Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[Donki]

That was a bad performance, not in the traditional sense, but we didn't trouble them at all. They didn't even have to defend particularly well. They were just well organized.

Did they trouble us? See when u think u have it pause, look at it from their point of view. A set piece, from an individual error.

 

[bubble07]

I still have the faith but think we have individual players that are good enough so this has to change

 

[13VanDerBale13]

It’s been said over and over again but there’s a common theme here, and that’s not changing anytime soon….

 

[philll]

Arteta was backed by the club. You can tell Ange is not being 100% backed in the same way.

We just need to hope the kids come good, otherwise he is screwed.

While we should've done more in the Summer window, I still think it's too easy to say Ange isn't being backed. It undeservedly shifts the blame away from him. There are issues that have been plaguing this team since February and he hasn't shown an indication that he even wants to address them, let alone demonstrate that he's capable of doing so.

Even in today's press conference after the game he bristled at the suggestion that we have a problem with set pieces, saying yet again that they're part of the bigger picture etc (which he's been saying since February). If improving set pieces prevents us throwing points away for fun, why would he not embrace that? It's just infuriatingly stubborn on his part and it's going to cost him.

 

[rossdapep]

Thought twice about posting, but lets go for it.

Not angry, not surprised. To me this is all inevitable, and it threatens to be a long season.

Tactics are a side issue at this point, you can quibble about what Ange could/should do, adapt, mix it up, go to plan B, whatever. It would be nice to be able to try and carry out plan A somewhat optimally first. Lets get it right, the crux of the problem is that this isn't a particularly great squad, especially for the football it purports to want to play, and recruitment over the summer was shockingly hubristic in tackling the issues.

It's one thing the fans sitting around the campfire all summer smoking the hopium and chanting everything is great, but seems those at the club have been taking that approach also. Honestly, I was astounded over the summer and what we were doing. No one has issues about bringing in young players and getting ahead of the curve, I've advocated that many times myself over the years, but to just sign a bunch of teenagers and signalling we'll just vibe it out on the promise we'll build a great team for 3-5 years time seems delusional to me.

The squad and team is not good enough. The goalkeeper is getting found out. Defenders aren't reliable. Midfield too inconsistent. Wingers are tragic. And forward line is overpriced and hardly inspires. I keep seeing posts along the lines of "we're dominating, we'll be great when we start taking some chances!". Lads, that's the point though. Why would you have any faith in any of these suddenly becoming players who exhibit smart decision making and then executing a pass/cross/shot on a consistent basis? Some we have years of evidence of them not doing that, why would it happen now?

Sorry, but some of you are borderline delusional in your faith in some of these jokers. Take Maddison and Kulu for instance, out of many, squad players at best if you want to reach the top. They ain't taking us there. Why do we need to see any more of the likes of Johnson, Sarr, etc? They might be young, but they're not going to magically discover footballing ability.

I've said it time, and time, and time again now, go look through my post history if you want, if you want to play super intricate football you need technical footballers. Apparently not us though. We've made decisions I fundamentally disagree with across the park; keeper, defence, midfield, wingers, forwards. Everywhere.

I don't know whether it is Ange's fault. If he's sanctioned all/most of these deals since his arrival then quite frankly I think he is a fucking idiot, if not and these players have been given to him then he's been totally shafted. What I do know is that he is really going to have earn his corn to find the solutions with what is available to him and not have this season just meander along tepidly. He'll be the one that carries the can if he can't, grand plans to have a great team in a few years time or not.

Much work ahead.

my feeling is, as we have gone with a data led approach, he's been given a top 5 player list for each position within our budget of course.

BUT some of those picks are still too expensive for us (Neto), and we wait on them for too long so we have to drop to 3rd or 4th options that are probably just okay, they can do the job from time to time but not at the level required.

Or we sign a younger one who has shown small glimpses.

Secondly, there's probably a big balancing act going on too.

Neto AND Eze? Nope, you can only choose one.

So Ange chooses one but we are too slow.

We don't shop in that elite level technical ability bin.

Nor do we shop in that the next elite level technical ability bin.

We shop in that this player COULD be the next elite level one so instead of spending an extra 10-20m on one who is, we'll buy this one and hope they go up a level.

Quite a few of us in here were desperately crying out for more technical capable players.

Deki is technical but also heavy which can negate it.

Johnson can only play well in straight lines.

Udogie looks like he'd suit the wide area better as he often makes a poor touch coming inside.

Son has never been a tight space operator.

Odobert looks like he has something.

Werner ...please.

Richy. Again, another who is more of an area presence.

Bergvall and Gray do definitely have that technical ability but they are not going to be at their peak for a few years yet.

We should have pushed the boat out on Eze seen as we are now playing Maddison and Deki together

 

[arunspurs]

Did they trouble us? See when u think u have it pause, look at it from their point of view. A set piece, from an individual error.

Its not that they didnt trouble us...its that they didnt have to trouble us to win today.

Arsenal didnt have to play in their 3rd gear. All they had to do was wait for us to make a mistake...they surrendered the ball to us, knowing we cant hurt them if they stayed in shape.

 

[matty74]

The midfield is the problem we have many options but no top class players in these positions

 

[Dillspur]

Did they trouble us? See when u think u have it pause, look at it from their point of view. A set piece, from an individual error.

Not sure I understand your point? WE didn't trouble them, at all.

 

[Dougal]

The midfield is the problem we have many options but no top class players in these positions

The size of squads and options from the bench has been a disaster for football as far as I can see.

 

[Styopa]

3 wins in last 11 games (Burnley, sheff utd and Everton) is frightening

And only 10 points from our last 11 games—that’s close to relegation form. However, we did face a lot of tough matches during that stretch.

A more accurate reflection is the 44 points we've picked up from the last 32 matches since the first ten games of last season. That’s nearly a full season, and if you project it over a 38-game campaign, it would give us about 52 points, the same as West Ham last season. I think that’s a fair assessment of where we are right now. But with a bit of better form pushing the likes of Man U and Newcastle, depending on how their seasons go.

 

[Chimbo!]

This isn’t about Ange not being backed. Our poor start is because we’ve lost 2 tightly contested games. Our Xg against Newcastle and Arsenal was virtually the same in both matches. The difference in both matches were the finest margins. Yes, there are things to improve but they are details and it takes time to correct those, and some of it is down to luck. If this continues for 15-20 games, then we know we have a more serious problem. But until then, we need to calm down. It’s just a run of 4 games so far.

 

[Donki]

Its not that they didnt trouble us...its that they have to trouble us to win today.

Arsenal didnt have to play in their 3rd gear. All they had to do was wait for us to make a mistake...they surrendered the ball to us, knowing we cant hurt them if they stayed in shape.

Ur aren’t making sense, they played for a draw at best, scored from a corner. Artery doesn’t usually play that way, u call it tactics nouse, we tried to play the game, they got a set piece? We had a couple of clear chances, and yes we should have taken them, but that’s not on Ange that’s on the players, even their goal was a Romero mind fart. This isn’t a clear cut science it’s football, what’s pissing me off is people saying this is like Jose/Conte, if you can honestly say that with a straight face I suggest u haven’t actually watched much football.

 

[mil1lion]

Arteta was backed by the club. You can tell Ange is not being 100% backed in the same way.

We just need to hope the kids come good, otherwise he is screwed.

Not so sure about that. Arteta wasn't signed top players. He was signed young prospects just like we have. Maybe with Rice 4 years into the build was the exception. Other than that nothing they did is beyond what we've been doing really. Their big money spend on White was along the lines of Johnson or Solanke. Others were unknown quantities people wasn't sure would turn out to be top players.

 

[arunspurs]

Ur aren’t making sense, they played for a draw at best, scored from a corner. Artery doesn’t usually play that way, u call it tactics nouse, we tried to play the game, they got a set piece? We had a couple of clear chances, and yes we should have taken them, but that’s not on Ange that’s on the players, even their goal was a Romero mind fart. This isn’t a clear cut science it’s football, what’s pissing me off is people saying this is like Jose/Conte, if you can honestly say that with a straight face I suggest u haven’t actually watched much football.

I guess you are still not seeing the picture. Let me try again.... like others have done with you here

Arsenal came into game with most of their main midfield missing. Their bench had 6 18 or 19 yr olds. Only recognized was Jesus & Sterling.

So, OFCOURSE, they are going to be keeping it tight... Only, it was also same game plan they had to play anyway against us. Its not rocket science. They did what they set up to do. They changed the way they play- Only had 36% possession but they were in control of that game. Dont think for a sec they were under huge pressure.

We walked into their plan, and couldnt do anything.

Goal may have been a mistake but larger point is, Arsenal just had to wait for that 1 mistake -whether it came at 64th minute or 85 th minute

 

[Monkey boy]

Did they trouble us? See when u think u have it pause, look at it from their point of view. A set piece, from an individual error.

I only saw the first half but Martenelli should have done a whole lot better when through 1 on 1 in yet an example of one or two simple passes from opposition that leads to a player clean through on goal. Someone here said it lately but it’s so true, we have to work extremely hard to create a decent chance but the opposition have to do so very little to get theirs.

 

[NEVILLEB]

The midfield is the problem we have many options but no top class players in these positions

Can’t believe we didn’t buy a top class defensive midfielder this summer.

Ridiculous

 

[Donki]

Their plan was to score from a defensive mistake from our defender? We had chances our players didn’t take them. This was no master stroke from Arteta, who I actually rate very highly, but they weren’t playing for a win, they were playing not to get beaten. Good tactics for sure but that why we had to push on, which we did. You make it out we were playing against a Sunday league team.

 

[Dougal]

I like Ange’s mentality but I think it’s just too deep for the players and a lot of fans and the media to get their heads around. Footballers aren’t the brightest bunch. Keep it simple and you’ll probably get a tune out of them.

 

[Donki]

I only saw the first half but Martenelli should have done a whole lot better when through 1 on 1 in yet an example of one or two simple passes from opposition that leads to a player clean through on goal. Someone here said it lately but it’s so true, we have to work extremely hard to create a decent chance but the opposition have to do so very little to get theirs.

Their chance wasn’t a creation though it was shit play from out individual player, it seems some people think they continuously carved us open, they sure as shit didn’t.

 

[waresy]

Obviously I’d like it if we were great for the entire season, but if I had to chose, I’d rather we started this season off slowly and made a few adjustments and ended strong. I hope once the busy period of the season starts we will start to see the squad utilised more and maybe we will see more of the younger players given a chance.
Ange isn’t stupid. He will figure this out and take us forward.

The learning has to happen in this period to then set the foundation. Last season's start is hurting us now (and the end of last season too).
Let's hope he does figure it out, if he does there will be casualties along the way which means there will be someone that comes through and puts a 'senior' players nose out of joint.
It has to happen otherwise we will be mid table