Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[Albertbarich]

I don't know if this has been posted already ? ... but here we go:

• Tottenham have forced the most high turnovers in the Premier League this season (47) and have the best pressing metric in the league - as their opponents manage just 6.2 passes on average before Spurs win the ball back.
• They have also enjoyed the most possession (67.8%) and allowed their opponents to complete just 795 passes so far, 301 fewer than any other side.

We’re so close to be a great team it’s just that last bit were lack but we look way off it at the Moment

 

[cliff jones]

I don't know if this has been posted already ? ... but here we go:

• Tottenham have forced the most high turnovers in the Premier League this season (47) and have the best pressing metric in the league - as their opponents manage just 6.2 passes on average before Spurs win the ball back.
• They have also enjoyed the most possession (67.8%) and allowed their opponents to complete just 795 passes so far, 301 fewer than any other side.

yet we have 4 points, and have only scored more than 1 in one game.

Do we have the quality up there to make these tactics count?

 

[Goobers]

We’re so close to be a great team it’s just that last bit were lack but we look way off it at the Moment

The way we won the ball back off the opposition in the first few games for me is the single biggest improvement from n our team this season.

 

[Gb160]

I don't know if this has been posted already ? ... but here we go:

• Tottenham have forced the most high turnovers in the Premier League this season (47) and have the best pressing metric in the league - as their opponents manage just 6.2 passes on average before Spurs win the ball back.
• They have also enjoyed the most possession (67.8%) and allowed their opponents to complete just 795 passes so far, 301 fewer than any other side.

And this just illustrates how the manager isn't the problem. The system works, we just lack the quality to capitalise where it matters.

 

[For the love of Spurs]

I don't know if this has been posted already ? ... but here we go:

• Tottenham have forced the most high turnovers in the Premier League this season (47) and have the best pressing metric in the league - as their opponents manage just 6.2 passes on average before Spurs win the ball back.
• They have also enjoyed the most possession (67.8%) and allowed their opponents to complete just 795 passes so far, 301 fewer than any other side.

Yep the system is working in terms of pressing, ball rentention. We don’t have the forward that fit this type of play though, we naturally compression the opposition almost like how City do but in the smaller space we don’t have the explosive technical players.

I do think this system can work for us, if our forward line had a better profile we would be looking at a different situation entirely.

 

[SamR]

I do think Ange needs to take a step back and evolve his philosophy.

We aren’t dangerous enough in possession and we’re vulnerable with balls into the box. Ironically most of our chance creation should be from our own balls into the oppositions box, but we don’t seem to be able to capitalise on that. We look more dangerous on the counter attack, breaking with space to run in to.

With that all said, the general level of the premier league has increased dramatically over the last few seasons - very competitive and Spurs have slid back into the pack.

I don’t think the recruitment has been terrible, and Ange seems to suggest he got what he wanted, but if we improve 5%, others are improving 10-15%.

I think this will be a long, tough season. We’re a bit short of quality in key areas and that will haunt us as always.

 

[Styopa]

I don’t think the recruitment has been terrible, and Ange seems to suggest he got what he wanted, but if we improve 5%, others are improving 10-15%.

I think this will be a long, tough season. We’re a bit short of quality in key areas and that will haunt us as always

Yeah this is an important point. I think most of us are focused on Spurs matches and catch bits and pieces of other teams here and there. So we tend to focus on ways we are improving and don’t always factor in how other clubs have improved.

We tend to assume as long as we improve we will do better but improvement needs to be put into the wider context of how other clubs are improving too.

As a club we tend to do just about enough to stand still. Our average league position since 2001 is 6th - and somewhere around 6th, give or take a place or two, is what I would consider a reasonable target this season.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Honestly I don’t think it’s Ange that most fans are losing patience with. Some are, for sure, but not the majority.

Most fans are losing patience with not winning a major domestic or European trophy for over thirty years.

Most fans are losing patience with not winning any trophies for over fifteen years.

Most fans are losing patience with the five years of stagnation since we sacked Poch.

Most fans are losing patience with paying some of the highest ticket prices in the world to watch some truly dire football over the last five years.

We shouldn’t blame Ange for that, because this all started a long time before Ange arrived. But you shouldn’t be amazed that fans are getting impatient. It’s not like we all started supporting Spurs last season.

Spot on.

 

[mmidgers]

And this just illustrates how the manager isn't the problem. The system works, we just lack the quality to capitalise where it matters.

Which further illustrates why the summer window was another missed opportunity to push on.

 

[For the love of Spurs]

Yeah this is an important point. I think most of us are focused on Spurs matches and catch bits and pieces of other teams here and there. So we tend to focus on ways we are improving and don’t always factor in how other clubs have improved.

We tend to assume as long as we improve we will do better but improvement needs to be put into the wider context of how other clubs are improving too.

As a club we tend to do just about enough to stand still. Our average league position since 2001 is 6th - and somewhere around 6th, give or take a place or two, is what I would consider a reasonable target this season.

We have bought long term. These are not mostly ready made signings Solanke excepted. Therefore you always have the danger of building a squad for the next manager not this one.

Would the fans and the club accept 8-12th place this season in return for bedding in young players in the hope Ange in 2 seasons can lead us back to top 4 and compete for trophies. Basically writing off a season or two as development to fit the clubs economic and youth priorities.

If the club is not then I don’t get the strategy. We have bought long term not short term and that comes with a cost.

 

[RuskyM]

It's not mad mate there's a clear and direct correlation between spending/wages and success.
The very few that have won without spending are the outliers.
We reduced our wage bill this summer, it's the exact opposite of ambition which I think is the part that many fans are finding difficult to stomach.

Oh wasn’t suggesting it was misplaced - just more that it's weird the two 'successes' we've had have been with two of the least revered managers. You could maybe argue Poch was a double edged sword because we did become, briefly, the best team in the country under Levy's approach. We just have nothing to show for it.

The way we won the ball back off the opposition in the first few games for me is the single biggest improvement from n our team this season.

It's why I'm so confused by the notion that it's all the same. The results may not be improving but I think the performances are (which I'll take over say 13/14 when we were winning games but it was so obviously unsustainable).

 

[RuskyM]

We have bought long term. These are not mostly ready made signings Solanke excepted. Therefore you always have the danger of building a squad for the next manager not this one.

Would the fans and the club accept 8-12th place this season in return for bedding in young players in the hope Ange in 2 seasons can lead us back to top 4 and compete for trophies. Basically writing off a season or two as development to fit the clubs economic and youth priorities.

If the club is not then I don’t get the strategy. We have bought long term not short term and that comes with a cost.

I don't really see any other way we can compete.

 

[rossdapep]

Oh wasn’t suggesting it was misplaced - just more that it's weird the two 'successes' we've had have been with two of the least revered managers. You could maybe argue Poch was a double edged sword because we did become, briefly, the best team in the country under Levy's approach. We just have nothing to show for it.

It's why I'm so confused by the notion that it's all the same. The results may not be improving but I think the performances are (which I'll take over say 13/14 when we were winning games but it was so obviously unsustainable).

Bar the Coventry game we have been better

 

[cliff jones]

• They have lost seven of their past 11 top-flight matches, only earning points in that run against relegated pair Burnley and Sheffield United, promoted Leicester City and bottom of the table Everton.
• Tottenham have conceded 26 set-piece goals in the Premier League since the start of last season, second only to Nottingham Forest's 27

KNEE JERK

 

[RuskyM]

Bar the Coventry game we have been better

Oh I sort of took that as read - it was bad, but you'd be hard pressed to name many early round performances that have been good in recent years.

In fact come to think of it I'm hard pressed to name many early round opponents in recent years. I remember last year cause it was three games all against PL teams, I remember Forest in 22/23...was it Portsmouth and Wycombe in the FA Cup?

 

[cliff jones]

Oh wasn’t suggesting it was misplaced - just more that it's weird the two 'successes' we've had have been with two of the least revered managers. You could maybe argue Poch was a double edged sword because we did become, briefly, the best team in the country under Levy's approach. We just have nothing to show for it.

It's why I'm so confused by the notion that it's all the same. The results may not be improving but I think the performances are (which I'll take over say 13/14 when we were winning games but it was so obviously unsustainable).

"Best team in the country under Levy's approach" - what is his approach? He hasn't got one. Which way is the wind blowing?

 

[Ledley's Right Foot]

• They have lost seven of their past 11 top-flight matches, only earning points in that run against relegated pair Burnley and Sheffield United, promoted Leicester City and bottom of the table Everton.
• Tottenham have conceded 26 set-piece goals in the Premier League since the start of last season, second only to Nottingham Forest's 27

Those seven defeats were against Arsenal, x 2 Newcastle, x 2 Chelsea, City, Liverpool.

We had a really tough run in last season and a lot of back loaded games against the top sides. We also played the teams around us with injuries and suspensions hitting hard.

I'd rather see us winning more, and we are close to it...but those losses aren't as unexpected as they seem.

 

[RuskyM]

• They have lost seven of their past 11 top-flight matches, only earning points in that run against relegated pair Burnley and Sheffield United, promoted Leicester City and bottom of the table Everton.
• Tottenham have conceded 26 set-piece goals in the Premier League since the start of last season, second only to Nottingham Forest's 27

KNEE JERK

Well, obviously we measure things over 11 games or 42 games, that's just how statistics work.

 

[For the love of Spurs]

this is incredibly brave but chancing it with Levy big time. It does make me want to give him a lot of time, who knows if it’s BS or not but if he means I am happy with this route.

 

[Whazam]

this is incredibly brave but chancing it with Levy big time. It does make me want to give him a lot of time, who knows if it’s BS or not but if he means I am happy with this route.

In what way is it chancing it?