Manager watch: Jose Mourinho

How do you feel about Mourinho appointment

  • Excited - silverware here we come baby

    Votes: 632 55.8%
  • Meh - will give him a chance and hope he is successful

    Votes: 419 37.0%
  • Horrified - praying for the day he'll fuck off

    Votes: 81 7.2%

  • Total voters
    1,132

BringBack_leGin

Audere est facere
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Jul 28, 2004
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21,571
I do agree with this to extent. However, speaking to Man U and Chelsea supporting friends they confirmed to me that we are witnessing the beginnings of 'Jose-ball'. As fans you gloss over the turgid style when the silverware arrives and you are winning matches but once the losses start there is nothing to fall back on.

He is trying to turn us from a progressive, front-foot, high pressing team that look to dominate possession (peak Poch) . To a back-foot, passive and reactive, counter-attacking team. It can work if you have a rock-solid, inpenetrable defence - like he had at Inter and Chelsea. But when your defence are porous or uncertain, then alot of time you start with a disadvantage and with the wrong mentality(as we saw from his time at Man U).

I've never been a fan of his style of football but realise he still needs to time to properly stamp his philosophy on the team. I just hope I don't die of boredom before we pick up our first piece of silverware under him.
I can’t say that the football has been of a high quality, but I don’t think it’s lacked in entertainment value either. Most of the goals we’ve scored under Mourinho have been well constructed, quick moves. While I never want to see us dominated for possession, I also don’t believe dominating possession necessarily leads to attractive football, and quite often if the opposition ate organised and don’t make mistakes (see Newcastle earlier this season) it just means we never get the ball into the opposition area. The football might not be free flowing, but I can’t say I’ve left any José match feeling like I’d been shortchanged on my entrance fee. The City match, in fact, is probably as exhilarating as I’ve experienced at home since we left the Lane.

As for Jose ball, I never found his initial Chelsea side boring. Bit cynical in parts but they attacked with pace, they scored a lot of goals and they had very entertaining players. At Utd, Jose has won 2/3 of their post Ferguson trophies and given Utd their highest post Ferguson league finish. I think that says all we need to know about the state of the club and the grandeur of the task at hand.
 

wrd

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Aug 22, 2014
Messages
6,039
No, not meant to feel sarcastic, as keen to understand how you view our tactics, because I'm struggling to get a real feel of where we are trying to go. Interested to get others views that's all
Ah okay, apologies.

First of I'd say I was a huge fan of the Real Madrid team that Jose managed, they had an incredible counter attacking team which scored a ridiculous amount.

I think the way we're trying to set up at the moment is to have a system where out of possession we are in a 4-5-1 and in possession we want to have 5 players behind the ball and 5 players in-front of it in the attacking third. We're going at it differently to how Liverpool achieve this who push both fullbacks up and look like this:

Matip Van Dijk
Hendo Fabinho Wijnaldum

Trent Salah Firmino Mane Robertson

And city go for inside FB's but also have the 5-5

Otamendi Laporte
Walker Fernandinho Zinchenko

KDB Silva
Mahrez Aguero Sterling

So we're going trying to achieve the same thing but by having a half and half of Liv/city set up by having the one fullback pushed up, I think what Jose initially wanted with our set up was this:

Sanchez Alder Davies
Lo Celso Ndombele

Aurier Moura Kane Dele Son

So we're trying to get the same set up which is based on stopping teams from being able to counter you with a base from behind and overloading the box and creating width in the final third which I'm a fan of. beyond that I'm a little concerned with just how much we're using Alderweireld to ping balls long, now and then I think it's great but we need to do a better job of keeping possession and working through the middle. The problem I see is that right now we don't have a player to hold the ball up and allow our 2 wingers to play off of which we saw Dele do last night and we know that Kane can do.

Now I'm not sure at this point whether we're purposefully not controlling the play in the middle or it's a case of that against City we were simply up against the better team and against Southampton we didn't have the right personnel and had to play a different formation to compensate. My opinion is that the current style isn't intentional and that our plans are to build a midfield which can dictate the play more but also set up to have the devastating counter attacks that we saw when Jose was at Madrid and Inter and that we've seen Liverpool set up like more recently. I think we will see the best of both worlds where we won't keep possession for possession sake similar to how Spain set up but we also won't keep seeing the same current style of play that we have.

Clearly Jose needs time and the personnel available to set up what he wants but I think we're at an interesting dilemma where he's going to have been impressed with Winks and may consider wanting a trio of Winks/Lo Celso/Ndombele but conversely he loves having his third midfielder be a 8/10 hybrid where they're not afforded the luxury of a 10 in terms of workload and expects them to put in a shift defensively. Dele was seemingly the choice for that but now I wonder whether he will prefer the midfield 3 I mentioned and that makes you wonder where Dele fits if he decides to go with the Bergwijn/Kane/Son set up which suits perfectly his old set ups. Right now I'd for sure be playing Dele in the false 9 whilst Kane is absent.

So right now my opinion is that what we're seeing performance wise isn't great but this isn't going to be the style for long, I think Jose's detractors focus on the style during the bad times and fail to take into account when it's at it's peak. I think we will end up playing through midfield a lot more than people expect and I think we will enjoy the velocity of how we move the ball from back to front where as before we were too laboured with the ball and spent far too much time going sideways as our performances under Poch began to hit the downward trend. If people think we're simply going to be a long ball counter team who gives up possession under Jose then they're going to be pleasantly surprised once we're in full swing in my opinion.

I'm not necessarily enjoying the performances at the moment but I can see the bigger picture and understand the necessity as we're in a transitional phase over the next 6 months, I'd say us fans would do well to probably just enjoy the results and also the individual players develop such as Lo Celso and Tanganga but also seeing our midfield slowly begin to take shape as people begin to get defined responsibilities such as Winks and how they take to those roles and kick on. I think there's still a lot to enjoy despite the performances and that that will improve come next season.
 

Japhet

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Aug 30, 2010
Messages
10,352
Klopp and Guardiola have been pressing for years, and they have yet to be worked out.... Maybe City have to some degree, but the dippers have gone from strength to strength. be interesting to see how they approach next season
City were super confident last season and Liverpool are this time. City look quite jittery now and Liverpool might go the same way sooner than we might think. We looked unstoppable one minute and then it all went south overnight. It seems quite common when opponents expect to lose and then after a few poor results they think they're in with a shout and don't capitulate subconciously before kick off.
 

buckley

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Sep 15, 2012
Messages
1,448
I find Mourhino's honesty refreshing and rare for premier league managers . I don't want someone telling me were good when we clearly are not but what can't be denied is this team of ours has a lot of grit and never say die not always said about spurs sides.
 

Frozen_Waffles

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Jan 26, 2005
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1,623
We must be watching different conferences. I'll give you a link to the ones that I watch if you like as he definitely doesn't moan in them.
The ones about var and recently the no options up top moan and injury issues. He seems less happy as time goes by.

I am starting to see a change towards the Manchester United jose
 

Metalhead

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Nov 24, 2013
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15,562
The ones about var and recently the no options up top moan and injury issues. He seems less happy as time goes by.

I am starting to see a change towards the Manchester United jose
I don't see that at all. No manager will feel happy about everything going on but he seems pretty positive to me - I've watched 99% of his pre and post match conferences and I see no issue.
 

Hercules

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Jul 23, 2014
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3,853
I see many are being so positive about him, and quite a few big enough to admit ‘it is working’. We are seven games unbeaten, and fifth, touching distance of top four, and still in FA cup/CL. A side bereft of major long term injuries, and more playing not fully fit.

I said it already, that many will be surprised by the new approach he developed whilst out the game. I think we are going to be very aggressive offensively and defensively, with super pace 2/3’s of the pitch. Imagine once he has the players he wants? Exciting times. Before you rate ‘optimistic’. When he took over and the mess we were in, there is no way any of us could imagine we would be in the position we are with all the handicaps.
 

Colonel Dax

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Jul 24, 2008
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2,327
The ones about var and recently the no options up top moan and injury issues. He seems less happy as time goes by.

I am starting to see a change towards the Manchester United jose
Harsh IMO. Jose always grumbles a bit in media conferences. He was doing it at Madrid when they were top of the league and scoring for fun. It’s his way of taking the pressure off the team. And anyway he’s right - injuries have screwed us this season.

Man Utd has been a toxic cesspool ever since Fergie retired and Mourinho still managed 2nd in the league in his first season despite having an average, unbalanced squad. I wouldn’t use his time at Utd as a guide to how he’s going to do here.
 

brendanb50

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Jul 21, 2005
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3,912
I see many are being so positive about him, and quite a few big enough to admit ‘it is working’. We are seven games unbeaten, and fifth, touching distance of top four, and still in FA cup/CL. A side bereft of major long term injuries, and more playing not fully fit.

I said it already, that many will be surprised by the new approach he developed whilst out the game. I think we are going to be very aggressive offensively and defensively, with super pace 2/3’s of the pitch. Imagine once he has the players he wants? Exciting times. Before you rate ‘optimistic’. When he took over and the mess we were in, there is no way any of us could imagine we would be in the position we are with all the handicaps.


Bolded a key part there for me but good post.

For me JM is constrained by some of our options. It's going to lead to some inconsistent quality as well as some less exciting tactics being deployed, i won't judge him on how we're doing just now and as you said things are looking up. We're still a way away from the finished article but we're making progress.
 

fecka

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Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
874
Klopp and Guardiola have been pressing for years, and they have yet to be worked out.... Maybe City have to some degree, but the dippers have gone from strength to strength. be interesting to see how they approach next season
The difference between us, Guardiola and Klopps teams are that the latter two have press resistant players. After two years every manager in the world realized that you just have to press us back and we'll concede a lot of possession and easy chances.

Mou has been ironing that out game by game and while I still think we lack shape and organization I can see a clear improvement from where we were in October.
 

AnotherSpursFan

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Joined
Dec 4, 2006
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1,027
Are people seriously complaining about us having a lack of possession against Man City? One of the most expensively assembled and successful possession/pressing teams of all times, coached by the guy who’s MO is constant pressure and possession.

Do people really expect us to dominate them? What fucking planet are some of you lot on?
these are people who slated Edgar Davids for making foward passes.

They like stats and think 80% possesion based on a successful passing rate of 90% of sideways backways is the way to go and best represent the club motto of To Dare is To Do.

In my humble opinion, i think they are missing the point, To Dare is To Do comes in many form.

Having a plan and executing it to perfection is To Dare is To Do
Not sccumbing to media gibberishand and pressure is To Dare is To Do
Winning ugly is To Dare is To Do

I rather we have 20% possesion in the opponents half than 80% of stactic dross in front of Lloris every single time.

Mourinho is To Dare is To Do and we are going to Win Win Win
 

bbunc

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May 11, 2019
Messages
239
I see many are being so positive about him, and quite a few big enough to admit ‘it is working’. We are seven games unbeaten, and fifth, touching distance of top four, and still in FA cup/CL. A side bereft of major long term injuries, and more playing not fully fit.

I said it already, that many will be surprised by the new approach he developed whilst out the game. I think we are going to be very aggressive offensively and defensively, with super pace 2/3’s of the pitch. Imagine once he has the players he wants? Exciting times. Before you rate ‘optimistic’. When he took over and the mess we were in, there is no way any of us could imagine we would be in the position we are with all the handicaps.
We’ve put some decent results up for sure and he’s in a really tough spot with some of our squad makeup/injuries right now.

Agree this could look a lot different once we can plug some holes with the types of players we want, but how does that square with the $ available to do so? Seems we were pretty skint by end of the winter window (understandable since we’ve spent almost 150M net between summer/winter/firing managers).

Talk of Eze and Aarons for the summer - that’s probably 50-60M alone. Desperately need a mobile DM (Zakaria or Zakaria like substance) is another 40-50M. Still likely some need at CB and backup striker which will both be costly. Easily another 150M+ of “needs” and not a lot of options to raise huge $ by selling (unless we’re going to move one of Dele/Kane/Son, which would create its own problems).
 

TheCheeseRoom

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May 14, 2019
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78
I also sense that Mourinho is currently hamstrung by the fitness of the squad.

I'm not sure what happened over the summer but our squad appears to lack stamina across the board.
 

Japhet

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Aug 30, 2010
Messages
10,352
I find Mourhino's honesty refreshing and rare for premier league managers . I don't want someone telling me were good when we clearly are not but what can't be denied is this team of ours has a lot of grit and never say die not always said about spurs sides.
A lot of the 'grit and never say die' comes from players that many on here like to sound off about, such as Winks, Moura, Aurier and Dier.
 

Wheeler Dealer

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Jul 29, 2011
Messages
4,297
these are people who slated Edgar Davids for making foward passes.

They like stats and think 80% possesion based on a successful passing rate of 90% of sideways backways is the way to go and best represent the club motto of To Dare is To Do.

In my humble opinion, i think they are missing the point, To Dare is To Do comes in many form.

Having a plan and executing it to perfection is To Dare is To Do
Not sccumbing to media gibberishand and pressure is To Dare is To Do
Winning ugly is To Dare is To Do

I rather we have 20% possesion in the opponents half than 80% of stactic dross in front of Lloris every single time.

Mourinho is To Dare is To Do and we are going to Win Win Win
I dare you to use spell check
 

dagraham

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Sep 20, 2005
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14,930
Whilst I can’t lie and say the performances are enjoyable, I refuse to blame the manager when he’s been left without a senior striker.

He gets a free pass from me until the day the club do something about it.
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
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Jun 13, 2008
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20,902
I said it already, that many will be surprised by the new approach he developed whilst out the game. I think we are going to be very aggressive offensively and defensively, with super pace 2/3’s of the pitch. Imagine once he has the players he wants? Exciting times.
So, allowing for a bit of fine tuning/development and adjusting to whatever team he had, basically the same concepts and approach he used at Porto.

And then Chelsea.

After that, Inter.

Oh, and then Real Madrid.

(We'll skip the recent history...)

New approach indeed.
 
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