Manager watch: Jose Mourinho

How do you feel about Mourinho appointment

  • Excited - silverware here we come baby

    Votes: 639 55.5%
  • Meh - will give him a chance and hope he is successful

    Votes: 425 36.9%
  • Horrified - praying for the day he'll fuck off

    Votes: 88 7.6%

  • Total voters
    1,152

Wheeler Dealer

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Jul 29, 2011
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4,340
Really?

The football was far worse under Sherwood, AVB, Santini, and Graham.

Jeez talk about hyperbole.
I disagree that current football is worse than under the aforementioned four. Whilst we struggled at times, there was at least one or two stand out world class players in those teams that entertained you. - Ginola, Bale, and Modric come to mind.
 

EZSpur

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869
I actually think it’s the exact opposite and that it’s his ego that will keep him at the club.

Being the first manager in over 12 years to win us a trophy is something that would appeal to his ego. As would the opportunity to go down in club and Premiership history to turn us into title winners.
That's a good point - i'll be honest i didn't think about it that way.

I guess it will come down to where his ego plays a bigger part - wanting to be the first manager win us a trophy in 12 years - OR - not wanting to the manager that lost our run of qualifying for Europe.

Whatever happens, i just don't want this to be the club he COULDN'T turn around!!
 

Kiedis

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Aug 4, 2013
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2,698
Here is the thing.
Vertonghen played as a wing back. So yes, you *can* use Vertonghen as a CB. That fact does not mean that he *was* a cb. Then we moved to Tanganga, who largely played as RB. Then we move to Alderweireld, who played as a CB but supporting Vertonghen out on the left. Then we move to Sanchez who was a traditional CB. Then finally we have Dier who played as CB initially. So as we can see, the defence wasn't 5 CB, but one WB, one FB, two pure CBs and one CB partially acting as FB give the WB space. The defence, as much as became a 5 CB hyperbole before the game started, was a actually a fluid and nuanced team part.
But no of course, if we just write 5 CBs often enough, we'll have another stick to beat our manager with, and that just feels so good.
For me the bigger picture in terms of his tactics is that they will so often be very heavily based upon how we can negate the strenghts of the opposition and not how we can expose their weaknesses. What we were thinking the most about was very obviously how hinder Burnley from spamming their crosses and also be equipped with 3v 2 in the middle to deal with those crosses that would find their way in anyways, and not how we could make Burnleys shortcomings in their build up play work against them.

It leads to a defensive and reactive mindset, and I think that if he's really serious about instilling a proactive playing style, it doesn't help to have every other or third game be about trying to nullify the opposition and grab the odd goal.

Totally get your point though. A lot of angry shouting and cherrypicking in all directions at the moment.
 

Everlasting Seconds

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For me the bigger picture in terms of his tactics is that they will so often be very heavily based upon how we can negate the strenghts of the opposition and not how we can expose their weaknesses. What we were thinking the most about was very obviously how hinder Burnley from spamming their crosses and also be equipped with 3v 2 in the middle to deal with those crosses that would find their way in anyways, and not how we could make Burnleys shortcomings in their build up play work against them.

It leads to a defensive and reactive mindset, and I think that if he's really serious about instilling a proactive playing style, it doesn't help to have every other or third game be about trying to nullify the opposition and grab the odd goal.

Totally get your point though. A lot of angry shouting and cherrypicking in all directions at the moment.
Of course I don't love the footie these days and I'm not over the moon with the results.
I just dislike even more the extreme hyperboles that are invented out of willingly holding misconceptions, in a time when there are plenty of reasons for why it's not a fun period and the club needs sound support the most.
 
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dudu

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Jan 28, 2011
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3,458
I disagree that current football is worse than under the aforementioned four. Whilst we struggled at times, there was at least one or two stand out world class players in those teams that entertained you. - Ginola, Bale, and Modric come to mind.
We still have Kane.

You watched Son score goal of the season under Jose.
 

allatsea

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Aug 31, 2012
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5,177
Can anyone explain to me then why we so rubbish against Chelsea at home. Son and Kane both played we had only Lloris out and deserved to lose.

Mourinho’s Spurs was completely outplayed by Chelsea. Then we rubbish over the rest of the Christmas period. We have been playing the worst football I have ever seen after his new manager bump in points. The fact is I am ignoring all our performances before Wolves they do not represent Mourinho’s style of football
Relentless negativity devoid of facts.
 

Stamford

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Sep 15, 2015
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1,005
I disagree that current football is worse than under the aforementioned four. Whilst we struggled at times, there was at least one or two stand out world class players in those teams that entertained you. - Ginola, Bale, and Modric come to mind.
Nothing can compare to the sherwood period in terms of football played and the mood around the place. This doesn't even come close
 

pelayo59

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Jun 28, 2019
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1,040
Christ, what an predictable answer. Replay that game 100 times and we loose 90 of them. We were extremely lucky coming out of that with the three points.
Replay 100 times United vs City and of 90 United isn't given an incorrect free kick, Ederson is saving Martial shot and not passing to McTominay
 

dudu

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Nothing can compare to the sherwood period in terms of football played and the mood around the place. This doesn't even come close
I've said it 3 or four times. Our beloved spurs were boo'd off the pitch in Nov of 2014 after 4 home losses out of 5, 4 months in to Pochs reign.

No one is saying we will improve or reach the Poch level of footie. But maybe, just maybe 4 months is too soon for everyone to be crying into their cereal.

 
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HodisGawd

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Oct 3, 2005
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549
These clubs will continue to win things that won't change do you suddenly think Madrid or Barcelona are going to be overtaken by getafe or Bilbao.
And why should we sneer at the league cup by calling it tinpot this is coming from a club that can't win an argument in an empty room.
Personally I would have been more than happy with winning that instead of finishing just above mid table which is beckoning for us maybe our ambition is tinpot.
I didn't ask about Barca or Real. I was talking about City - a team that have, as far as FFP is concerned cheated.

You are switching your point to distract from the failings of your argument.

We are not trying to win the tin pot. Nobody is, not even City. It's the league and the Champs that matter.

City won it while being guilty of financial doping.

The anti-Levy argument is basically "why can't we just cheat like City". Well, you see what happens, that's why.
 

brasil_spur

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In Klopp's first season they reached two cup finals, won at Stamford Bridge and the Etihad whilst dominating the games playing brilliant attacking football, knocked their main rivals out of Europe and beat a strong Dortmund side 5-4 on aggregate in the last minute. If Mourinho had those sorts of success stories to his name amongst the inconsistency then I'd be more than happy to give him benefit of the doubt.
But then Klopp came to a team that already had strong foundations. 4 seasons later and out of the squad he inherited back then he still has the following players:

Henderson, Firmino, Milner, Gomez, Lallana, Origi. So that's 4 first teamers and 2 bench players, inducing both the current Captain and Vice-Captain of the club.

If you look at our current squad who would you call out from the team as first teamers and key squad players in 4 seasons time? For me it would be Kane, Son and maybe Lo Celso.

Add onto this that in his 15/16 squad Klopp had 5 strikers on his books in Firmino, Benteke, Sturridge, Origi and Ings.

He also inherited a better midfield than we have right now, with Countinho, Henderson, Milner and Lalana/Lucas, Can and a defence which was at least on par with us.

IMO you can't compare the squads.

However Liverpool finished 8th that season, and whilst i agree they had some good games under their belt and reached two finals, i think their overall achievement is unlikely to be very much better than what we will have achieved under Jose this season, yet for me Klopp had better foundations to work with than Jose does right now.
 

Hakkz

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For me the bigger picture in terms of his tactics is that they will so often be very heavily based upon how we can negate the strenghts of the opposition and not how we can expose their weaknesses. What we were thinking the most about was very obviously how hinder Burnley from spamming their crosses and also be equipped with 3v 2 in the middle to deal with those crosses that would find their way in anyways, and not how we could make Burnleys shortcomings in their build up play work against them.

It leads to a defensive and reactive mindset, and I think that if he's really serious about instilling a proactive playing style, it doesn't help to have every other or third game be about trying to nullify the opposition and grab the odd goal.

Totally get your point though. A lot of angry shouting and cherrypicking in all directions at the moment.
Good points imo.
 

Chirpystheman

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Jan 22, 2019
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121
Christ, what an predictable answer. Replay that game 100 times and we loose 90 of them. We were extremely lucky coming out of that with the three points.
You can say that about most games. Even burnley at the weekend if lamela used his right foot we could have been 1-0 up after 1min. Replay the norwich game last week we would have won that plenty of times. If Robertson, Capoue; Sterling, Cantwell, Hendrick had all been sent off in various league games, results might have been very different. At the end of the day all that matters is the results currently. So however we get them is the important factor.
 

idontgetit

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Aug 21, 2011
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7,873
I said that the tactical problem under Pochettino for the last year was that he built a side on the basis of a rock solid back four and keeper that could defend aggressively (e.g higher up the pitch). All of the fluid attacking play depended on that solid base.

Over the years that back four became less aggressive with Walker leaving, Rose losing form and getting injured and both Alderweireld and Vertonghen losing a yard of pace. Lloris as well dipped form, has been less likely to play the sweeper role and then got badly injured. We just simply do not have a top 4 defence and haven't for two seasons.

We're still trying to play the same way though and it doesn't work and won't work. We should have accepted that we're not going to be solid defensively and instead played to our strengths. Lots of very creative midfielders who can score goals and a world class front man. Set up to play aggressive, creative football and accept we're going to concede a few. Gamble on us being able to outscore pretty much everyone except the top 2 or 3 clubs and get enough points to hold a Champions League spot. Maybe win a cup in the process. Then complete the badly needed rebuild over the summer with an actual plan.

Instead of taking that gamble and going for it all guns blazing we're dying a death of a thousand cuts. The reason Mourinho had a patch of success early doors is that he directed us to be more direct and get the ball up there rather than faffing about. We were more aggressive and it paid off, at least for a while. It didn't carry on because it was only the very most basic of attacking strategies and it needed developing a lot further.
 

homer hotspur

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We still have Kane.

You watched Son score goal of the season under Jose.
That's the other issue. How will ,in particular, Kane and Son react to no CL football and how will they and the club react to the inevitable huge offers for them?
More generally, Jose will need most of the squad behind him and on board with his kind of tactics and player management for things to succeed. I'm not totally sure he is going to get that support.
 

Chirpystheman

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In Klopp's first season they reached two cup finals, won at Stamford Bridge and the Etihad whilst dominating the games playing brilliant attacking football, knocked their main rivals out of Europe and beat a strong Dortmund side 5-4 on aggregate in the last minute. If Mourinho had those sorts of success stories to his name amongst the inconsistency then I'd be more than happy to give him benefit of the doubt.
How many of those finals did they actually win. They finished 8th in the league. Sorry that's not a success when a year or so earlier they were close to winning the league. Sorry winning some one off games and finishing 8th. If that's how you measure success you are easily pleased and your barometer is way off.
 

Ionman34

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In Klopp's first season they reached two cup finals, won at Stamford Bridge and the Etihad whilst dominating the games playing brilliant attacking football, knocked their main rivals out of Europe and beat a strong Dortmund side 5-4 on aggregate in the last minute. If Mourinho had those sorts of success stories to his name amongst the inconsistency then I'd be more than happy to give him benefit of the doubt.
How many of his first choice players was Klopp missing?
 

dudu

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That's the other issue. How will ,in particular, Kane and Son react to no CL football and how will they and the club react to the inevitable huge offers for them?
More generally, Jose will need most of the squad behind him and on board with his kind of tactics and player management for things to succeed. I'm not totally sure he is going to get that support.
I think they will give it a season.

Let's be real about where we were when Jose came in. CL was not looking likely then either.

Now, do we think Kane and Son are going to feel more comfortable about getting back into the CL with a Manger of Jose's ilk or an up and coming, doing all the right things at their current club but still relatively unproven in world football?
 

brasil_spur

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I said that the tactical problem under Pochettino for the last year was that he built a side on the basis of a rock solid back four and keeper that could defend aggressively (e.g higher up the pitch). All of the fluid attacking play depended on that solid base.

Over the years that back four became less aggressive with Walker leaving, Rose losing form and getting injured and both Alderweireld and Vertonghen losing a yard of pace. Lloris as well dipped form, has been less likely to play the sweeper role and then got badly injured. We just simply do not have a top 4 defence and haven't for two seasons.

We're still trying to play the same way though and it doesn't work and won't work. We should have accepted that we're not going to be solid defensively and instead played to our strengths. Lots of very creative midfielders who can score goals and a world class front man. Set up to play aggressive, creative football and accept we're going to concede a few. Gamble on us being able to outscore pretty much everyone except the top 2 or 3 clubs and get enough points to hold a Champions League spot. Maybe win a cup in the process. Then complete the badly needed rebuild over the summer with an actual plan.

Instead of taking that gamble and going for it all guns blazing we're dying a death of a thousand cuts. The reason Mourinho had a patch of success early doors is that he directed us to be more direct and get the ball up there rather than faffing about. We were more aggressive and it paid off, at least for a while. It didn't carry on because it was only the very most basic of attacking strategies and it needed developing a lot further.
I agree with this, and for me is why we need a large scale rebuild in defence in the summer. I mean the whole squad has issues and not replacing Llorente with a backup striker in the summer or January was stupid. But for me i feel we have enough creativity in the team to score goals (assuming we have a striker) under Mourinho. What we really don't have, and what JM has been famous for in his career as a manager is a strong defence.

IMO it's what plagued his time at Utd too, a team that previously was very strong in defence (going back a few years here) had Smalling and Jones in the heart of their defence.

Personally for the rebuild at the back is vital for us to stand a chance under a JM regime.
 
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