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Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

Styopa

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2014
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I think people who are hoping a single trophy is going to set us off are in for a rude awakening. It will be no different to the last few times we won a trophy. We will just have something to celebrate for a bit but will still not have the winning mentality from it. It's possible with our academy winning things they might at least develop that but it's highly unlikely many will break through. Until we change our stance and sign proven winners (and not in their 30s) not a lot will change.

If anything, we took our foot off the gas after we last won a trophy. We went on a dreadful run that arguably carried over into the following season, leading to Ramos being sacked. It worked out in the end with Redknapp, but bringing him in was yet another desperate gamble. We also re-signed Keane, Defoe, and Chimbonda to help us get out of trouble.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
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86,525
If anything, we took our foot off the gas after we last won a trophy. We went on a dreadful run that arguably carried over into the following season, leading to Ramos being sacked. It worked out in the end with Redknapp, but bringing him in was yet another desperate gamble. We also re-signed Keane, Defoe, and Chimbonda to help us get out of trouble.
Because we sold Berbatov and Keane without quality replacements
 

-Afri-Coy-

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2012
6,105
19,577
Because we sold Berbatov and Keane without quality replacements

I can't think of a single time that we've sold a marquee player and replaced them with similar quality.

Bale, Modric, Berbatov, Carrick, Keane, Kane etc the list goes on.

The only thing that's gotten better is Levy's paycheck and bonuses.

We're a business, not a football club to him.
 

jurgen

Busy ****
Jul 5, 2008
6,986
18,424
I think we're the England of club football. Most of the other major footballing nations, such as France, Germany, Italy and Spain have their ups and downs but still win a few trophies along the way. Whereas England likes to think of itself as mixing it with those big boys but hasn't won a tournament for nearly sixty years. Much smaller nations than England, like Netherlands, Portugal, Denmark and Greece have won tournaments in that time. So it is with Tottenham.

Since we last won the league, Ipswich, Everton, Liverpool, Man U, Man C, Leeds, Arsenal, Derby, Forest, Villa, Blackburn, Chelsea and Leicester have won it.

Since we last won an FA Cup, Liverpool, Arsenal, Man U, Everton, Chelsea, Portsmouth, Wigan, Man C and Leicester have won it.

Even since we last won a League cup, Man U, Birmingham, Liverpool, Swansea, Man C and Chelsea have won it.
The FA = Levy... for both it seems elite performance and sporting victory is a stated aim that in reality falls somewhere far below toeing the company line and maintaining an easy status quo. Both teams are unlikely to win anything without change at the top.
 

sundanceyid10

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2013
3,536
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There are so many factors to take on board - I do firmly feel that unless everything is aligned then we will always end up back here again and again. The thought of another coach change doesn't excite me on bit. Even if it was Pep, I'd still feel the same. The thought of another change is actually sickening because it really is obvious that the discontent would start again within a 12 month period, tops.
Everything needs to align from board down. You need a strong philosophy and direction that everyone is working towards, a sporting culture established, a level and bar of excellence that people buy into. If that’s failing at stage one at the top then the rest is built on quicksand before you even start. I think this leads to us flying through managers, systems, projects in a hamster wheel and hence situations repeating over and over.
 

Styopa

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2014
6,512
18,221
I think this leads to us flying through managers, systems, projects in a hamster wheel and hence situations repeating over and over.

Sacking coaches is another way for Levy to obscure his own shortcomings when it comes to securing on-pitch success.

It gives the appearance of action—he often manages to win fans back by bringing in a new manager.

"Look! We’re hiring Mourinho, we're hiring Conte. We’re serious about winning now!"

"Look! We’re bringing in Ange. We’re focused on playing attractive football!"

This also allows the club to buy some time, as we’re told to be patient while the new manager works his magic. Then, when everything inevitably falls apart, Levy pulls the same trick again.
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
16,623
51,909
I can't think of a single time that we've sold a marquee player and replaced them with similar quality.

Bale, Modric, Berbatov, Carrick, Keane, Kane etc the list goes on.

The only thing that's gotten better is Levy's paycheck and bonuses.

We're a business, not a football club to him.

It is never going to happen though. Those player moved on because they outgrown the team and had the ability to play for elite sides, paying elite wages, playing and winning leagues and trophies.

Unless we could offer all of the above it is difficult to replace with similar quality.
 

alfie103

Well-Known Member
Jun 4, 2005
4,243
4,979
It is never going to happen though. Those player moved on because they outgrown the team and had the ability to play for elite sides, paying elite wages, playing and winning leagues and trophies.

Unless we could offer all of the above it is difficult to replace with similar quality.

We should be able to offer that now. We have the stadium and we have a lot of room in wages and PSR.
 

sundanceyid10

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2013
3,536
8,816
Sacking coaches is another way for Levy to obscure his own shortcomings when it comes to securing on-pitch success.

It gives the appearance of action—he often manages to win fans back by bringing in a new manager.

"Look! We’re hiring Mourinho, we're hiring Conte. We’re serious about winning now!"

"Look! We’re bringing in Ange. We’re focused on playing attractive football!"

This also allows the club to buy some time, as we’re told to be patient while the new manager works his magic. Then, when everything inevitably falls apart, Levy pulls the same trick again.
I agree it also seems to be the beginning of another plan each time, he writes in program notes things like there is going to be a root and branch evaluation carried out and a manager appointed at it’s conclusion.

I see little evidence of that, either that or the evaluations are really poor. It just seems like no real plan just reactionary stuff to things going wrong.
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
16,623
51,909
We should be able to offer that now. We have the stadium and we have a lot of room in wages and PSR.

Yeah we can definitely offer wages but trophies and champions league is not a given.

I personally think the plan is to build the club in such a way that we develop young players to be world class superstars but then have convey belt of the next gen of young super talents ready to step in for those that move on.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
44,608
86,525
I can't think of a single time that we've sold a marquee player and replaced them with similar quality.

Bale, Modric, Berbatov, Carrick, Keane, Kane etc the list goes on.

The only thing that's gotten better is Levy's paycheck and bonuses.

We're a business, not a football club to him.
Exactly because they're investors. They won't spend huge money unless it's on young prospects who are not on huge wages and have sell on. They consider every transfer cost wages plus fee over the course of the contract and what their likely value is. None of it is related to how the player can take us forward. We sold Kane for 100m plus over 200k wages and signed Johnson for half the fee and probably less than half the wages. Oh and he'll still have some sell on value in his late 20s.
 

alfie103

Well-Known Member
Jun 4, 2005
4,243
4,979
Yeah we can definitely offer wages but trophies and champions league is not a given.

I personally think the plan is to build the club in such a way that we develop young players to be world class superstars but then have convey belt of the next gen of young super talents ready to step in for those that move on.

It won't be a given but we will be much more likely to win those once we started competing with wages.

If that is the club's plan then it is very worrying and frankly confirms a lot of what people suspect about Levy. Why did we need to build a £1 billion stadium to follow that plan?
 

Styopa

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2014
6,512
18,221
Yeah we can definitely offer wages but trophies and champions league is not a given.

I personally think the plan is to build the club in such a way that we develop young players to be world class superstars but then have convey belt of the next gen of young super talents ready to step in for those that move on.

It's a nice idea, but relying too much on a constant flow of young talent is risky and hard to sustain. Player development can be unpredictable, and not every group will produce world-class stars. We’ll also be up against clubs with equally strong youth development systems but who offer more competitive salaries to experienced players.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
21,772
54,258
Just love how he speaks so much. 15mins especially about how people are so so quick to judge these days, he's said Solanke has played 2 games its so so early to judge.
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
16,623
51,909
It won't be a given but we will be much more likely to win those once we started competing with wages.

If that is the club's plan then it is very worrying and frankly confirms a lot of what people suspect about Levy. Why did we need to build a £1 billion stadium to follow that plan?

I think the wages thing is a misnomer. Someone shared an article in here that summarised how many prem clubs were cutting their wage bills, because of PSR and the lack of money in other european leagues meaning it's impossible to shift deadwood on high wages. It mentioned this being the main reason why Chelsea were getting rid of both Sterling and Chilwell.

Also, if Udogie, Gray, Bergvall, VDV etc... all start fulfilling their potential it won't be long before their wages are increased anyway. Our wage bill being what it is, is a direct result of trying to build the squad back from the ground up. Filling it with young talents to start a new cycle.

Yes we are more competitive on wages because of the stadium, but it doesn't mean we're going compete with Chelsea's reckless level of spending, and give injury prone players 7 year contracts. It means when those young players I listed fulfil their potential we can offer them big contract renewals (as is reportedly happening with Romero), and if the squad gets to the stage where it needs 1 or 2 finished articles to push us to compete for the league, we have the capacity to do it.

On that last point, we haven't been at the stage where the squad is performing at capacity and needs a couple of ready made players to push on since peak Poch. This was obviously something we couldn't do at the time due to the stadium build. So we'll see what Levy is really made of if we get to that level again, because by all accounts we should have the ability to make those signings and push the team on (a la Rice signing for Arsenal) with the additional stadium revenues.
 

Yiddo100

Well-Known Member
Jan 16, 2019
10,934
55,257
If your looking for somebody to take responsibiity for our recruitment, put an L in front of ange.
Dragusin, Solanke, Grey, Bergvall, Yang, Odobert and Werner.

Bar Werner it’s hardly a bad list, quite clear he’s been asked to bring in young talent for the future, whether if he was given free reign these are the players he’d be signing is a completely different story.
 
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