Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[Gb160]

Yes, but that's what has also put us in this vicious circle.

The teams that have success in the modern football era either have spending power way above ours, or stick with a project and achieve success over time...

I'm pointing out your apparent shock that a fanbase is impatient after 20 odd years of winning next to nothing.
It really shouldn't be a shock, it's human nature.

 

[E17yid]

I don’t think that’s true. There’s bigger expectations now than in 2008. As we can see, it’s not taking relegation form for people to turn on him now. I don’t believe winning a cup gives any manager at a top club breathing room these days, and I don’t think it’s true that Arteta got an easier ride from the Arsenal fans because he won a cup. They were frothing at the mouth for him to go when they were 16th at Christmas the following year.

Why? Because in the grand scheme of things Cups are generally won on luck as well as being a good side. They’re one off games where anything can happen. So they don’t really show the true progress of where a club is at. Arteta was lucky to win the cup in his first season, so was Ramos. Those cup wins didn’t decide their fate. Arteta was given time and patience by the club to rebuild his squad exactly how he needed it to be. Ramos had his best players sold and was dumped after 8 games.

Look at Moyes, wins West Ham their first trophy in decades, and the fans wanted him out almost immediately the following season. Gets dumped by the end of his contract. Thats West Ham ffs, a club who’s ambitions are far below our own.

Cups don’t get you anything in this game apart from the shiny cup.

Yeah fair points but I just think we’re different due being starved of trophies for so long. Arsenal fans give less of a shit about the FA cup coz they’ve won fuck loads of them in the last decade, they naturally wanted to see progression in the league to get them back into the Champions league positions whereas us Spurs fans are just desperate for a trophy. The vast majority of us would be more than happy with a 8th place finish this season (shit, I’d take a 15th place finish) if we won the FA cup and therefore we’d be a lot more forgiving of any patchy league form in the first 4 games the following season, with the caveat that as long as we weren’t showing relegation from after the first 8-10 games. I appreciate this is all just based of gut feeling and accept I could be reading it completely wrong, I do generally subscribe to the idea all fans are the same but I do think there are slight differences in things like this.

 

[For the love of Spurs]

Wow. The lack of patience from supporters is shocking.

BBC article today putting Ange under pressure. Just like the idiot gooners most of us would have wanted Arteta out after finishing 8th. Now look at them when they actually stuck with and backed a manager.

Ange is the right man. He's the right fit. His football is the right sort. He needs time.

Unfortunately most football fans want instant success and will want him out after a few losses. Losses where we've outplayed the opposition mind, lost by fine margins and were a bit of attacking quality short of being the real deal. The game where we played badly (Coventry) we won and that's football.

Unless we have a terrible season, which I don't think we will. He needs to stay. He still needs a few more transfer windows and more time but given time it will come good in my opinion. I have faith in the man.

I have no issue giving Ange time. I mean who are we going to get anyway, Tuchel would be a stop gap short term and nothing else really stands out.

I think a lot of posters on this board including myself have completely lost patience with ENIC and it’s constant failures, that is not the same as losing patience with Ange, I can’t see what sacking someone and bringing in Mason will do.

 

[ajspurs]

I think the start to the Leicester game was positive however by the end of the game with the Vardy chance we could have easily lost. Ben saved us from a loss against Coventry. We never looked like scoring against Arsenal.

The Newcastle game we played better but looked so vulnerable every-time they got in our half. So the only match we can use as a real positive was Everton, it was a great win, but they’re bottom with 0 points so not sure what we can take from that.

I really want to see us dominate Brentford today as it’s against a top manager in Frank, who will definitely know how to set up against us. If we can win then things ain’t so bad.

It's small margins but I think the Leicester game was close to being the perfect away performance, we just didn't capitalise on our dominance to get the second goal that I think would have seen a completely different game. Of course in the way that things did proceed, yes we ended up lucky to even get a point. The Newcastle one I thought as you say defensively we were poor, but I really can't recall many times at all that we've gone to St.James' Park and dominated the ball like that. I guess it depends on how you view each game really, I don't think either of us are wrong in our assessments. Coventry was poor but I'd also expect that with the changes, which I think was a big mistake by Ange. Arsenal I agree in that I think we could be playing now and we still wouldn't have scored.

I think Brentford will either really frustrate or we'll win somewhat comfortable. Going for 3-1.

I hear you ajspurs, these guys have been at the club long enough now, Sonny is 32 its time to stand and deliver.

Moussa, Eriksen, Dele, Jan, Harry, Toby etc all raised their game which then propelled us it's time these current guys having been at the club for some good time now start doing the same.
3 pts against Brentford would be a good start

Yeah 100%. You used to be able to look around the team and think (in an attacking sense) that the danger could come from Kane, Son, Dele, or Eriksen. All of them were capable of stepping up and providing either a goal, assist or moment of magic in any game irrespective of the quality of the opposition. What we have now pale's in comparison, which I think is a consequence of wanting to replace the high quality we've had on the cheap.

 

[kitchen]

I'm pointing out your apparent shock that a fanbase is impatient after 20 odd years of winning next to nothing.
It really shouldn't be a shock, it's human nature.

You're right. I shouldn't be shocked. But when I put a level head on I am exasperated. Fans have enough time to recover from a loss to stop acting on emotion at some points and actually apply some logic. The chop and change method with managers hasn't got us anywhere in 20 years, and yet we lose a few games and some of us are calling for chop and change!

Also if you open your eyes, you can see the football is not far off, and some attacking quality away from being very, very good. We just overreact to a few bad results.

Problem is that we all get caught up in the tribalism, the bragging rights, the 'warra trophy' comments on X and the BBC comments section, the Sky sports rhetoric, all the noise and bullshit that surrounds this sport.

Ignore the noise, watch the games, back the manager.

As for Levy and ENIC... difficult one. The club is exceptionally well run from a business perspective, which has allowed us to now be in amongst the richest in a pay to win sport. That should set us up well for the future.

Whatever you think of Levy, he is a very sophisticated builder of a business and has turned us into a football club worth the best part of 3.5 - 4 billion pounds. However, we spend well within our means, whilst others spend at the limit (or beyond - without repercussions it seems!), and I think this is the problem. Footballing success, it appears, is not first on the agenda, but if it was, would we have grown to where we are now without a sugar daddy?

 

[Albertbarich]

I’m sorry but any suggestions that any of this is the fanbase is something I find ridiculous.

Take away the ticket prices, the previous issues, the 20 plus years of nothing etc and take some things the club have done. The chairman claimed this stadium would be game changing, said it would enable us to compete with the best. We’re certainly still not doing that.

The manager who I love has consistently said he just wants to win, I don’t have the quotes but I’m sure he has said he wants to win trophies, challenge for the league. The guy is as good a public speaker as anyone and he makes you believe so much.
Now you can argue about spending and whether you think that the summer window was good if you want but I don’t think anyone believes we have any chance of challenging for the league now.

The club off the pitch acts one way, it’s probably the best run club in the world away from the pitch and it certainly presents itself as a huge huge football club, the manager talks like we’re expect to go toe to toe with the best and then they present a transfer window like that (and others if we’re honest) which gives the exact opposite impression. Add the bad start tacked onto the bad end to last season and you have a fanbase that have heard the chat and are seeing the actions not exactly backing it up. Because I think we had all hoped in the summer we would add real quality and depth to push us into that top three.

But the stadium is always sold out, the shop packed , the away end sold out. What more can the fans do? Not have an opinion? The only manager I think we ever got sacked was nuno and the fact he was ever here should have pushed levy out anyway. We’re powerless. Don’t mistake debate on social media for anything the club care about. Unless it’s a mutiny in the stadium the only thing getting a manager the sack is if the board think we’re getting nowhere near European football.

We have shown we have no appetite for protesting, we rarely get angry en mass and as I said people will always turn up so really this is all
Just venting as Enic aren’t going anywhere as they have a hotel and other stuff to build. But please don’t feel sorry for levy and co, he is probably going to become a billionaire from a. Football club that never wins trophies

 

[Gb160]

You're right. I shouldn't be shocked. But when I put a level head on I am exasperated. Fans have enough time to recover from a loss to stop acting on emotion at some points and actually apply some logic. The chop and change method with managers hasn't got us anywhere in 20 years, and yet we lose a few games and some of us are calling for chop and change!

Also if you open your eyes, you can see the football is not far off, and some attacking quality away from being very, very good. We just overreact to a few bad results.

Problem is that we all get caught up in the tribalism, the bragging rights, the 'warra trophy' comments on X and the BBC comments section, the Sky sports rhetoric, all the noise and bullshit that surrounds this sport.

Ignore the noise, watch the games, back the manager.

As for Levy and ENIC... difficult one. The club is exceptionally well run from a business perspective, which has allowed us to now be in amongst the richest in a pay to win sport. That should set us up well for the future.

Whatever you think of Levy, he is a very sophisticated builder of a business and has turned us into a football club worth the best part of 3.5 - 4 billion pounds. However, we spend well within our means, whilst others spend at the limit (or beyond - without repercussions it seems!), and I think this is the problem. Footballing success, it appears, is not first on the agenda, but if it was, would we have grown to where we are now without a sugar daddy?

I agree with the majority of this mate, and for the record I don’t want Ange replaced, it will achieve nothing.
I haven’t been near football social media for a good few years now so any taunting from other fans goes straight over my head.

I think there are very few fans now that actually believe just a change in manger is what we need. It’s becoming clearer and clearer that the managers aren’t the problem.

 

[Danners9]

I have no issue giving Ange time. I mean who are we going to get anyway, Tuchel would be a stop gap short term and nothing else really stands out.

I think a lot of posters on this board including myself have completely lost patience with ENIC and it’s constant failures, that is not the same as losing patience with Ange, I can’t see what sacking someone and bringing in Mason will do.

DL does love appointing a former Chelsea boss...

But anyway, I feel fans have been losing patience faster since Poch left and it's feels like we may as well go straight to the end instead of months of drawn out decline. But it is frustration with the owners, the direction they have chosen, and the conditions they have created.

Not saying that is happening or should be the case now, but after Mourinho, Conte, and Nuno I can see why many would feel it is inevitable after a few poor results and start to move in that direction earlier and earlier. Fans feel (and I say this as an armchair fan now) exploited and never rewarded - especially as it always seems the manager is left short and expected to over achieve, again despite the record income or all the other commercial activities the club has been very good at generating. The football team always looks like the last priority.

 

[west indie]

It's small margins but I think the Leicester game was close to being the perfect away performance, we just didn't capitalise on our dominance to get the second goal that I think would have seen a completely different game. Of course in the way that things did proceed, yes we ended up lucky to even get a point. The Newcastle one I thought as you say defensively we were poor, but I really can't recall many times at all that we've gone to St.James' Park and dominated the ball like that. I guess it depends on how you view each game really, I don't think either of us are wrong in our assessments. Coventry was poor but I'd also expect that with the changes, which I think was a big mistake by Ange. Arsenal I agree in that I think we could be playing now and we still wouldn't have scored.

I think Brentford will either really frustrate or we'll win somewhat comfortable. Going for 3-1.




Yeah 100%. You used to be able to look around the team and think (in an attacking sense) that the danger could come from Kane, Son, Dele, or Eriksen. All of them were capable of stepping up and providing either a goal, assist or moment of magic in any game irrespective of the quality of the opposition. What we have now pale's in comparison, which I think is a consequence of wanting to replace the high quality we've had on the cheap.

The way I see it, we all know about Levy/Enic's priorities of making money blah blah blah but they can't invest now till Jan. But the ones who can have a huge impact from now to Jan window with our season is the senior players having been here for some time now stepping up by rasing their performance levels.

 

[kitchen]

I’m sorry but any suggestions that any of this is the fanbase is something I find ridiculous.

Take away the ticket prices, the previous issues, the 20 plus years of nothing etc and take some things the club have done. The chairman claimed this stadium would be game changing, said it would enable us to compete with the best. We’re certainly still not doing that.

The manager who I love has consistently said he just wants to win, I don’t have the quotes but I’m sure he has said he wants to win trophies, challenge for the league. The guy is as good a public speaker as anyone and he makes you believe so much.
Now you can argue about spending and whether you think that the summer window was good if you want but I don’t think anyone believes we have any chance of challenging for the league now.

The club off the pitch acts one way, it’s probably the best run club in the world away from the pitch and it certainly presents itself as a huge huge football club, the manager talks like we’re expect to go toe to toe with the best and then they present a transfer window like that (and others if we’re honest) which gives the exact opposite impression. Add the bad start tacked onto the bad end to last season and you have a fanbase that have heard the chat and are seeing the actions not exactly backing it up. Because I think we had all hoped in the summer we would add real quality and depth to push us into that top three.

But the stadium is always sold out, the shop packed , the away end sold out. What more can the fans do? Not have an opinion? The only manager I think we ever got sacked was nuno and the fact he was ever here should have pushed levy out anyway. We’re powerless. Don’t mistake debate on social media for anything the club care about. Unless it’s a mutiny in the stadium the only thing getting a manager the sack is if the board think we’re getting nowhere near European football.

We have shown we have no appetite for protesting, we rarely get angry en mass and as I said people will always turn up so really this is all
Just venting as Enic aren’t going anywhere as they have a hotel and other stuff to build. But please don’t feel sorry for levy and co, he is probably going to become a billionaire from a. Football club that never wins trophies

The fanbase is varied and all want the best for the club. Some react far to much on emotion and on the basis of tribalism which doesn't help with a project which needs time. See Expressions (who is very funny and witty!) and influencers like him... I don't think anyone blames the failures for footballing success at Tottenham on the fanbase however.

The club building a hotel and expanding the business is also of course great, as long as the profits from it are invested back in to the football side.... If Levy becomes a billionaire, he probably deserves it. As stated, he has done an exceptional job of building the business. We're all frustrated because the business is booming but on the football pitch it appears we have more to spend, and we're not putting it back in where it counts for the football club and therein lies the problem.

 

[For the love of Spurs]

You're right. I shouldn't be shocked. But when I put a level head on I am exasperated. Fans have enough time to recover from a loss to stop acting on emotion at some points and actually apply some logic. The chop and change method with managers hasn't got us anywhere in 20 years, and yet we lose a few games and some of us are calling for chop and change!

Also if you open your eyes, you can see the football is not far off, and some attacking quality away from being very, very good. We just overreact to a few bad results.

Problem is that we all get caught up in the tribalism, the bragging rights, the 'warra trophy' comments on X and the BBC comments section, the Sky sports rhetoric, all the noise and bullshit that surrounds this sport.

Ignore the noise, watch the games, back the manager.

As for Levy and ENIC... difficult one. The club is exceptionally well run from a business perspective, which has allowed us to now be in amongst the richest in a pay to win sport. That should set us up well for the future.

Whatever you think of Levy, he is a very sophisticated builder of a business and has turned us into a football club worth the best part of 3.5 - 4 billion pounds. However, we spend well within our means, whilst others spend at the limit (or beyond - without repercussions it seems!), and I think this is the problem. Footballing success, it appears, is not first on the agenda, but if it was, would we have grown to where we are now without a sugar daddy?

Neither Liverpool nor Arsenal have a sugar daddy and their revenues are similar to ours. They however seem to put at least some priority on footballing success, they will take risks like Rice and Van Dijk when called for and they seem to have a strategy where backing the manager is part of it. The window was a club window, cutting wages and players for the future, it was not a window for Ange.

This window we needed back up for the left side of our defence, an elite dribbling winger and a striker for Ange and we got 1/3 of it with Solanke. Every manager we either don’t get the players or if we do it’s either the wrong position or if not a player that might be good enough but a huge gamble or if they are young will be good enough in 2-3 years when the manager is sacked and gone.

We are Tottenham Hotspur FOOTBALL CLUB. Its nice we have a hotel coming, NFL is here and the training ground has world class toilets but at some point I’d like to see the full focus given to backing a manager, I have never seen that yet, ever. We have been remarkably patient, I accepted the stadium might kill the Pochettino project and it sort of did with the lack of spending and Wembley but in the hope that once done the entire club would be focused on football.

Levy has been here 25 years, it’s time for him to step down, the guy is outdated, he can have a nice legacy of the stadium and training ground but it’s time to go for the good of this football club. We have become Daniel Levy FC and we are not winning jack shit as that no matter how much revenue we generate because it all comes down to this, we have rivals who are desperate to win and will do anything to get there while for us it’s a nice to have if the economics work in a financially prudent manner.

We can tell Ange he should adapt but his system needs top winger to work, we don’t have them, we have good wide forwards in Son and Johnson, a mediocre winger in Werner and a kid. This is not serious if the club actually wants to do something.

 

[Albertbarich]

The fanbase is varied and all want the best for the club. Some react far to much on emotion and on the basis of tribalism which doesn't help with a project which needs time. See Expressions (who is very funny and witty!) and influencers like him... I don't think anyone blames the failures for footballing success at Tottenham on the fanbase however.

The club building a hotel and expanding the business is also of course great, as long as the profits from it are invested back in to the football side.... If Levy becomes a billionaire, he probably deserves it. As stated, he has done an exceptional job of building the business. We're all frustrated because the business is booming but on the football pitch it appears we have more to spend, and we're not putting it back in where it counts for the football club and therein lies the problem.

I keep reading from some people how we have no patience but I just don’t agree with it. Patience in football in reality is faith. And you get that by showing progress and a clear plan.

The negativity at the moment is wholly created by the club. They had a bad end to last season , well bad half a season but I think we all thought that we would invest heavily and really push on. They didn’t though , decided to buy one first team player and some kids and because we haven’t started well the faith is disappearing. Not surprising really.

I think we will be fine, ange is a top man and we’re too good across the pitch to not start winning but any notion that we have any intentions to seriously challenge for trophies is well and truely gone in my eyes.

 

[RuskyM]

Cool, we’re at the media on his back stage. Awesome.

 

[Adam456]

Yes, but that's what has also put us in this vicious circle.

The teams that have success in the modern football era either have spending power way above ours, or stick with a project and achieve success over time...

Indeed and the further argument is if winning something is not normal for us then perhaps we should have more patience than fans of the clubs for whom it happens regularly

 

[RuskyM]

That's what winning fuck all for 20 odd years will do to a fanbase.

Tbf United have won two trophies in two years and are unhappy - I don’t think a one off trophy would’ve done much. It’s a bit mad that we think we know what will lead to success when the only two managers who’ve won something for us in the last thirty years were Graham and Ramos. (Though I guess the argument is those shouldn’t be outliers.)

 

[cookiemonster]

Absolute and complete nonsense.

He will go once the dressing room is lost

Always has been the case

 

[Albertbarich]

Cool, we’re at the media on his back stage. Awesome.

There was one bloke in the press conference yesterday who was determined to make him feel unwanted, I think there was three questions from him all about how fans didn’t like him.

prick

 

[RuskyM]

There was one bloke in the press conference yesterday who was determined to make him feel unwanted, I think there was three questions from him all about how fans didn’t like him.

prick

Fucking miserable.

 

[HildoSpur]

I like how you just take this part of the post as if I’m asking for him to go. Clearly that’s not the case, it’s just a feeling, similar to when other managers have gone in the past. Don’t be a nob.

You feeling is based on absolutely nothing mate

 

[Gb160]

Tbf United have won two trophies in two years and are unhappy - I don’t think a one off trophy would’ve done much. It’s a bit mad that we think we know what will lead to success when the only two managers who’ve won something for us in the last thirty years were Graham and Ramos. (Though I guess the argument is those shouldn’t be outliers.)

It's not mad mate there's a clear and direct correlation between spending/wages and success.
The very few that have won without spending are the outliers.
We reduced our wage bill this summer, it's the exact opposite of ambition which I think is the part that many fans are finding difficult to stomach.