Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[mil1lion]

Of course it matters….. you are up against a very high quality of player and manager who rich clubs have spent multiple millions on… and said players and managers are coaching/ playing just like ange is to stop ange and spurs.
The difference is true quality shows in this league and at the high level, you get less time, less space there’s more much tactical thought out plans to completely nullify what you are trying to do.
There’s a reason teams are able to break with pace power and speed on us and it’s because teams are training and have the player level to do so… if those other poor leagues those players won’t have any where near the pace and footballing ability to expose flaws in the system even if the opposition manager identified them… which he more likely might not have done due to the quality of manager.
I agree motivating players etc is the same skill set… we all seem to take the Micky out of arteta but look at the passion his players showed… look at his players killing themselves to track back, watch the videos of his players flooding back when they’ve been countered on them watch ours. So he’s clearly not motivating them to the same extent.
He’s in a league with some incredible managers and it’s showing but I also agree the players aren’t good enough due to failures in our scouting and ability to buy better players.
I’m not saying sack him at all, I’m merely pointing out it’s basically night and day comparing the leagues.

It's also relative to the team he manages though. You mention pace in this league for example but it's the same for the teams he managed too. So even if the opponent has less pace so does his team. Same for physicality or whatever other difference you want to apply between the leagues. He has the same limitation in his own team. You mention teams in this league with more money to spend and better teams but again he has the same with us. We've spent a lot in the last 2 years and we already had some quality before he arrived. It's not like he's brought those teams from other leagues with him to this league. We saw with Redknapp when you have better players your system just works on a higher level because you have better players. He managed teams who didn't win much with limited quality and resources and turned them into winners against others who had more. He moved to a league with better quality and resources to compete with teams who also have more. The reality is the job at Spurs is to overachieve because the expectations are to compete with the best without the best players. He's got experience of overachieving so hopefully he can do so again. Conte and Jose achieved what was to be expected with their players and yet they didn't achieve much here. So I think an underdog manager with his type of background is well worth backing and giving time for.

 

[E17yid]

There's a big difference between being a fan and being a supporter.

Nah, in common parlance it means the same thing.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

That's the wrong season, we won the league cup in 07/08 not 08/09. We got back to the final in 08/09 but lost on penalties.

Ah well close enough squad was pretty similar

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Absolutely love Ange’s attitude on winning with us.

Such a start contrast to say Conte.

I just hope in Jan and next summer we can get Ange some game changing attacking players and I hope he can tweak his tactics a bit if needed if the same type of matches keep playing out.

I think he can be successful with us and he’s almost the perfect manager for us, his style of play is direct in-line with our club motto ‘To Dare is to Do’ but pretty much no team ever has won things whilst conceding goals almost every single game, and I also just worry that the quality of players Ange has especially in attack just aren’t good enough.

That being said the longer we keep Ange and this squad together the better they should all get especially the younger ones.

Let’s hope we get a good win tonight and start to build some momentum.

Postecoglou: I dream about ending Tottenham trophy drought

Spurs boss tonight takes his squad to Coventry in Carabao Cup

www.standard.co.uk

 

[Ribble]

Ah well close enough squad was pretty similar

It really wasn't. Even just going through your picks there was no Cudicini, no Palacios, Benny missed the entire season with injury, no Modric, Townsend was still in the u18s & Bale was still only a skinny LB with a terrible track record.

Edit: I forgot that Defoe was gone by then too, he'd left for Pompey in January 08.

 

[muppetman]

Of course it matters….. you are up against a very high quality of player and manager who rich clubs have spent multiple millions on… and said players and managers are coaching/ playing just like ange is to stop ange and spurs.
The difference is true quality shows in this league and at the high level, you get less time, less space there’s more much tactical thought out plans to completely nullify what you are trying to do.
There’s a reason teams are able to break with pace power and speed on us and it’s because teams are training and have the player level to do so… if those other poor leagues those players won’t have any where near the pace and footballing ability to expose flaws in the system even if the opposition manager identified them… which he more likely might not have done due to the quality of manager.
I agree motivating players etc is the same skill set… we all seem to take the Micky out of arteta but look at the passion his players showed… look at his players killing themselves to track back, watch the videos of his players flooding back when they’ve been countered on them watch ours. So he’s clearly not motivating them to the same extent.
He’s in a league with some incredible managers and it’s showing but I also agree the players aren’t good enough due to failures in our scouting and ability to buy better players.
I’m not saying sack him at all, I’m merely pointing out it’s basically night and day comparing the leagues.

But we've also got better players to counter that with - it's not like we are Halifax Town playing against ManC - we are chock full of international players as well. all things are relative. Now if Ange had to play his Brisbane Roar side in the PL then I think you'd have a point.

Also, as for the tactical thought argument - Arteta's tactical masterplan was to get 11 men behind the ball as quickly as possible, keep the pitch very small and win from a set piece - I bet they've never considered such magic in the hinterlands of Japan and Australia.

 

[rabbikeane]

Rocha? Are you taking the piss mate?

above Romero even ..

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

But we've also got better players to counter that with - it's not like we are Halifax Town playing against ManC - we are chock full of international players as well. all things are relative. Now if Ange had to play his Brisbane Roar side in the PL then I think you'd have a point.

Also, as for the tactical thought argument - Arteta's tactical masterplan was to get 11 men behind the ball as quickly as possible, keep the pitch very small and win from a set piece - I bet they've never considered such magic in the hinterlands of Japan and Australia.

I wouldn’t say all things are relative as in this case the PL is a huge step up from all 3 of those leagues in terms of coaching, tactics and quality.

At the time when Ange managed in the A-league he was probably the best and most tactically astute manager with one of the best squads, in Japan again probably the best manager tactically, in Scotland he had by far the best squad only one other team came close, in the PL he’s maybe arguably approximately the 6th best manager tactically and just generally and he has about the 6th best squad, also the quality throughout the league is higher and the best 2 teams are better whereas again in the 3 clubs and leagues he managed in previously that wasn’t the case.

None of this is to say that he can’t be successful here, I just don’t agree that it’s directly relative or comparable.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Rocha? Are you taking the piss mate?

Read the post properly. It was based on realistic overall squad / back-ups, given Davies is back-up LB, the Q would be Rocha or basically no-one as we don’t even have another 4th choice CB.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

above Romero even ..

Read the post properly. “(picking first XI and back-ups not best combination as that is unrealistic)”

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Yeah it wasn't great. Only time it's been decent was the conte 3-0 but that was an 8pm kick off so everyone was well on it, arsenal were rattled that night.

Anything before 4pm ko is never a decent atmosphere.

I’ve been to plenty of NLD’s at the old WHL with earlier kick offs which were absolutely rocking tbh.

I don’t think the new stadium has a very good atmosphere for the most part there is very little singing, especially when we aren’t winning

 

[djhotspur]

It does seem there are some good tactical tweaks this season, there are still more needed to utilise our players in this system. I do just hope it clicks soon and we start scoring, you see it with a few teams where their new system takes some time to bed in and then it all clicks and they really kick into gear, we see it with city a lot and arsenal were the same last season.
Just gotta hope our players stop taking the wrong options and can just shoot quicker.

 

[muppetman]

I wouldn’t say all things are relative as in this case the PL is a huge step up from all 3 of those leagues in terms of coaching, tactics and quality.

At the time when Ange managed in the A-league he was probably the best and most tactically astute manager with one of the best squads, in Japan again probably the best manager tactically, in Scotland he had by far the best squad only one other team came close, in the PL he’s maybe arguably approximately the 6th best manager tactically and just generally and he has about the 6th best squad, also the quality throughout the league is higher and the best 2 teams are better whereas again in the 3 clubs and leagues he managed in previously that wasn’t the case.

None of this is to say that he can’t be successful here, I just don’t agree that it’s directly relative or comparable.

I think "probably" is doing a LOT of heavy lifting here. I'm sure someone posted earlier that before he arrived none of the teams bar maybe Celtic had shone. He got Australia to win a competition which they'd been nowhere near doing. I'd also like to know where the ranking is for "tactically astute managers" to see how he came in at 6th - if nothing else he managed to come 5th last season!

I'm also clearly not explaining myself well - I'm not saying that the Aussie league is on par with the PL. I'm saying the job he did then is relative to what he now has to do - take an unfancied team that aren't on the same level as their competitors and get them to win. He now has access to PL players, coaching staff and facilities - just as he had access to Japanese players, coaching staff and facilities as his competitors then.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Read the post properly. It was based on realistic overall squad / back-ups, given Davies is back-up LB, the Q would be Rocha or basically no-one as we don’t even have another 4th choice CB.

I go for no one. Rocha was one of the worst signings we’ve ever made as a club.

 

[west indie]

Olliec the 3rd transfer window has just closed for Ange, he is still yet to embed the new players into his side we need to give him the time to do his job

 

[muppetman]

I go for no one. Rocha was one of the worst signings we’ve ever made as a club.

He can't be as most of the current squad are apparently all 3 legged donkeys!!!!

 

[Trix]

But we've also got better players to counter that with - it's not like we are Halifax Town playing against ManC - we are chock full of international players as well. all things are relative. Now if Ange had to play his Brisbane Roar side in the PL then I think you'd have a point.

Also, as for the tactical thought argument - Arteta's tactical masterplan was to get 11 men behind the ball as quickly as possible, keep the pitch very small and win from a set piece - I bet they've never considered such magic in the hinterlands of Japan and Australia.

The difference is the higher the standard the less room you have for error. Every team in the Prem has at least 6 or 7 players capable of hitting accurate enough passes to really put us in trouble in transition. That number would be less and less as the quality dropped.

 

[muppetman]

The difference is the higher the standard the less room you have for error. Every team in the Prem has at least 6 or 7 players capable of hitting accurate enough passes to really put us in trouble in transition. That number would be less and less as the quality dropped.

Not every team in the Prem as I'm not sure we have 6 or 7 who could!

I still think we'd have better defenders and athletes to cover ground but I accept that this is an argument I'm not going to win with many, so will stop derailing the whole thread.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I think "probably" is doing a LOT of heavy lifting here. I'm sure someone posted earlier that before he arrived none of the teams bar maybe Celtic had shone. He got Australia to win a competition which they'd been nowhere near doing. I'd also like to know where the ranking is for "tactically astute managers" to see how he came in at 6th - if nothing else he managed to come 5th last season!

I'm also clearly not explaining myself well - I'm not saying that the Aussie league is on par with the PL. I'm saying the job he did then is relative to what he now has to do - take an unfancied team that aren't on the same level as their competitors and get them to win. He now has access to PL players, coaching staff and facilities - just as he had access to Japanese players, coaching staff and facilities as his competitors then.

Ok yea I get what you’re saying, completely good and fair points mate.

I like Ange and want him to succeed and think he could and needs time, I’m just being honest with my view that the PL is a huge step up and so far we are seeing that tactically since game 10 last season Ange is fairly regularly getting out coached and/or the players he has aren’t good enough to create and score enough chances so we are losing games as a result.

As for current PL manager rankings id go something like:
1. Pep
2. Emery
3. Arteta
4. Slot (Klopp last year would’ve ranked 2)
5. Howe
6. Ten Haag/Ange

Then you have managers like Thomas Frank & Nuno who suit the clubs they’re at, the Brighton manager looks promising but very early days and Maresca could be good.

That is my opinion on it.

 

[Styopa]

Not every team in the Prem as I'm not sure we have 6 or 7 who could!

I still think we'd have better defenders and athletes to cover ground but I accept that this is an argument I'm not going to win with many, so will stop derailing the whole thread.

If the tactics are sound and we have the players to execute them properly, we should start seeing results before long. So, time will tell. Right now, though, I’m leaning toward the idea that we might be a few players short of fully succeeding with the way Ange wants us to play.

I think this is where the "time" argument comes into play. Most of us are hoping that, with a few more transfer windows and as some of the younger players develop, Ange will eventually have the squad he needs to fully realise his vision. A lot can happen between now and then, of course. But that's the hope.