Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[rabbikeane]

To be honest, with how Levy runs the club we’d be better off just bringing managers through the ranks like players.

Any manager that he brings in has his own philosophy which Levy never completely buys into.

I’ll get pelters for this but if Ange goes, I’d genuinely give the job to Mason or the youth team coach.

Impossible with the expectations and frustration of our fan base.
We are the most toxic club around as the feeling is the club owe us at least 5 trophies.

People seem to forget also that this isn't just the Postcoglou build. It's a club driven identity, set by guys like Paratici and Davies, where we've decided on who we are and appointed Postecoglou because he fit it. If he goes we'll look for similar, but of course we're unlikely to get his extremities (inverted fb, super high line etc.). Next manager is supposed to be one that will like the players we've already signed.

 

[Trix]

To be honest, with how Levy runs the club we’d be better off just bringing managers through the ranks like players.

Any manager that he brings in has his own philosophy which Levy never completely buys into.

I’ll get pelters for this but if Ange goes, I’d genuinely give the job to Mason or the youth team coach.

*Daniel likes this post ££££££££

 

[Gollorius]

To be honest, with how Levy runs the club we’d be better off just bringing managers through the ranks like players.

Any manager that he brings in has his own philosophy which Levy never completely buys into.

I’ll get pelters for this but if Ange goes, I’d genuinely give the job to Mason or the youth team coach.

Came here for a laugh, I am not disappointed. Why are we talking about Ange going?!?

 

[alfie103]

To be honest, with how Levy runs the club we’d be better off just bringing managers through the ranks like players.

Any manager that he brings in has his own philosophy which Levy never completely buys into.

I’ll get pelters for this but if Ange goes, I’d genuinely give the job to Mason or the youth team coach.

Maybe we can do something to help get rid of Levy instead?

 

[Rout-Ledge]

Maybe we can do something to help get rid of Levy instead?

This is the ideal scenario. He seems to have run out of ideas / inspiration and we are now just drifting.

 

[Jaddas]

Any good manager produces a team which is better than the sum of it's parts. Yes, we have holes in our squad but can we honestly say that Ange is doing this, except for the start of last season?

 

[SUIYHA]

I've said it all the way through, I'm not so sure just how much he wanted Solankie, despite saying he'd wanted him for months. I just don't believe he was his number one choice for CF same as Odebert.

I doubt Levy would have sanctioned a deal for the most expensive transfer in the country this summer if he hadn't been first choice and if Ange wasn't banging the drum in the boardroom to get him in.

Odobert on the other hand I doubt was first choice. That was most likely Neto.

Am also pretty sure that the conversation to renew Werner's loan at the start of the summer was based on getting a body in early and for a nominal loan fee to free up transfer budget for other targets. Which would make a lot more sense than looking at Timo Werner and thinking that this is exactly what the club needs to kick on.

 

[rabbikeane]

Came here for a laugh, I am not disappointed. Why are we talking about Ange going?!?

It's in the air, even opponent manager held a defending talk of Ange and his situation.
He's at a point now where he need to deliver results, no manager at Spurs have survived longer than this with a form like this in modern time.

 

[E17yid]

Body language expert alert, he was staring into the abyss on the sidelines last night. I know that look. Hello darkness my old friend.

 

[E17yid]

Except, as I keep saying, these kind of performances in cup games are quite typical of every single one of our managers going back as far as Martin Jol. We’ve all seen this kind of performance time and time again when we rotate heavily in Europa league, or league cup or FA cup matches.

It happened all the time under Poch, Conte, Mourinho, AVB, Redknapp etc etc. Even during the peak Redknapp and Poch years, whenever we rotated heavily it was a good chance we’d see something similar to what we saw last night.

There‘s an argument (that I disagree with) that our progress has been poor this season, but people are overreacting to the last couple of games. And nobody should be using last night’s performance as a yardstick for our current state of progress under this manager.

It’s very much par for the course.

Then we just go back to the he was the one who picked the team but happy to concede we don’t have the info he does but it was very strange imo.

 

[Shanks]

All I'll say is we have 15+ players and staff members(including Ange) on the books all repped by CAA Base, and I refuse to believe it's because they are all the best options we could get for the role they have.............

This is actually pretty interesting...

Should get my lad signed up with them ;-)

 

[Ghost Hardware]

Im going to say this right now, I dont like the system, particularly inverting the full backs.

It worked initially and we had space with lots of attacking overloads.

Now teams are droppinvg ten yards back and there's no space, our full backs still inverted and its a congested nightmare which slows it all down.

It plays into the hands of the opposition knowing they can pick us off with gilt edged chances....they dont even to have to work for them with intricate play....they can just smash us on the transition with our high line. Newcastle's winner etc

The best managers at this level can, and do, adapt when required.

Ange is going to have to do this or it ends in tears.

You can still stick to your principles but evolve tactically for different situations.

I am going to be contrarian here and say I do actually like the system on the whole.

I do think there can and should be more variation to the attacking patterns but on the whole, in theory at least, I find it quite an interesting one that I can see being very effective with the right players.

But that is the problem, we don't have the right players. We don't have a single winger capable of comfortably playing on the touchline. The FB's on the whole are probably better suited to overlapping and our midfield, whilst having improved with the introduction of two 10's, will never be able to create enough to mask our weakness out wide because so much of our game plan focuses on wing play.

I think the system on paper can work with the right personnel, I just don't think we have near enough of the right personnel. Maybe in time some of the youth will become the right profile but already for a start Odebert and Yang like to come in field and do a lot of their best work drifting central with freedom. The one big plus point they have is both are strong one on one (for their age) which is not something any of our other wing options are good at so hopefully they can, in time, adjust to the role.

So whilst on paper I quite like the concept behind his tactics I can't help but feel we will continue to hit our head against a brick wall every time we come up against a team that sits deep. Which, if they have any sense, the majority of teams will do except for the likes of City and Liverpool who have enough firepower to blow us out of the water regardless how they set up.

In reality I would actually go as far as saying there are very few teams in wold football that could make these tactics work at the highest level with the players currently at their disposal. You would really need an owner willing to spend and a scouting set up of the the highest quality in order to build a squad capable of winning the Premier League or Champions League as there is very little margin for error for the entire 90 mins across the majority of positions. Whats for sure is I don't see Levy and Lange being able to build this team.

The problem is we all know Ange is incredibly stubborn. Not only does he believe, because it has worked every single time in the past, his tactics will eventually work he also doesn't seem to take into consideration that maybe the players he has at his disposal are just not capable of adapting and delivering what he wants in the strongest league in the world. At some point as a manger I think you need to take a look at the tools you have and accept that some are just not capable of being utilised in the way you want.

Its very clear he is waiting for that collective "I get it" moment and we should all be wise enough to know that it does often take a frustratingly long time to get there. Often it can get to a point where 70% to 80% of the fan base want the manager gone. So with that in mind I do think patience is needed but at the same time I feel that "I get it" moment usually comes with some tweaking. TBF to Ange bringing Kulu into the RCM role is a change that shouldn't be overlooked. To me that is a positive sign that he is still looking to get more from our attack but we all know that it isn't enough.

I think at this point the next change to make is a far more significant one than putting Kulu in at RCM which is maybe why Ange is hesitant to contemplate it at this juncture. Essentially the obvious change now is the role of the FB and allowing one or both WF to come inside instead of being required to constantly hold the width. If Ange ever gets to the point of trying this we shall see, I imagine now he is still hoping what he has at present clicks but personally i am extremely skeptical it ever will primarily due to the players.

This isn't even me saying our players are not good enough, although with certain individuals you could certainly make that argument. I just think that too many are just not suited to the role they are currently being asked to play and I really don't see that changing any time soon.

 

[thelak]

To be honest, with how Levy runs the club we’d be better off just bringing managers through the ranks like players.

Any manager that he brings in has his own philosophy which Levy never completely buys into.

I’ll get pelters for this but if Ange goes, I’d genuinely give the job to Mason or the youth team coach.

i quite like this idea

data driven approach to finding up and coming 16 year old managerial talent

Perhaps seeing how they have performed on Football Manager simulations

then can bring them through the academy so they can get coached up to understand the ENIC vision, talk about how attractive the stadium is, what a big club this is and how exciting it would be to win a trophy whilst getting comfortable with getting their 3rd choice player and selling star players because their ambition is not being fulfilled

Levy can pick the most suitable prospects for the real thing with a ready made conveyor belt if it doesn’t work out

 

[Tucker]

Then we just go back to the he was the one who picked the team but happy to concede we don’t have the info he does but it was very strange imo.

Feel like this is going around in circles. We all surely realise that there are squad considerations to be factored in. The likes of Dragusin, Davies, Werner and Sarr would have all expected game time in the cups. Especially against lower league opposition. Bregvall, Gray and Odobert too would likely have been given assurances as to how much they’d feature when they chose to sign for us.

This should be obvious, no?

 

[Trix]

I doubt Levy would have sanctioned a deal for the most expensive transfer in the country this summer if he hadn't been first choice and if Ange wasn't banging the drum in the boardroom to get him in.

Odobert on the other hand I doubt was first choice. That was most likely Neto.

Am also pretty sure that the conversation to renew Werner's loan at the start of the summer was based on getting a body in early and for a nominal loan fee to free up transfer budget for other targets. Which would make a lot more sense than looking at Timo Werner and thinking that this is exactly what the club needs to kick on.

He would if the wages and fee's were very good value, also if the payment structure was far better than the alternatives. I keep saying it but it's not all about the fee you see in the papers.

 

[BH_spurs]

Considering we’ve got two really good full backs / wing backs and very average wingers at our disposal I am surprised Ange has not even considered going with the formation he used at Australia some times 3-4-2-1.
Dragusin , Romero , VDV would be a very good back 3. Then Porro and Udogie could get up and down the wing. Leaving Son and Kulusevski to play behind Solanke in more central areas.

 

[E17yid]

Feel like this is going around in circles. We all surely realise that there are squad considerations to be factored in. The likes of Dragusin, Davies, Werner and Sarr would have all expected game time in the cups. Especially against lower league opposition. Bregvall, Gray and Odobert too would likely have been given assurances as to how much they’d feature when they chose to sign for us.

This should be obvious, no?

Yes but it’s a balancing act. Changing the entire back 5 plus others seemed to much, reminiscent of Fulham last year (which was totally understandable) but less so last night.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

Yes but it’s a balancing act. Changing the entire back 5 plus others seemed to much, reminiscent of Fulham last year (which was totally understandable) but less so last night.

Eight changes (I think) was about four too many. The disjointed nature of the performance was, IMO, directly linked. Not to mention some basic errors.

We're gonna muller Brentford

 

[For the love of Spurs]

I am going to be contrarian here and say I do actually like the system on the whole.

I do think there can and should be more variation to the attacking patterns but on the whole, in theory at least, I find it quite an interesting one that I can see being very effective with the right players.

But that is the problem, we don't have the right players. We don't have a single winger capable of comfortably playing on the touchline. The FB's on the whole are probably better suited to overlapping and our midfield, whilst having improved with the introduction of two 10's, will never be able to create enough to mask our weakness out wide because so much of our game plan focuses on wing play.

I think the system on paper can work with the right personnel, I just don't think we have near enough of the right personnel. Maybe in time some of the youth will become the right profile but already for a start Odebert and Yang like to come in field and do a lot of best work drifting central with freedom. The one big plus point they have is they are strong one on one (for their age) which is not something any of our other wing options are good at so hopefully they can, in time, adjust to the role.

So whilst on paper I quite like the concept behind his tactics I can't help but feel we will continue to hit our head against a brick wall every time we come up against a team that sit deep. Which, if they have any sense, the majority of teams will do except for the likes of City and Liverpool who have enough firepower to blow us out of the water regardless how they set up.

In reality I would actually go as far as saying there are very few teams in wold football that could make these tactics work at the highest level with the players currently at their disposal. You would really need an owner willing to spend and a scouting set up of the the highest quality in order to build a squad capable of winning the Premier League or Champions League as there is very little margin for error for the entire 90 mins across the majority of positions. Whats for sure is I don't see Levy and Lange being able to build this team.

The problem is we all know Ange is incredibly stubborn. Not only does he believe, because it has worked every single time in the past, his tactics will eventually work he also doesn't seem to take into consideration that maybe the players he has at his disposal are just not capable of adapting and delivering what he wants in the strongest league in the world. At some point as a manger I think you need to take a look at the tools you have at your disposal and accept the fact that some are just not capable of being utilised in the way you want.

Its very clear he is waiting for that collective "i get it" movement and we should all be wise enough to know that it does often take a frustratingly long time to get there. Often it can get to the point where 70% to 80% of the fan base want the manager gone. So with that in mind I do think patience is needed but at the same time I feel that "I get it" moment usually comes with some tweaking. TBF to Ange bringing Kulu into the RCM role is a change that shouldn't be overlooked. To me that is a positive sign that he is still looking to get more from our attack but we all know that it isn't enough.

I think at this point the next change to make is a far more significant one than putting Kulu in at RCM which is maybe why Ange is hesitant to contemplate it at this juncture. Essentially the obvious change now is the role of the FB and allowing one or both WF to come inside instead of being required to constantly hold the width. If Ange ever gets to the point of trying this we shall see, I imagine now he is still hoping what he has at present clicks but personally i am extremely skeptical it ever will primarily due to the players he has at his disposal.

This isn't even me saying our players are not good enough, although with certain individuals you could certainly make that argument. I just think that too many are just not suited to the role they are currently being asked to play and I really don't see that changing any time soon.

I think most systems probably work if we have the right personal. As a club though we rarely get the players that fit a manager. We aren’t that kind of club and it hurts us.

 

[Russ1201]

I wonder if the loss of Chris Davies has hit us pretty hard. Last night was really really disjointed, much worse than I can remember from last season. Even when Newcastle gave us a spanking it was more us being hit on the break.

I honestly think the coaching team isn' t experienced or good enough.
I dn't see any improvement from week to week.