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Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

Mannnos

Well-Known Member
Jun 27, 2018
58
455
And yet somethings stay the same. Yes set pieces have been worked on been saying the same for weeks, but the absolute principles stay the same, and that is where most of us have our concerns. Very very few are suggesting replacing him and the vast majority will give him time as long as we continue to see area's of improvement. In fact the only "narrative" I can see right now is the one you are painting that the fans are slowly turning on him, it's a very small number regardless of how vocal they are. Don't confuse valid criticism with turning on him, or actively wanting him to be replaced.
Probably said multiple times, but EVERY job Ange has had, the fans complained about the same stuff going back to his Brisbane Roar days & it ALWAYS got worked out & was successful.

I personally don't even see the point of having "concerns" right now. I know Ange knows what he is doing, so I trust that he will sort them out in due time, somehow I think a premier league coach probably knows/sees more than what I/we do in here.

We also aren't competing right now for anything (maybe a cup). We are playing good football this season & by & large I have enjoyed that a lot even if I am annoyed after losing. Im looking 2-3 seasons down the line, when these young guys have matured & developed, pep is hopefully gone, maybe the arsenal cycle is over & our current crop of players are entering a new phase where they could start pushing for a title.

This is all just how I feel, I hope Ange is here for a long time & we give him time & patience (& eventual backing) like Arteta. I would still want us to keep Ange if we finished 10th this season. Im sick of the manager chopping & love how we play currently.
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
21,588
356,551
Probably said multiple times, but EVERY job Ange has had, the fans complained about the same stuff going back to his Brisbane Roar days & it ALWAYS got worked out & was successful.

I personally don't even see the point of having "concerns" right now. I know Ange knows what he is doing, so I trust that he will sort them out in due time, somehow I think a premier league coach probably knows/sees more than what I/we do in here.

We also aren't competing right now for anything (maybe a cup). We are playing good football this season & by & large I have enjoyed that a lot even if I am annoyed after losing. Im looking 2-3 seasons down the line, when these young guys have matured & developed, pep is hopefully gone, maybe the arsenal cycle is over & our current crop of players are entering a new phase where they could start pushing for a title.

This is all just how I feel, I hope Ange is here for a long time & we give him time & patience (& eventual backing) like Arteta. I would still want us to keep Ange if we finished 10th this season. Im sick of the manager chopping & love how we play currently.
Yeah I'll just point out that both Jose and Conte won everywhere they went too(in much tougher leagues). Of course I hope it does work out as you say, but Spurs and the Premier league is not Brisbane Roar or Celtic. This is a completely different level so I can't share the blind optimism I'm afraid. I'm hopeful but nothing more than that at this stage.
 

Mannnos

Well-Known Member
Jun 27, 2018
58
455
Yeah I'll just point out that both Jose and Conte won everywhere they went too(in much tougher leagues). Of course I hope it does work out as you say, but Spurs and the Premier league is not Brisbane Roar or Celtic. This is a completely different level so I can't share the blind optimism I'm afraid. I'm hopeful but nothing more than that at this stage.
I agree with that, but those 2 also came in as a last ditch with a squad that was well and truly on its way out combined with poor recruitment. I wonder if they had been manager of the prime poch squad, would they would have got better results.

Ive also not seen anything that shows Ange is out of his depth or doesn't belong in the premier league, I guess time will tell more on that in the future. Im also realistic that it's pretty well impossible for spurs to win the league with the current status quo. So my blind optimism is hope we make champions league relatively consistently & hope we eventually win a cup, both of which I think Ange can do.
 

tcyrus

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2006
1,710
844
Probably said multiple times, but EVERY job Ange has had, the fans complained about the same stuff going back to his Brisbane Roar days & it ALWAYS got worked out & was successful.

I personally don't even see the point of having "concerns" right now. I know Ange knows what he is doing, so I trust that he will sort them out in due time, somehow I think a premier league coach probably knows/sees more than what I/we do in here.

We also aren't competing right now for anything (maybe a cup). We are playing good football this season & by & large I have enjoyed that a lot even if I am annoyed after losing. Im looking 2-3 seasons down the line, when these young guys have matured & developed, pep is hopefully gone, maybe the arsenal cycle is over & our current crop of players are entering a new phase where they could start pushing for a title.

This is all just how I feel, I hope Ange is here for a long time & we give him time & patience (& eventual backing) like Arteta. I would still want us to keep Ange if we finished 10th this season. Im sick of the manager chopping & love how we play currently.
are you kidding me ?
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
21,588
356,551
I agree with that, but those 2 also came in as a last ditch with a squad that was well and truly on its way out combined with poor recruitment. I wonder if they had been manager of the prime poch squad, would they would have got better results.

Ive also not seen anything that shows Ange is out of his depth or doesn't belong in the premier league, I guess time will tell more on that in the future. Im also realistic that it's pretty well impossible for spurs to win the league with the current status quo. So my blind optimism is hope we make champions league relatively consistently & hope we eventually win a cup, both of which I think Ange can do.
I don't think there are many saying that. Every top coach that has come to the Prem has had to adjust and tweak their tried and tested in order to gain success in England's top league though,even Pep and Klopp have had to keep evolving their systems. Ange no question will need to make adjustments himself. That's all we are saying. If it isn't working then tweak it until it does, not abandon his principles altogether.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
44,578
86,410
I think he is adjusting a bit by trying Kulusevski with Maddison but the injury to Solanke hasn't helped. Otherwise he may go that direction and not push his fullbacks so far forward. I do think if you have 2 attacking midfielders you really don't need them to attack so much. Like Barca playing Pedri and Olmo together gives 2 attacking midfielders, 2 wingers and a centre forward. Then you allow the odd defender to roam forward and keep 3 back with a 6 in midfield. I think that would give us better balance.
 

thebenjamin

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2008
13,143
42,967
I don't think there are many saying that. Every top coach that has come to the Prem has had to adjust and tweak their tried and tested in order to gain success in England's top league though,even Pep and Klopp have had to keep evolving their systems. Ange no question will need to make adjustments himself. That's all we are saying. If it isn't working then tweak it until it does, not abandon his principles altogether.

But as far as I know this isn't a system he uses everywhere. Pretty sure he's had a different system at every club he's been at.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
21,758
54,223
But as far as I know this isn't a system he uses everywhere. Pretty sure he's had a different system at every club he's been at.
This is the exact same way he played at Celtic and similar to Yokahoma.

It’s been his MO for a while now and aside from a brief time with the national side playing a back 3, Ange has pretty much always been a 4-3-3 man.
 

Gilzeanking

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2005
6,260
5,326
Valid criticism is fine. My concern is that this negativity has started so early in the season, only 3 matches in, when we've only lost 1.
Good points in the post, but I can't agree that opinions are forming just on this season's performances.

Last season is not totally forgotten including the unstable final sequence. We are looking for summer break improvements and it is fair to express 'concern' if someone feels they aren't showing enough.
 

C1w8

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2011
744
1,423
Good points in the post, but I can't agree that opinions are forming just on this season's performances.

Last season is not totally forgotten including the unstable final sequence. We are looking for summer break improvements and it is fair to express 'concern' if someone feels they aren't showing enough.

Last seasons performance shouldnt carry enough weight to warrant significant concern though.

We're 14-15 months in right now. Second half of last season we were 6-10 months in. These are really short periods of time to draw conclusions on at the start of a project and why fans (ours and wider) are considered impatient.

For me in that short start i'm just looking for shoots of hope to be optimistic about, and to look forward to watching the team each week. Right now we have both imo, despite there being a lot that could be fixed.
 

Styopa

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2014
6,509
18,204
Last seasons performance shouldnt carry enough weight to warrant significant concern though.

We're 14-15 months in right now. Second half of last season we were 6-10 months in. These are really short periods of time to draw conclusions on at the start of a project and why fans (ours and wider) are considered impatient.

For me in that short start i'm just looking for shoots of hope to be optimistic about, and to look forward to watching the team each week. Right now we have both imo, despite there being a lot that could be fixed.

Fair points, but I think what some posters are saying is that recent disappointments shouldn’t be seen in isolation or dismissed as mere bad luck.

We should acknowledge and celebrate the things we’re doing well, as they reflect progress and positive changes since Ange become coach. But we should apply a similar level of scrutiny to the areas where we’re not performing as well. Disappointments and shortcomings should be evaluated within the context of our overall development, not just as isolated incidents.

I agree with you about the timescales and it being too soon to draw major conclusions- but again it could be argued that this work both ways. We are definitely more enjoyable to watch now though!
 

C1w8

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2011
744
1,423
Fair points, but I think what some posters are saying is that recent disappointments shouldn’t be seen in isolation or dismissed as mere bad luck.

We should acknowledge and celebrate the things we’re doing well, as they reflect progress and positive changes since Ange become coach. But we should apply a similar level of scrutiny to the areas where we’re not performing as well. Disappointments and shortcomings should be evaluated within the context of our overall development, not just as isolated incidents.

I agree with you about the timescales and it being too soon to draw major conclusions- but again it could be argued that this work both ways. We are definitely more enjoyable to watch now though!

Can only speak for myself but im not dismissing the issues we have as bad luck, but teething pains, because as a project this team is still in its infancy.

Equally im not nailed on saying we will be where we want to be in 3 years time, in the end the Ange tenure might not be as successful as hoped.

We've stepped in the right direction vs where we were as a team and a club when he took over, which is a reasonable return one season in.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
44,578
86,410
Still feels too early in the season to draw too many conclusions. Players aren't even up to full speed and new signings still settling in.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
21,758
54,223
I've been thinking about this and I think some on here are guilty of using too much 'absolute' language when it comes to Ange.

The way I see it is that we have made small improvements in a lot of areas of our performances in the 3 matches so far this season and if we carry on that trajectory and can just take a few more of our chances and restrict teams to a few less big chances then we would be capable of going on a very good run of results.

Tweaks and continual improvement is needed, nothing more, nothing less imo.
 

tevezito

In the cup for Tottingham
Jun 8, 2004
1,063
1,875
I've been thinking about this and I think some on here are guilty of using too much 'absolute' language when it comes to Ange.

The way I see it is that we have made small improvements in a lot of areas of our performances in the 3 matches so far this season and if we carry on that trajectory and can just take a few more of our chances and restrict teams to a few less big chances then we would be capable of going on a very good run of results.

Tweaks and continual improvement is needed, nothing more, nothing less imo.
I also wonder if some, if not a lot of the more negative reaction has been fed somewhat by Ange's reaction to the Newcastle winner? To a wisened Spurs fan, it looked like the first sign of him succumbing to the knowledge that Tottenham will (eventually) defeat him, rather than him win at Tottenham. But he was probably just frustrated at that move coming off perfectly on the back of us having ten that we cocked up one way or another. Fine margins and not so fine body language interpretations :confused:.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
21,758
54,223
I also wonder if some, if not a lot of the more negative reaction has been fed somewhat by Ange's reaction to the Newcastle winner? To a wisened Spurs fan, it looked like the first sign of him succumbing to the knowledge that Tottenham will (eventually) defeat him, rather than him win at Tottenham. But he was probably just frustrated at that move coming off perfectly on the back of us having ten that we cocked up one way or another. Fine margins and not so fine body language interpretations :confused:.
Ange is a very confident man with huge self-belief, we might not win with him but he will keep believing until the end that he can and we will and that is the perfect attitude for us to have in a manager to break through our current club culture that Levy has created over the last 30 years.

I personally think your comment is a stretch and not true at all, he was likely just frustrated that we didn't take our chances and then we conceded a poor goal defensively, but I don't think he has or will lose belief, the squad is being shaped and carved to suit what he wants and needs, it might take some time for us to get consistently right up there under him but I certainly don't see us going backwards and/or him losing faith, he's not that kind of person.
 

tevezito

In the cup for Tottingham
Jun 8, 2004
1,063
1,875
Ange is a very confident man with huge self-belief, we might not win with him but he will keep believing until the end that he can and we will and that is the perfect attitude for us to have in a manager to break through our current club culture that Levy has created over the last 30 years.

I personally think your comment is a stretch and not true at all, he was likely just frustrated that we didn't take our chances and then we conceded a poor goal defensively, but I don't think he has or will lose belief, the squad is being shaped and carved to suit what he wants and needs, it might take some time for us to get consistently right up there under him but I certainly don't see us going backwards and/or him losing faith, he's not that kind of person.
Oh I completely agree with you, I was talking about (pessimistic / cynical) wisened Spurs fans in general, not me myself. Personally I'm a wisened (old) Spurs fan who has complete faith in Ange sticking to his ways and succeeding, even with us and ( as you agree) his body langauge was just the frustration of us not taking our chances and being stung by one.

And, yes, his attitude (stubbornness even, if some want to call it that) is exactly what this club needs and what breeds a winner's mentality, which is the thing we've most clearly been lacking for so long.
 

Goobers

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
2,409
3,951
Really looki bff forward to this next period and some regularity of fixtures to see how this side really shapes up and as a squad how we rotate and manage them. I think it's going to ha a fascinating period. Hopefully with some good results and staying competitive in and staying in thr league cup.
 

Spud6n6p

Well-Known Member
Nov 28, 2019
47
277
I agree. I believe one reason Poch's team declined was that as the squad aged, they couldn't press with the same intensity as they did earlier in his tenure. Poch adjusted our playing style to compensate for this, but in doing so, we began to lose our identity, which ultimately made us a weaker team.

Expecting Ange to fundamentally alter his style of play would go against the very reasons we brought him in. While he can certainly make adjustments, like improving set pieces, drastically changing his core principles would be a sign of desperation. If that were the case, we might as well hire a coach with a completely different approach.

I think it comes back to the fact that we didn't do enough during this window to expect more than incremental improvements. That said, a fully in-form Solanke could potentially make a difference to the frontline. Last season, we generally looked much better when Richy was on the pitch.
 

Styopa

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2014
6,509
18,204
I've been thinking about this and I think some on here are guilty of using too much 'absolute' language when it comes to Ange.

The way I see it is that we have made small improvements in a lot of areas of our performances in the 3 matches so far this season and if we carry on that trajectory and can just take a few more of our chances and restrict teams to a few less big chances then we would be capable of going on a very good run of results.

Tweaks and continual improvement is needed, nothing more, nothing less imo.

I agree. These days, we tend to view coaches in more absolute terms—Pep has his system, Klopp has his, and so on. I don’t think this mindset was as prevalent 15 years ago, especially in British football. While there were outliers like Wenger, many coaches back then could still be generally described as favouring either attacking or defensive play, and there was more flexibility within those labels.

This shift may reflect a growing tactical complexity and awareness among both coaches and fans, but I think it also encourages us to think in terms of more rigid systems, which leads us to more absolute language. And we tend to analyse the matches through this prism.
 
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