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Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

Ange In or Ange Out?

  • Ange In

  • Ange Out


Results are only viewable after voting.

SaKkA.kenchiku

Well-Known Member
Sep 23, 2006
187
660
what's the point sticking to an approach that won't work?
You know already it won't work? Unless you can predict the future it is an unknown. In fact my point was most of the time we pull the it won't work trigger too early. My point is deciding now means it won't work and starting again puts us back into a position of still not knowing. Most would say that about Ferguson in his second year, luckily for United the board decided to see it out... My view remains to not change unless we are clearly in free fall. For once lets see how the third year progress in the project to actually see if it works or not... Pulling the plug hasn't worked. Only poch got close. they team when it fell away needed a rebuild and we should have given poch that time to build not jump to Jose or conte. Liverpool allowed Klopp to re build and he did ( although he got exhausted and left himself) Klopp started to rebuild the cycle of his own team and it was on an upward trajectory again of which Slot seems to be reaping the benefits of that. Again I don't know with Poch, we never do because we always decide it won't work as we do not have the bottle to do so and the board bends to the fickle nature of the fans. Just hold out and see where we go rough and smooth. unless we are free falling which we are not. Ange needs to develop his philosophy or it won't work but now is not the time to decide In my view.
 

Metalhead

But that's a debate for another thread.....
Nov 24, 2013
27,500
42,914
I think the cracks are starting to appear. Even the away support are wavering and when that happens it can go south very quickly.
There are so many factors to take on board - I do firmly feel that unless everything is aligned then we will always end up back here again and again. The thought of another coach change doesn't excite me on bit. Even if it was Pep, I'd still feel the same. The thought of another change is actually sickening because it really is obvious that the discontent would start again within a 12 month period, tops.
 

SpursSince1980

Well-Known Member
Jan 23, 2011
5,347
16,829
I’ll agree about Mourinho but no way Conte is past it. My money is on him winning Serie A this season. I think it was just a number of unfortunate events in his personal life that did for him here, the kind of thing that could only happen to spurs.
Yeah, I agree with you on Conte. I cannot recall at the time of his hiring there being a narrative about him being long in the tooth. The primary negative we heard was how he had a tendency to wear out his welcome by his second or third season, due how petulant and demanding he could be.

He is another example of a top manager from recent times who was supported up to about 65%. Another situation where the manager needed two to three key starters to make his system work against the best teams, consistently. But the two or three needed needed to be top class. Which meant spending another 150m. That wasn’t going to happen.

And he was a stubborn surly so and so too. But I laud him for speaking truth to power.
 

Cavehillspur

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
15,063
20,562
Regardless of Ange’s tactics likely being part of the issue, personnel wise we have 3-4 huge issues in the squad which will play out short term or longer term over the season:

1. Back-up GK: Forster is awful, can’t pass, is past it and if we get an injury to Vicario our results will nosedive

2. Back-up LB: Davies & Spence aren’t really the answer at a high level, they might suffice against much lesser opposition but otherwise if Udogie gets injured our results will nosedive

3. CM: we lack a true n.o6 and we lack goals from midfield. Biss is unreliable, Bentancur isn’t really a proper 6 like we’d need him to be and is going to likely get a lengthy ban, Kulu & Maddison do their best but neither are a regular goal threat and we have no-one who does 3rd man runs behind the oppositions defence

4. Lack of quality suitable wide players and attackers in general: biggest issue last, as we’ve all said all summer our biggest weakness wasn’t sufficiently addressed, we needed an Eze,Neto,Marhez,Raphinia,N.Williams,Mane,Salah,Saka type winger or 2 who can beat players 1v1 and who are a goal threat but instead we signed a now injured 19yr old and re-loaned a highly ineffective Werner, no wonder we struggle to score.

So Ange’s gung ho easy to set up against tactics, plus the above squad limitations, plus our crowd abusing our own players is a pretty bad mix.

We need to get a good solid win vs Brentford and start to build some momentum as things are a bit on a knife edge at the moment.
That pretty much sums up what our weaknesses were going into the summer transfer window too...
 

Metalhead

But that's a debate for another thread.....
Nov 24, 2013
27,500
42,914
Yeah, I agree with you on Conte. I cannot recall at the time of his hiring there being a narrative about him being long in the tooth. The primary negative we heard was how he had a tendency to wear out his welcome by his second or third season, due how petulant and demanding he could be.

He is another example of a top manager from recent times who was supported up to about 65%. Another situation where the manager needed two to three key starters to make his system work against the best teams, consistently. But the two or three needed needed to be top class. Which meant spending another 150m. That wasn’t going to happen.

And he was a stubborn surly so and so too. But I laud him for speaking truth to power.
I don't remember anyone thinking that Conte was too long in the tooth. Even with Mourinho, you'd still have thought that for our level of trophy expectation, he had an FA cup or League Cup in him. Ranieri evidently wasn't too long in the tooth at Leicester. Anyone would have taken his 'dinosaur' tactics for a league title even though everyone would have considered Poch the far more progressive coach.
 

Cambridge Spur

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2015
849
3,012
There are so many factors to take on board - I do firmly feel that unless everything is aligned then we will always end up back here again and again. The thought of another coach change doesn't excite me on bit. Even if it was Pep, I'd still feel the same. The thought of another change is actually sickening because it really is obvious that the discontent would start again within a 12 month period, tops.
I agree 100%, I’ve just seen this movie before
 

Styopa

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2014
6,798
19,531
I don't remember anyone thinking that Conte was too long in the tooth. Even with Mourinho, you'd still have thought that for our level of trophy expectation, he had an FA cup or League Cup in him. Ranieri evidently wasn't too long in the tooth at Leicester. Anyone would have taken his 'dinosaur' tactics for a league title even though everyone would have considered Poch the far more progressive coach.

Mourinho had been around for a long time but he was still only 56 when we hired him and 58 when we sacked him, whilst Conte was 52 when we hired him. Ange is 59 now.

With Mourinho, I think there was a sense that his best days were behind him. There was a bit of that with Conte too—that his tactics were out of step with a Premier League dominated by Pep and Klopp.

Even though Ange was an older appointment than both, he felt fresher because he’s never managed in the top European leagues before. Plus, his tactics are more "progressive" which gives him a more modern edge.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
23,389
58,910
There are so many factors to take on board - I do firmly feel that unless everything is aligned then we will always end up back here again and again. The thought of another coach change doesn't excite me on bit. Even if it was Pep, I'd still feel the same. The thought of another change is actually sickening because it really is obvious that the discontent would start again within a 12 month period, tops.
I’d say this is the first time that pretty much from what I can see a good 90% of our fans are fully aligned in this.

The last few coaches since Poch really split the fanbase whereas most are behind Ange or at least like him as a person and like the way he tries to play the game but acknowledge that his tactics might need some tweaking but mostly we’ve not given him the quality he needs (yet?…)

If we get to his 3rd season and next Jan and summer we don’t kick on with 2-3 top quality signings (LB,CM, 2x WF’s) and a back-up goalie and possibly a ST to replace Richarlison then nothing will change and Ange will be gone regardless of the tactics he plays.
 

Gareth88

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2017
4,733
6,935
As Conte said "I have seen the managers they have had here very good managers, they can change the manager, a lot of managers, but the situation cannot change" "Tottenham's story is this, 20 years there is the owner and they never won something but why?

He wasn't/isn't wrong!

If Ange fails we need to work on getting Levy out and making it clear we as a fanbase know that he is the constant problem not the many managers he has hired.
Love the idea won't happen Enic/Levy will never leave they may listen but unless a billionaire pays a fortune to take the club away from them it's going to be the same old story. Apologise for the bleak outlook just feeling more devoid of optimism the longer time goes on with this lot in charge.
 

Styopa

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2014
6,798
19,531
The thought of another coach change doesn't excite me on bit. Even if it was Pep, I'd still feel the same.

This really says it all. Sure, some people would be thrilled if we sacked Ange now and replaced him with someone like Pep or Klopp. But I think many of us would see it as Levy repeating the same mistake—believing he can bring in a superstar coach to wave a magic wand and fix everything.

Let us not forget, that he hired Mourinho and gave him players like Hojbjerg and Doherty to work with. He hired Conte and expected him to cobble together a title-challenging defence made up of the likes of Emerson, Lenglet, Dier and Davies.

I have zero confidence that sacking Ange would do any good in the long run. I think it would likely set us back even further. Another top coach might come in, do well at first, then inevitably become frustrated with Levy, and we’d find ourselves right back where we started.
 

NEVILLEB

Well-Known Member
Nov 6, 2006
7,027
7,104
Mourinho had been around for a long time but he was still only 56 when we hired him and 58 when we sacked him, whilst Conte was 52 when we hired him. Ange is 59 now.

With Mourinho, I think there was a sense that his best days were behind him. There was a bit of that with Conte too—that his tactics were out of step with a Premier League dominated by Pep and Klopp.

Even though Ange was an older appointment than both, he felt fresher because he’s never managed in the top European leagues before. Plus, his tactics are more "progressive" which gives him a more modern edge.

It’s never been the Managers. We recruit the wrong players.
 

spurs9

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
12,828
39,439
We went down to 10 men so the feeling was a bit different when we turned it around and Son won it late on. It showed the never die attitude. We had a bit of that in the Chelsea home game but we haven't shown that consistency we showed for that first 10 games. Here's hoping it starts to click soon and we go on a run.
Did we, why, no one was sent off?
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
23,389
58,910
This really says it all. Sure, some people would be thrilled if we sacked Ange now and replaced him with someone like Pep or Klopp. But I think many of us would see it as Levy repeating the same mistake—believing he can bring in a superstar coach to wave a magic wand and fix everything.

Let us not forget, that he hired Mourinho and gave him players like Hojbjerg and Doherty to work with. He hired Conte and expected him to cobble together a title-challenging defence made up of the likes of Emerson, Lenglet, Dier and Davies.

I have zero confidence that sacking Ange would do any good in the long run. I think it would likely set us back even further. Another top coach might come in, do well at first, then inevitably become frustrated with Levy, and we’d find ourselves right back where we started.
Nail, head. Spot on. ‘This is the reality’ as Poch used to love saying.
 

SixtyFour

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2008
333
872
It’s never been the Managers. We recruit the wrong players.
We recruit the players at the wage bracket we are willing to pay. Some play above that expectation, some below. It averages out. If we are super lucky we stumble across a young worldie (Kane, Bale) up their wages as much as we dare and keep them until they realise they will have to move to play in a team of peers.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
46,202
92,903
Thing is I like our signings in isolation. I think generally since Ange arrived most have been good. Maybe the only question is around the wide players and if they're suited to being really wide like Bale and Lennon were for Redknapp. Other than they they're very good signings. I just feel like we need to also sign those key first choice players to go with it. Poch had a lot of youth hut also the likes of Alderweireld, Lloris, Vertonghen and Dembele at the spine of the team had experience. Even Eriksen had played a lot at a young age. Our players in that experienced group are not leading the others. I like Bentancur but he's shown he doesn't have the best of heads on him. Bissouma is a bit immature as is Maddison. Romero is getting there but can have his moments of madness and not sure on his leadership. Compare those to the others under Poch and you can see there's a clear difference. Adding a couple of experienced heads in central and central attacking midfield might make a big difference. Shame we won't pay the premium for it though.
 

Styopa

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2014
6,798
19,531
We recruit the players at the wage bracket we are willing to pay. Some play above that expectation, some below. It averages out. If we are super lucky we stumble across a young worldie (Kane, Bale) up their wages as much as we dare and keep them until they realise they will have to move to play in a team of peers.

Yeah basically this. Although Kane was a bit of a unique case since he came through the ranks and spent about ten seasons with the first team. He came into his own just as it felt like we were on the verge of something special. There was also the ever-present dangling carrot of the "game-changing new stadium." Unfortunately, we ended up wasting the second half of his career here.

Most others—like Bale, Modric, Walker, and probably Romero—won't give us that much time because they don't have the same connection to the club.

Whilst we're on the subject, I still think we're paying for selling Kane and not replacing him with sufficient quality. It’s easy to overlook just how much we miss a player like him, especially since we started last season so well. It was kind of just glossed over last season because the mood around the club was so positive. But essentially we sold Kane the weekend the season started and gave Ange Maddison and Johnson in exchange.
 

Metalhead

But that's a debate for another thread.....
Nov 24, 2013
27,500
42,914
This really says it all. Sure, some people would be thrilled if we sacked Ange now and replaced him with someone like Pep or Klopp. But I think many of us would see it as Levy repeating the same mistake—believing he can bring in a superstar coach to wave a magic wand and fix everything.

Let us not forget, that he hired Mourinho and gave him players like Hojbjerg and Doherty to work with. He hired Conte and expected him to cobble together a title-challenging defence made up of the likes of Emerson, Lenglet, Dier and Davies.

I have zero confidence that sacking Ange would do any good in the long run. I think it would likely set us back even further. Another top coach might come in, do well at first, then inevitably become frustrated with Levy, and we’d find ourselves right back where we started.
I know that we're not the only ones but for some reason, we are seen as a bit of a 'joke club' in this respect. I do feel like we are in somewhat of a unique position. Too big of a club to not have expectations but in a sense, the great pretenders because we see ourselves as elite but we can't back it up with trophies and whatever anyone says about the importance of trophies - this is a competitive sport and trophies are a yardstick for success.
 

Gb160

Shit Show ticket tout
Jun 20, 2012
24,625
100,129
I have zero confidence that sacking Ange would do any good in the long run. I think it would likely set us back even further. Another top coach might come in, do well at first, then inevitably become frustrated with Levy, and we’d find ourselves right back where we started.
Bingo
Sacking Ange is just kicking the can down the road.
 
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