poch. We were utter shite, Moura hat trick vs Ajax and VAR shithousery vs City aside, for the last six months of his tenure. Remember how we lost every away game for months? Poch built an incredible squad by trusting in youth and making shrewd signings. When push came to shove, every time that squad got close to winning something meaningful they absolutely lost the plot. Is anyone ok with our turgid football at the moment because we have fond memories of finishing second, making a CL final and losing in the FA Cup semis every year?

Whether Poch was the right man to rebuild the squad (and he did have a lot more misses than hits by the end, Tanguy probably included) is secondary to the fact that Levy gambled on a winner and most of us backed him until we saw how broke this squad (and maybe Mourinho himself) is.

 

[spurs-r-us]

he’s on a different level

Why? His Atleti team is sixth in La Liga right now.

In terms of success over the past 15 years, the only manager better than Mourinho has been Guardiola.

 

[spurs-r-us]

I have been warning my boss at work about it since Poch's demise and Klopps new contract. In true Liverpool fan fashion he's brushed it off. Dortmund fell to bits in his last season there (albeit recovering towards the end).

Klopp is going to have to be very smart in how he evolves the team in the next two seasons. That said they seem to have a very strong executive setup there so they may well achieve it.

For all their success I do think they have been on a bit of a freak run that they'll struggle to replicate. I don't think they are the most impressive team in PL history to my eyes. I'd put some of Fergie's teams, early Wenger Arsenal and Pep's City above them, possibly Jose's first Chelsea side also.

They're only as impressive as their results once hindsight hits. If they'd avoided this small collapse, they would probably be considered the best in the PL era. As things stand, they rely far too much on a group of about 13 first teamers and don't really get enough out of the other 6 or 7 options when more than a couple at a time have to play.

Even with VVD, their defence is leaky as a sieve without Allisson.

 

[doctor stefan Freud]

Why? His Atleti team is sixth in La Liga right now.

In terms of success over the past 15 years, the only manager better than Mourinho has been Guardiola.

Different level in how he operates, not in terms of trophy haul.

He’s won seven trophies with Athletico and brought them much needed stability. There’s a blueprint to how they play based on specific tactical acumen, organisation and hard work. He’s not, generally speaking, alienated his players or fan base and achieving these results in the context of a league that is financially skewed to favour Real and Barcelona.

Its easy and lazy to say they’re the same because both managers like to play counterattacking football- you could apply that logic to most managers that set up with a high press these days but that would be wrong. What I’m pointing out is that immediately after the Athletico result last night people started posting that those critical of Mourinho must somehow be wrong because Simeone has beaten the current Champions League holders with counterattacking tactics, using the result and performance as a stick to beat anyone critical of Mourinho. But to do that is disingenuous or ignorant because they’re operate on different levels in all sorts of nuanced ways

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Different level in how he operates, not in terms of trophy haul.

He’s won seven trophies with Athletico and brought them much needed stability. There’s a blueprint to how they play based on specific tactical acumen, organisation and hard work. He’s not, generally speaking, alienated his players or fan base and achieving these results in the context of a league that is financially skewed to favour Real and Barcelona.

Its easy and lazy to say they’re the same because both managers like to play counterattacking football- you could apply that logic to most managers that set up with a high press these days but that would be wrong. What I’m pointing out is that immediately after the Athletico result last night people started posting that those critical of Mourinho must somehow be wrong because Simeone has beaten the current Champions League holders with counterattacking tactics, using the result and performance as a stick to beat anyone critical of Mourinho. But to do that is disingenuous or ignorant because they’re operate on different levels in all sorts of nuanced ways

Yeah, but if we'd taken the 4 or 5 chances that we had made like Madrid made last night we'd have beaten Liverpool two months ago. He set us up to beat Liverpool and we could have beaten them, in exactly the same manner.

 

[spurs-r-us]

Even at Poch’s worst we reached a champions league final and got top 4. That was considered under performing but he squeezed every last drop out that team.

Can't agree with this. We were the best side in England between about 2015-2018 in terms of cumulative points. We kept almost getting there. History has shown that we didn't have the winning mentality required to win the PL/FA Cup when we were one of the favourites every year for three seasons.

 

[Dougal]

Can't agree with this. We were the best side in England between about 2015-2018 in terms of cumulative points. We kept almost getting there. History has shown that we didn't have the winning mentality required to win the PL/FA Cup when we were one of the favourites every year for three seasons.

Favourites? At the start of every season the pundits kept doubting we’d make top 4 again! We were spending bugger all while other clubs splashed out tens and hundreds of millions and every season we hung in there near the summit until finally they started to take us seriously for the first time in my lifetime. All that was missing was the final step. And yet I remember the times of Poch, Redknapp and Jol with more fondness than those of Ramos and Graham, our most recent trophy winning managers. As good as a cup is, consistency over a sustained period can make the weekly arrival at work on a Monday morning make you feel like a winner. How proud were you of Spurs under Poch? It’s what he promised to do when he arrived. Yes, the last full year was a huge step backwards (while also containing some of the greatest moments I may ever have as a Spurs fan), but he acknowledged the problems and was attempting to rectify them. But Levy pulled the rug from under him.

 

[olliec]

Mourinho's record after 2/3 of this season will be grim. It's already bad enough without contemplating fewer than a couple of wins in the last 9 games, possibly none at all. These cup exits are incredibly lame. This one was not a contest and the loss to Norwich was supposedly the type of thing that wouldn't happen under a "serial winner". He really needs to change the tune in these weeks ahead because it could be hard to recover from it.

There are all sorts of issues, including bad luck, but he hasn't been very dynamic, hasn't made us hard to beat, and has us standing off every side we meet. We have an inferiority complex now that makes us look beaten before kick off.

I'll be amazed if he's not given the summer and the start of next season. But it'll need a 180 degree turn around to race out of the blocks in August. My fear is he'll dig us deeper into the mire in that time. And only the signing of Bergwijn, who has been more than decent, offers some antidote to that dread.

How can he make us hard to beat when individual players keep making errors? The manager can only do so much tactically but it’s upto the players if they are going to make stupid mistakes which they have been. Can we stop the mourinho bashing and just look at the state of the squad. Any manager that comes in wouldn’t do any better. A lot of these players are good enough but take a few clogs out of the machine and it doesn’t work. Simple as that.

 

[Dougal]

How can he make us hard to beat when individual players keep making errors? The manager can only do so much tactically but it’s upto the players if they are going to make stupid mistakes which they have been. Can we stop the mourinho bashing and just look at the state of the squad. Any manager that comes in wouldn’t do any better. A lot of these players are good enough but take a few clogs out of the machine and it doesn’t work. Simple as that.

When Mourinho decides to bash the players he’s lost any right to not be bashed himself. It’s his weapon of choice.

 

[olliec]

When Mourinho decides to bash the players he’s lost any right to not be bashed himself. It’s his weapon of choice.

He bashed one player who hasn’t exactly set the world alight and is incredibly lazy as well.