Manager watch: Jose Mourinho

How do you feel about Mourinho appointment

  • Excited - silverware here we come baby

    Votes: 632 55.8%
  • Meh - will give him a chance and hope he is successful

    Votes: 419 37.0%
  • Horrified - praying for the day he'll fuck off

    Votes: 81 7.2%

  • Total voters
    1,132

Ronwol196061

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2018
Messages
3,766
I really like Jose's pressers and think they are honest but I want to ask him one question and its this. He said that he would have preferred 3 forwards but he only has 2 (Taking into consideration I guess other factors) so why were we hitting balls to the front two if they were covered why didn't we play more through the midfield?
I would almost answer my own question by saying that the midfield were also covered,so I wonder what were we doing wrong that Southampton had all the space in the world when they were attacking and when we were moving the ball we were constantly covered (in the first half) Was it their superior fitness? their organization?
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
3,387
I think that's a fair and balanced stance. The football has been poor on the whole, I would agree with that. First half yesterday was abysmal without a doubt. I'm just taking the optimistic stance because I can't see how Mourinho would want us to play in such a disjointed way. I think he's just in survival mode at the moment due to injuries, fitness and confidence issues within the squad.

Southampton are no joke right now, they gave Liverpool a hell of a game for an hour. We might look at our team on paper and think we should dominate them but they are fit, confident and have fully adapted to their managers style, while we put out a patchwork side playing in a cobbled together 3-5-2 with two recognised attackers. Part of me wants to think we should be seeing obvious patterns of play by now but at the same time I don't think that'll come until Jose has more time on the training ground and the players have more time to gel. Under Jose I think it's more of an organic process than more modern managers like Poch or even Hassenhuttl. Jose is a very reactive manager which is why we are nicking games like this, it's that special sauce that was always lacking under Poch sadly.

The million dollar question is whether Jose can ever get our general play up to an enjoyable standard, and enable us to dominate lesser teams like we did under Poch. I'm hopeful he can in time, due to the talent we have in our squad, but I don't think we'll know for sure either way until next season, largely due to the Kane injury and us being unable to address key squad areas in January.

I do think however over the course of the two Southampton games there were more than enough counter opportunities spurned to justify the gameplan against them. Especially the first game when we missed two 1 v 1s and should have had the tie buried at HT. Yesterday was more about poor decisions killing great opportunities but there were always goals in the game for us, even though we were the inferior team. What I'm hoping for is us becoming more clinical in these counters, as well as more effective in our general play. A combination of resilience and ruthlessness.

One thing I don't think we can deny is that the players are playing for him and team spirit and confidence is (re)building. I watched his interview for the club's social media and he was talking about how GLC and Dele were both desperate to play and help the team but they had to be careful with them. Was great to hear.
I mean, if anyone looked at our team on paper before the game and though that based on form then they haven't been paying attention.
 

carpediem991

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 31, 2011
Messages
5,960
My thoughts about Joses tactics and line up yesterday:

(-) 3 centre backs, a slow Dier in front, and two Full Backs who are not close to an attacking threat that Liverpools are or Walker / Rose in their prime. So it left us very very short in attack and midfield. And one of these midfielders was Tanguy who is basically taking part for 30 minutes then is done. Didn't like that shape a single bit. Don't get why Sess does not get a chance a bit further upfront. He looked good there against Bayern. With the players out there I would have gone for:
--------------Llors-----------
Serge-TA-------Verts--Japhet
--------------Dier--------------
-------Tanguy---Winks---------
--Lucas-------Son---Sessegnon-

(+) I liked that he adjusted that straight after half time instead of persisting on something clearly not working. His changes given the alternatives were good and worked out.

(-) Obviously I am not watching the training but I feel like Skipp should get a chance. Especially with the performances Dier is producing at CM. It could have helped Tanguy to have another busy runner around him.

I really hope we try to be a bit more pro active and creative against weaker teams at home soon. Given the players we have we should be very much capable of a bit more.
For me still early days with lots of key players (Kane, Stevie, Gio) out. Rather win it with good 20 minutes at the end than lose a good game with bad 20 minutes at the end.
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2014
Messages
6,039
Absolutely cracking that we're going into the break off the back of two fantastic results, the mindset the players will be in over the break will hopefully mean we get the most out of the break whether it be the rest and feeling good ready to tackle rest of the season or the mental focus on any efforts will put into the training on our tactics.
 

Darth Vega

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2013
Messages
795
I think people need to hark back to Poch's first season. We played maybe two good games that year - Arsenal and Chelsea at home - and everything else was a giant slog.

Jose has come in mid-season with not only no pre-season, but games every few days so little time to train; injuries to key players; a low confidence squad; and a squad that fundamentally isn't his.

Anyone expecting us to pull up trees performance-wise is setting the bar too high. Even Pep & Klopp struggled (relatively speaking) until they got the players they wanted, and Poch's team peaked in its third season. What we're watching isn't great, but I don't know how much more we can expect given the circumstances.
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
11,864
I think people need to hark back to Poch's first season. We played maybe two good games that year - Arsenal and Chelsea at home - and everything else was a giant slog.

Jose has come in mid-season with not only no pre-season, but games every few days so little time to train; injuries to key players; a low confidence squad; and a squad that fundamentally isn't his.

Anyone expecting us to pull up trees performance-wise is setting the bar too high. Even Pep & Klopp struggled (relatively speaking) until they got the players they wanted, and Poch's team peaked in its third season. What we're watching isn't great, but I don't know how much more we can expect given the circumstances.
I do agree with this to extent. However, speaking to Man U and Chelsea supporting friends they confirmed to me that we are witnessing the beginnings of 'Jose-ball'. As fans you gloss over the turgid style when the silverware arrives and you are winning matches but once the losses start there is nothing to fall back on.

He is trying to turn us from a progressive, front-foot, high pressing team that look to dominate possession (peak Poch) . To a back-foot, passive and reactive, counter-attacking team. It can work if you have a rock-solid, inpenetrable defence - like he had at Inter and Chelsea. But when your defence are porous or uncertain, then alot of time you start with a disadvantage and with the wrong mentality(as we saw from his time at Man U).

I've never been a fan of his style of football but realise he still needs to time to properly stamp his philosophy on the team. I just hope I don't die of boredom before we pick up our first piece of silverware under him.
 

Timberwolf

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
2,283
I do agree with this to extent. However, speaking to Man U and Chelsea supporting friends they confirmed to me that we are witnessing the beginnings of 'Jose-ball'. As fans you gloss over the turgid style when the silverware arrives and you are winning matches but once the losses start there is nothing to fall back on.

He is trying to turn us from a progressive, front-foot, high pressing team that look to dominate possession (peak Poch) . To a back-foot, passive and reactive, counter-attacking team. It can work if you have a rock-solid, inpenetrable defence - like he had at Inter and Chelsea. But when your defence are porous or uncertain, then alot of time you start with a disadvantage and with the wrong mentality(as we saw from his time at Man U).

I've never been a fan of his style of football but realise he still needs to time to properly stamp his philosophy on the team. I just hope I don't die of boredom before we pick up our first piece of silverware under him.
My Chelsea supporting friends are a more positive about his style of play than the Utd ones. Maybe it was simply due to the wealth of attacking talent, but there were spells at Chelsea when they played some nice attacking stuff - it's just Jose's capacity to completely kill a game to achieve a result that sticks in many people's minds, especially as he so often did it in the big games which is what most neutrals/opposition fans watch.

Utd on the other hand...that was just a shitshow. They did do well results-wise in that 2nd season, but yeah the football, especially towards the end, was pretty diire.
 

Wheeler Dealer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Messages
4,297
I do agree with this to extent. However, speaking to Man U and Chelsea supporting friends they confirmed to me that we are witnessing the beginnings of 'Jose-ball'. As fans you gloss over the turgid style when the silverware arrives and you are winning matches but once the losses start there is nothing to fall back on.

He is trying to turn us from a progressive, front-foot, high pressing team that look to dominate possession (peak Poch) . To a back-foot, passive and reactive, counter-attacking team. It can work if you have a rock-solid, inpenetrable defence - like he had at Inter and Chelsea. But when your defence are porous or uncertain, then alot of time you start with a disadvantage and with the wrong mentality(as we saw from his time at Man U).

I've never been a fan of his style of football but realise he still needs to time to properly stamp his philosophy on the team. I just hope I don't die of boredom before we pick up our first piece of silverware under him.
Spot on analysis..
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2014
Messages
6,039
What's your view and understanding of our tactics?
I'm not sure whether to answer this as it feels sarcastic:cautious: I was basing that on Jose saying he couldn't wait until Jan/Feb so he had time to properly work on things on the training pitch where as before it was games every 3 days and only thing at the training ground they could do is recovery work.
 

Colonel Dax

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
2,327
My Chelsea supporting friends are a more positive about his style of play than the Utd ones. Maybe it was simply due to the wealth of attacking talent, but there were spells at Chelsea when they played some nice attacking stuff
This. I remember going to see Spurs v Chelsea at WHL early on in Jose's reign. We lost 2-0 and it could have been more. Lampard scored twice, Drogba bullied our defence and Robben and Duff on the wings absolutely ruined us. Our team was pretty mediocre back then but even so I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Chelsea imposed themselves and looked threatening every time they went forward.
 

Darth Vega

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2013
Messages
795
I do agree with this to extent. However, speaking to Man U and Chelsea supporting friends they confirmed to me that we are witnessing the beginnings of 'Jose-ball'. As fans you gloss over the turgid style when the silverware arrives and you are winning matches but once the losses start there is nothing to fall back on.

He is trying to turn us from a progressive, front-foot, high pressing team that look to dominate possession (peak Poch) . To a back-foot, passive and reactive, counter-attacking team. It can work if you have a rock-solid, inpenetrable defence - like he had at Inter and Chelsea. But when your defence are porous or uncertain, then alot of time you start with a disadvantage and with the wrong mentality(as we saw from his time at Man U).

I've never been a fan of his style of football but realise he still needs to time to properly stamp his philosophy on the team. I just hope I don't die of boredom before we pick up our first piece of silverware under him.
I don't disagree necessarily, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until he has a proper pre-season and at least one more transfer window to build the squad to his liking. If we're still playing this poorly way mid-way into next season, then i'll panic.
 

SpartanSpur

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2011
Messages
7,586
My Chelsea supporting friends are a more positive about his style of play than the Utd ones. Maybe it was simply due to the wealth of attacking talent, but there were spells at Chelsea when they played some nice attacking stuff - it's just Jose's capacity to completely kill a game to achieve a result that sticks in many people's minds, especially as he so often did it in the big games which is what most neutrals/opposition fans watch.

Utd on the other hand...that was just a shitshow. They did do well results-wise in that 2nd season, but yeah the football, especially towards the end, was pretty diire.
Agreed. I don't think you can put Utd and Chelsea fans together on this one. I have in laws and some close friends that unfortunately are Chelsea fans and they all hold Jose in very high esteem and did not want to see him come to us. Pretty much all of them felt he was stabbed in the back by the players the second time around at Chelsea (he's not the only one). They say there are many ways to win a football match but also told me that his teams can play nice football when firing on all cylinders, especially outside of big games.

Interesting side note, they almost to a man preferred Jose and Conte to the possession orientated Sarri, and said the football on the whole was more enjoyable.

The Utd spell is what has really killed Jose's stock and has led to vast majority of the negativity about him and his tactics in the hive mind IMO...
 
Last edited:

Gb160

I could catch a monkey
Joined
Jun 20, 2012
Messages
18,782
I've never been a fan of his style of football but realise he still needs to time to properly stamp his philosophy on the team. I just hope I don't die of boredom before we pick up our first piece of silverware under him.
Different strokes for different folks.
Speaking of dying of boredom, once teams worked Poch's tactics out, which was a good couple of years ago, we were normally treated to 80 odd percent possession with 2000 completed passes per match while we tried to unpick a packed defence...tbh it used to bore me shitless.

This revisionism of Poch's 'high press' style is kinda funny, it only really existed for 2 seasons before almost every manager in the league worked him out.
 

Wheeler Dealer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Messages
4,297
I'm not sure whether to answer this as it feels sarcastic:cautious: I was basing that on Jose saying he couldn't wait until Jan/Feb so he had time to properly work on things on the training pitch where as before it was games every 3 days and only thing at the training ground they could do is recovery work.
No, not meant to feel sarcastic, as keen to understand how you view our tactics, because I'm struggling to get a real feel of where we are trying to go. Interested to get others views that's all
 

Wheeler Dealer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Messages
4,297
This revisionism of Poch's 'high press' style is kinda funny, it only really existed for 2 seasons before almost every manager in the league worked him out.
Klopp and Guardiola have been pressing for years, and they have yet to be worked out.... Maybe City have to some degree, but the dippers have gone from strength to strength. be interesting to see how they approach next season
 

JCRD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
6,834
We looked so so much better when we played our game ont he front foot and building our attacks. We pushed higher up and actually played the game that our players are best suited to. Jose should really use that but strengthen it not abolish it. Our strikers actually looked like strikers, our midfielders looked like midfielders.
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Messages
10,352
No, not meant to feel sarcastic, as keen to understand how you view our tactics, because I'm struggling to get a real feel of where we are trying to go. Interested to get others views that's all
I think we're cobbling stuff together and everything is on a wing and a prayer. We won't get any sort of clear picture until we have a summer transfer window and full pre-season under our belts. Mourinho is very capable of working under these constraints though since he observes and reacts better than most.
 

Gb160

I could catch a monkey
Joined
Jun 20, 2012
Messages
18,782
Klopp and Guardiola have been pressing for years, and they have yet to be worked out
The have the quality to unpick the packed defences when teams sit deep, and they have the pace to do damage when teams try to play high against them, I think we always lacked the former under Poch.
 

Kiedis

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2013
Messages
2,691
Just don't see the need to paint what we did under Poch in so unflattering colours. Some of the revisionism in here really does my head in.
 
Top