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Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

Ange In or Ange Out?

  • Ange In

  • Ange Out


Results are only viewable after voting.

Impspur1

Well-Known Member
May 8, 2014
4,093
9,732
Well, I probably sit in the minority here but I don't think we were as bad as some people are suggesting and I don't think it's (as a whole) that bad either. If the general consensus is that we're a work in progress and that there'll be frustration and bad results along the way, then why are people getting so militant when that is what is happening?

Again, probably minority view, but if we can just find that combination that makes it click, we'll have a fucking awesome team and I genuinely don't think we're that far off.
👏
 

Goobers

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
2,655
4,505
Well, I probably sit in the minority here but I don't think we were as bad as some people are suggesting and I don't think it's (as a whole) that bad either. If the general consensus is that we're a work in progress and that there'll be frustration and bad results along the way, then why are people getting so militant when that is what is happening?

Again, probably minority view, but if we can just find that combination that makes it click, we'll have a fucking awesome team and I genuinely don't think we're that far off.
And I am holding onto this. Very much. Today bloody hurts. But I really do want to believe and think that I actually do believe what you have just articulated. Must have the balls for the pain when we are in development. But also happy and think it is well worthy of criticism.
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
22,660
373,099
Well, I probably sit in the minority here but I don't think we were as bad as some people are suggesting and I don't think it's (as a whole) that bad either. If the general consensus is that we're a work in progress and that there'll be frustration and bad results along the way, then why are people getting so militant when that is what is happening?

Again, probably minority view, but if we can just find that combination that makes it click, we'll have a fucking awesome team and I genuinely don't think we're that far off.
The problem for me is that this is more than ups and downs. It's the same issues every week even when we get a positive result. It's so reminiscent of Contes final year in that he seems to be in complete denial that it could be his system and philosophy might not work in this league. In the same way as Jose and Conte he keeps referring to what he's done before as evidence it will work with us. It might, and I'm certainly not calling for his head yet, but it's the same issues every week. Teams are setting up against us exactly the same every week. The press conferences that follow when asked about the problems are the same every week.

Top managers are always adjusting, always tweaking and always evolving. I get the point of keep pushing the narrative until the players fully get it, but I believe this is now costing us. The pundits, the media, an ever growing number of fans can see there is a huge problem with how we defend certain scenarios. I don't see Pep pushing the exact same tactic if it's a problem every other manager knows he can exploit. He tweaks it and then when it's ready he tweaks it back to what he wants, he doesn't persist in it being an issue week in week out.
 

arunspurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
9,707
39,764
Well, the kids will come good, I'm sure. But that will certainly take time.
Kids need opportunity. Today , we should have atleast brought on Bergvall in final 15 minutes. What good is another forward like Werner when there is no midfield. Son dropping down to midfield was hardly going to work

I hope he get the games now and push likes of Maddison.
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
22,032
33,431
my feeling is, as we have gone with a data led approach, he's been given a top 5 player list for each position within our budget of course.

BUT some of those picks are still too expensive for us (Neto), and we wait on them for too long so we have to drop to 3rd or 4th options that are probably just okay, they can do the job from time to time but not at the level required.

Or we sign a younger one who has shown small glimpses.

Secondly, there's probably a big balancing act going on too.

Neto AND Eze? Nope, you can only choose one.

So Ange chooses one but we are too slow.

We don't shop in that elite level technical ability bin.

Nor do we shop in that the next elite level technical ability bin.

We shop in that this player COULD be the next elite level one so instead of spending an extra 10-20m on one who is, we'll buy this one and hope they go up a level.

Quite a few of us in here were desperately crying out for more technical capable players.

Deki is technical but also heavy which can negate it.

Johnson can only play well in straight lines.

Udogie looks like he'd suit the wide area better as he often makes a poor touch coming inside.

Son has never been a tight space operator.

Odobert looks like he has something.

Werner ...please.

Richy. Again, another who is more of an area presence.

Bergvall and Gray do definitely have that technical ability but they are not going to be at their peak for a few years yet.

We should have pushed the boat out on Eze seen as we are now playing Maddison and Deki together
I zone out on the transfer nonsense mostly over the summer, but if those were the priority targets then doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

Pedro Neto I've never been that high on, and to my eye test has always looked more like a counter-attacking dribbler/ball carrier who needs space to attack. I think there are question marks about his effectiveness against bus parkers and where his space is condensed. Be interesting to see how he does at Chelsea.

Eze I'd have considered a puzzling signing. He isn't a winger, he is a left half-space player. The same as Maddison. People can argue competition for places/squad depth, but Maddison is clearly an integral part of the team so a big signing on someone who wants to play the same role I don't see the logic. Really a player for the other side in the centre/right channel, maybe a left footer like Kulu/Lo Celso, I could have understood.

I agree with the gist about who we target etc. and that they seem to have to have certain strings attached. Certain wage level, mustn't do all the transfer budget on it, the club have to deem it a good opportunity/bargain, working with certain agents, etc etc etc.

I would say as well I don't think we have to target elite players/talents, but skillsets more akin to the football we want to play would help I suspect, even if it's only a short term solution. Kyogo and Hatate for example at Celtic, two lovely footballers who would know the tactics immediately and would have been gettable you imagine. Even if after a year or so they weren't quite good enough for very top tier PL and you looked to upgrade, I suspect they might have helped bed in the style and provided some needed attributes. Marcus Edwards is another, I don't personally think he would be good enough ultimately and doesn't work very hard, but then neither do a lot of our attacking players. He'd be a free hit for us as a cheap HG player and he would give us characteristics we don't have and can play 1v1 and beat opponents easily. At least having some erratic threat and ability for some wing play, rather than fuck all, on the right flank would have been something at least short term. They're just examples, I'm sure people could give other ones, and fans seem to sniff at signings for the sake of signings, but sometimes you need to fill a hole with characteristics you need.

Those limitations from above don't help, but I'm not liking at all our work in Talent ID and who we're getting and going after. That might be Ange, it might be the recruitment staff, but it needs to be a lot better.
 

Trent Crimm

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2021
4,881
12,789
When players get to Spurs they see it as a big chill Imo. We get players that generally come from lower than us in the league clubs or finds from overseas that someone has dug up. They get to almost certainly double their salary and that’s part of the issue, it’s almost levy quota filling. Great training, lovely stadium, if we lose it’s an apology and we go again and if we win we are world beaters.

far to easy at spurs.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
37,157
97,322
When players get to Spurs they see it as a big chill Imo. We get players that generally come from lower than us in the league clubs or finds from overseas that someone has dug up. They get to almost certainly double their salary and that’s part of the issue, it’s almost levy quota filling. Great training, lovely stadium, if we lose it’s an apology and we go again and if we win we are world beaters.

far to easy at spurs.
Genuine question, why is it different at Spurs than other top 6 clubs?

Every player making a step up is getting a salary increase and nicer facilities.
 

McFlash

Without doubt the dumbest & most clueless member.
Oct 19, 2005
15,472
59,304
Well, I probably sit in the minority here but I don't think we were as bad as some people are suggesting and I don't think it's (as a whole) that bad either. If the general consensus is that we're a work in progress and that there'll be frustration and bad results along the way, then why are people getting so militant when that is what is happening?

Again, probably minority view, but if we can just find that combination that makes it click, we'll have a fucking awesome team and I genuinely don't think we're that far off.
I had to listen to the game on the radio today because I was at work but from what I heard, along with what I saw in the first three games, I'm sat in that minority with you.

I'm far from panic stations yet, I'm actually still quite confident that we'll have a good season and this somewhat frustrating start will help.
 

Misfit

President of The Niles Crane Fanclub
May 7, 2006
22,623
40,360
Thank fuck the long weeks/international breaks are in the rear view for a few months. We need games and rhythm etc. Especially for the supporters.
 

jolsnogross

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2005
4,213
6,612
3 wins from 11 in the league is rubbish form. Without a bit of an upturn, that type of fact will be more noticeable in the coming weeks when Ange talks of progress but the win stats are abysmal.

It'll be quite a ballsy call from him if he makes 5-6 changes or more vs Coventry. It seems important that we win that one, because we're stuck in reverse results-wise at the moment. Winning needs to start mattering to the clowns on the field.
 

Metalhead

But that's a debate for another thread.....
Nov 24, 2013
27,493
42,902
The problem for me is that this is more than ups and downs. It's the same issues every week even when we get a positive result. It's so reminiscent of Contes final year in that he seems to be in complete denial that it could be his system and philosophy might not work in this league. In the same way as Jose and Conte he keeps referring to what he's done before as evidence it will work with us. It might, and I'm certainly not calling for his head yet, but it's the same issues every week. Teams are setting up against us exactly the same every week. The press conferences that follow when asked about the problems are the same every week.

Top managers are always adjusting, always tweaking and always evolving. I get the point of keep pushing the narrative until the players fully get it, but I believe this is now costing us. The pundits, the media, an ever growing number of fans can see there is a huge problem with how we defend certain scenarios. I don't see Pep pushing the exact same tactic if it's a problem every other manager knows he can exploit. He tweaks it and then when it's ready he tweaks it back to what he wants, he doesn't persist in it being an issue week in week out.
Thing is that if people want Ange modified then it’s not Ange. This conversation has been going on for months and people said ages ago that this is what Ange does and at this stage of his career, he isn’t going to change. It’s a take it or leave it scenario until such time as Levy wants to leave it.
 

Doctor Dinkey

Legacy Fan
Jul 6, 2013
3,919
9,549
i'm not doing the 18 months new manager dance again, for me ange gets the four years we signed him up to barring a total collapse.
I'm Ange in- I can't see any alternative- but the facts are that the trajectory of the last 32 games places us around 9th or 10th. Unless results improve, to give us at least a chance of getting European football, Ange will be dispensed with, I'm afraid.
 

McFlash

Without doubt the dumbest & most clueless member.
Oct 19, 2005
15,472
59,304
Depends. Did Ange want him or did the club/stats want him? If it's the latter then I don't mind.
Mate, he's one of the brightest young talents, everyone wanted him.
He'll get his time soon but no manager is going to throw in a youngster straight in over the experienced internationals in the squad.
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
22,660
373,099
When players get to Spurs they see it as a big chill Imo. We get players that generally come from lower than us in the league clubs or finds from overseas that someone has dug up. They get to almost certainly double their salary and that’s part of the issue, it’s almost levy quota filling. Great training, lovely stadium, if we lose it’s an apology and we go again and if we win we are world beaters.

far to easy at spurs.
I don't believe that. I don't think it's a lack of effort, or the players don't want to win, and despite how negative I've been as far as my posts, I don't think we are a million miles away.

I just want to see a couple of things addressed, and a few tweaks in how we set up.
 

Strikeb4ck

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2010
4,598
9,794
The problem for me is that this is more than ups and downs. It's the same issues every week even when we get a positive result. It's so reminiscent of Contes final year in that he seems to be in complete denial that it could be his system and philosophy might not work in this league. In the same way as Jose and Conte he keeps referring to what he's done before as evidence it will work with us. It might, and I'm certainly not calling for his head yet, but it's the same issues every week. Teams are setting up against us exactly the same every week. The press conferences that follow when asked about the problems are the same every week.

Top managers are always adjusting, always tweaking and always evolving. I get the point of keep pushing the narrative until the players fully get it, but I believe this is now costing us. The pundits, the media, an ever growing number of fans can see there is a huge problem with how we defend certain scenarios. I don't see Pep pushing the exact same tactic if it's a problem every other manager knows he can exploit. He tweaks it and then when it's ready he tweaks it back to what he wants, he doesn't persist in it being an issue week in week out.
Yep. It's really concerning. He ends up forcing things that aren't there because it's the one style he knows.
 
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