Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[Pellshek]

Alex Ferguson finished 11th in his second season. He'd likely have been out the door had he not won a cup. After all, before then he'd only ever coached in a second-tier league.

I don't have any particular infatuation with Ange, but I absolutely will not support him being sacked at any point this season. Christmas 16 months is my timescale for judgement.

Although, that is always kind of a dumb thing to say, because if we're bottom 3 at Christmas, or if he clearly loses the dressing room, or if we spaff 5 to Wrexham in the Cup at home, or if he rocks up at WHL in a MAGA cap, you don't survive that kind of thing. But assuming no such insanity, let it ride.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Surely whatever league you manage at you have to manage that level of player and make them winners regardless. So the quality in Australia or Japan or Scotland doesn't really matter because every manager in those leagues are managing that standard of football against each other. What Ange does is manage what he has and transform them into his image. That's actually a lot harder the lower the quality of player. All the better league means is you have to manage everything at the next level. However it's not just the opponent that's better but also the quality of your own players is better too so there's a knock on effect. He's managing a bigger club with tougher opponents using better players of his own with far better facilities to work with.

Great post and to an extent it is relative but I wouldn’t say exactly relative as the weaker teams in the A-League, Japan and Scotland are a lot weaker than the weaker teams in England PL and so the fact he has better players at Tottenham isn’t enough to outweigh the increase in quality across the rest of the league, also the teams at the top are way better and further ahead.

It’s not that relative as the PL isn’t really comparable at all to those 3 leagues whereas those 3 leagues are somewhat comparable to each other.

This doesn’t mean Ange can’t and won’t be successful for us but it does mean it’ll be a damn sight harder for him to win with us vs those other teams.

Let’s hope we get a good win tomorrow evening and kick on from there.

 

[rabbikeane]

Alex Ferguson finished 11th in his second season. He'd likely have been out the door had he not won a cup. After all, before then he'd only ever coached in a second-tier league.

Reasonable to expect the same from Ange to save his job, he always win in second season after all.

 

[McFlash]

Reasonable to expect the same from Ange to save his job, he always win in second season after all.

To save his job?!
Is he fighting for his job already?

Fuck me sideways!

 

[rabbikeane]

To save his job?!
Is he fighting for his job already?

Fuck me sideways!

He won't survive the season if the form since November continues.
And he has a run of games now that will put a lot of heat on him if fail, Coventry, Brentford, Qarabag.

 

[McFlash]

He won't survive the season if the form since November continues.
And he has a run of games now that will put a lot of heat on him if fail, Coventry, Brentford, Qarabag.

IF.
Do you think we'll lose those three games?
Granted, no game is easy but I've not seen anything yet this season that makes me expect to lose to those sides.

 

[rabbikeane]

IF.
Do you think we'll lose those three games?

No, but it show he hasn't too much to go on at the moment. He needs results now.

 

[olliec]

He’s had 4 transfer windows to get the players in that he’s wanted. If he’s truly satisfied with the squad now then he doesn’t have anymore excuses. If he’s not turning fortunes around by Christmas and we are struggling to score still then I can’t see any alternative for him. It’s clearly not worked for him in the PL and it might be seen as one step too high than what he’s used to. Let’s see, but for now I am Ange in.

 

[ajspurs]

I would certainly still persist with him. I really do think our defence would be shown up less if we had a potent attack. We still play good football even with all that we lack in our first 11, and I think most managers would really struggle with the blunt attack that we have.

I personally don't think it would be a case of getting a new manager in, the defence tightening up, the attackers starting to score all whilst we're still playing good flowing football, there will be compromises somewhere, and there will certainly be new things to moan about to take the place of the things we're moaning about now.

At least now I think the areas that need addressing that can see us progress in the right manner are clear to see, as the foundations to our play are there and settled. Like I and others have said, I think the biggest issue is whether we're willing to appropriately address those areas of concern, and that's unfortunately a massive question mark.

 

[superted4]

He’s had 4 windows to get the players in that he’s wanted. If he’s truly satisfied with the squad now then he doesn’t have anymore excuses. If he’s not turning fortunes around by Christmas and we are struggling to score still then I can’t see any alternative for him. It’s clearly not worked for him in the PL and it might be seen as one step too high than what he’s used to. Let’s see, but for now I am Ange in.

4 windows???

 

[HildoSpur]

Some of you lot depress the hell out of me

 

[Metalhead]

He’s had 4 windows to get the players in that he’s wanted. If he’s truly satisfied with the squad now then he doesn’t have anymore excuses. If he’s not turning fortunes around by Christmas and we are struggling to score still then I can’t see any alternative for him. It’s clearly not worked for him in the PL and it might be seen as one step too high than what he’s used to. Let’s see, but for now I am Ange in.

I breathed a sigh of relief for Ange when I read the last sentence.

 

[philll]

A good bit about Brennan and now suddenly Ange sometimes doesn't win until his third year...

 

[Styopa]

Alex Ferguson finished 11th in his second season. He'd likely have been out the door had he not won a cup. After all, before then he'd only ever coached in a second-tier league.

Yes, although those were different times. Between 1945 and 1986, Manchester United had seven permanent managers, an average tenure of approximately 5.86 years per manager. Since Sir Alex Ferguson left in 2013, the club has appointed five permanent managers, giving an average tenure of 2.2 years in the job.

We appointed 8 permanent managers in the 41 years between 1945 and 1986. But in the 11 years since Ferguson left, we have appointed 5 permanent managers, or 6 including Sherwood.

 

[allatsea]

Some of you lot depress the hell out of me

Agree and it is why I largely ignore this Forum of SC. So sad and so little support for the Club/Team

 

[chas vs dave]

Y

Yes, since the A-League formed in 2005, Brisbane Roar have won the league 3 times and Ange won 2 of them. Yokohama hadn't won the league in 18 years when Ange won it with them.

Dont forget that wenger couldnt win the j league

 

[Styopa]

IF.
Do you think we'll lose those three games?
Granted, no game is easy but I've not seen anything yet this season that makes me expect to lose to those sides.

I’d be shocked if we lost the next three matches. It would mean 10 losses in our last 15 games, which is the kind of form Luton and Burnley showed last season. But as you say, nothing we have seen so far indicates we should expect to lose those matches.

Most of our losses this calendar year, with only a couple of exceptions, have come against teams that are better or arguably better than us: Newcastle (twice), Arsenal (twice), Chelsea, Liverpool, and Manchester City. The exceptions are Wolves and Fulham.

There's some concern that if we make too many changes tonight, we could get caught out. After that, we face a potentially tricky and frustrating home game against Brentford. But I can't see us losing three in a row, especially with Qarabag coming up after Brentford.

I’m hoping for the opposite—that we use these matches to regain our mojo. Hopefully, Solanke can get on the scoresheet, players like Maddison rediscover their peak form, and someone like Gray or Bergvall impresses and pushes for a spot in the starting lineup for the league games.

 

[muppetman]

Really impressed how many of you have watched so much Aussie and Japanese football over the last few years, I don't know where you find the time.

 

[Styopa]

Really impressed how many of you have watched so much Aussie and Japanese football over the last few years, I don't know where you find the time.

Yeah, we shouldn't downplay Ange's achievements in leagues that many of us aren’t familiar with, as the principles and processes he uses are likely applicable across all levels and leagues—it’s the same sport, after all.

At the same time, do I think the overall calibre of coaching, tactical awareness, and expertise is generally higher in the Premier League than in the top tiers of Australian and Japanese football? Honestly, yes, I do make that assumption. I could be completely wrong, just like I could be wrong about many things I take for granted, like the theory of evolution, which I don’t have special expertise in.

But I think it’s a fairly safe assumption that the Premier League, which attracts some of the best coaches globally—such as Ange himself—likely has a higher standard of coaching than most other leagues. There are many reasons for this, such as global reputation. It consistently attracts top talent, including players, coaches, and staff, from around the world. And the fact the Premier League has significantly more financial resources than most other leagues. With bigger budgets, Premier League clubs can afford to recruit the most accomplished coaches from across the world, which, presumably, raises the overall standard of coaching.

I’m open to revising my assumption if presented with compelling evidence to the contrary, of course.

 

[muppetman]

Yeah, we shouldn't downplay Ange's achievements in leagues that many of us aren’t familiar with, as the principles and processes he uses are likely applicable across all levels and leagues—it’s the same sport, after all.

At the same time, do I think the overall calibre of coaching, tactical awareness, and expertise is generally higher in the Premier League than in the top tiers of Australian and Japanese football? Honestly, yes, I do make that assumption. I could be completely wrong, just like I could be wrong about many things I take for granted, like the theory of evolution, which I don’t have special expertise in.

But I think it’s a fairly safe assumption that the Premier League, which attracts some of the best coaches globally—such as Ange himself—likely has a higher standard of coaching than most other leagues. There are many reasons for this, such as global reputation. It consistently attracts top talent, including players, coaches, and staff, from around the world. And the fact the Premier League has significantly more financial resources than most other leagues. With bigger budgets, Premier League clubs can afford to recruit the most accomplished coaches from across the world, which, presumably, raises the overall standard of coaching.

I’m open to revising my assumption if presented with compelling evidence to the contrary, of course.

I think the PL may have a higher calibre of coaching than the Australian or Japanese league, but it's the assumption that it's also superior to the "farmer's leagues" of France, Germany, Spain and Italy that I often question.

I think we place too much emphasis on tactics and coaching, when I think a lot of it is actually motivating players, rather than being some tactical guru that unlocks teams. Motivating teams and getting them to be more than the sum of their parts is probably a highly relevant skill for a Spurs manager.

As ever, I'd love to see what Pep or Klopp could do with Halifax Town - when the genuinely elite players are removed, how much of their superior tactics allows them to shine and how much of their success is actually down to better players (and squads of players) than almost everyone they come up against.