Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[Styopa]

I don't think we've sacked managers for not getting top 4 though. We've sacked them when they lost the locker room or performances were on a constant down spiral. I think if Ange keeps the players on side and we don't go into a complete nosedive for a period he'll be fine.

Yeah, fair point. I guess it depends on what counts as a nosedive though and when the nosedive comes.

For example, we have obtained 10 points from our last 10 ten matches, which i’m sure the club are ok with given the stage of the project.

But for context, Jol obtained 7 points in his final ten.

Redknapp obtained 16 points in his final ten.

I appreciate there were other factors with these sackings but you often hear about things like dressing room problems when a team is struggling.

You’re right though, it’s maybe not as simple as just sacking a coach for not reaching the top four- and we have sacked coaches who made the top four the previous season, including every coach who ever taken us to the top four, Redknapp, Poch and Conte!

I think not qualifying for the Champions League can be a factor. But maybe we would be happy to persevere for several seasons without it.

 

[SUIYHA]

Yeah, fair point. I guess it depends on what counts as a nosedive though and when the nosedive comes.

For example, we have obtained 10 points from our last 10 ten matches, which i’m sure the club are ok with given the stage of the project.

But for context, Jol obtained 7 points in his final ten.

Redknapp obtained 16 points in his final ten.

I appreciate there were other factors with these sackings but you often hear about things like dressing room problems when a team is struggling.

You’re right though, it’s maybe not as simple as just sacking a coach for not reaching the top four- and we have sacked coaches who made the top four the previous season. But I think it can be a factor.

Other than Mourinho where there are plenty of conspiracy stories - sackings have pretty much always come because there was another manager that Levy had identified and wanted to bring in - usually confirming them a day or so later. Even with Mourinho I think he expected to get Nagelsmann only for the Bayern job to also become vacant.

Sacked Jol to bring in Ramos
Sacked Ramos to bring in Redknapp
Sacked Poch to bring in Mourinho
Sacked Nuno to bring in Conte

Only AVB was sacked mid-season without an immediate successor lined up - which I think was because the first choice (Van Gaal) wasn't available until after the World Cup.

So as always, the only reason to sack a manager is if there is somebody better out there who could be doing a better job. Are there any standout candidates? Potter? Tuchel? Dare I say it...Pochettino? All ex-Chelsea ****s which I'm sick of appointing (although funnily enough I do think Poch would be good for our young squad even though he clearly has a ceiling).

 

[Hotspur33]

Other than Mourinho where there are plenty of conspiracy stories - sackings have pretty much always come because there was another manager that Levy had identified and wanted to bring in - usually confirming them a day or so later. Even with Mourinho I think he expected to get Nagelsmann only for the Bayern job to also become vacant.

Sacked Jol to bring in Ramos
Sacked Ramos to bring in Redknapp
Sacked Poch to bring in Mourinho
Sacked Nuno to bring in Conte

Only AVB was sacked mid-season without an immediate successor lined up - which I think was because the first choice (Van Gaal) wasn't available until after the World Cup.

So as always, the only reason to sack a manager is if there is somebody better out there who could be doing a better job. Are there any standout candidates? Potter? Tuchel? Dare I say it...Pochettino? All ex-Chelsea ****s which I'm sick of appointing (although funnily enough I do think Poch would be good for our young squad even though he clearly has a ceiling).

Poch not available right now though.
But I think a lot of Ange’s fate lies in the hands of the fans. If the fans are happy or at least not calling for him to be sacked, I think he will be fine.
Also, there is no longer an established top 4. At present there are maybe 6-8 teams all believing that they are in the hunt to finish 4th. It is unreasonable to sack 1 of the 8 managers purely for failing to finish 4th.

 

[thebenjamin]

Yeah, fair point. I guess it depends on what counts as a nosedive though and when the nosedive comes.

For example, we have obtained 10 points from our last 10 ten matches, which i’m sure the club are ok with given the stage of the project.

But for context, Jol obtained 7 points in his final ten.

Redknapp obtained 16 points in his final ten.

I appreciate there were other factors with these sackings but you often hear about things like dressing room problems when a team is struggling.

You’re right though, it’s maybe not as simple as just sacking a coach for not reaching the top four- and we have sacked coaches who made the top four the previous season, including every coach who ever taken us to the top four, Redknapp, Poch and Conte!

I think not qualifying for the Champions League can be a factor. But maybe we would be happy to persevere for several seasons without it.

Tbh we've been consistently very average for 5+ years now. The blips were the good form. The blips were a beginning of season run under Mourinho, an end of season run under Conte and Ange's first 10 games. Other than that we've been very ordinary going back to Poch's last season.

 

[Trent Crimm]

I think I'm still fairly unengaged with Spurs, and football in particular. I catch the games when I can, but its not effecting my bearing like it used to. I'm patient enough to just take it as it comes, but I've seen the cycle too many times over the last 30 odd years.

Yeah. Same for me. If the games weren’t on early for me in the US I doubt I’d bother. Shame really.

 

[RJR1949]

Yeah. Same for me. If the games weren’t on early for me in the US I doubt I’d bother. Shame really.

I went to the Lane when Spurs were relegated and played in the old second division.

I get a lot of pleasure out of going to the games (and am encouraged by how the team is developing).

But maybe I’d feel different if I wasn’t lucky enough to get to the games.

 

[Gassin's finest]

I went to the Lane when Spurs were relegated and played in the old second division.

I get a lot of pleasure out of going to the games (and am encouraged by how the team is developing).

But maybe I’d feel different if I wasn’t lucky enough to get to the games.

I gave up my season ticket in Conte's last season. Otherwise I've been going to the matches since I moved down in 2009. The Lane was someplace special.

But I just don't feel I get enough out of it for all the cost and travelling I have to do for it now.

 

[Albertbarich]

A major reason why I have no time for ENIC and most of modern football is that I’ve been completely priced out. I love Tottenham but this current incarnation feels so distant to me.

Even to watch them on the tlele I have to go down a route I’d rather not but from what was a working class sport when I was a kid it’s been taken by rich people and abused into a money making machine.

One of the reasons I love Ange is that he comes across as a good man, passionate about football and doesn’t entertain fools which means he would likely think I’m a prick if I spoke about football with him, but he is down to earth in a way that draws me to him as a leader. I modern football I can’t think of anyone else I’d rather represent the club because often I’m clutching desperately at straws to find something I actually like about the modern day incarnation of the club and most top level football to be fair

 

[Gassin's finest]

A major reason why I have no time for ENIC and most of modern football is that I’ve been completely priced out. I love Tottenham but this current incarnation feels so distant to me.

Even to watch them on the tlele I have to go down a route I’d rather not but from what was a working class sport when I was a kid it’s been taken by rich people and abused into a money making machine.

One of the reasons I love Ange is that he comes across as a good man, passionate about football and doesn’t entertain fools which means he would likely think I’m a prick if I spoke about football with him, but he is down to earth in a way that draws me to him as a leader. I modern football I can’t think of anyone else I’d rather represent the club because often I’m clutching desperately at straws to find something I actually like about the modern day incarnation of the club and most top level football to be fair

All of that stuff is down in the lower leagues still. I much prefer following Scunny and local teams.

 

[Trent Crimm]

I went to the Lane when Spurs were relegated and played in the old second division.

I get a lot of pleasure out of going to the games (and am encouraged by how the team is developing).

But maybe I’d feel different if I wasn’t lucky enough to get to the games.

Used to go all the time pre new stadium. Used to be a great day out. Now tho it just feels like a transaction not enjoyment.

plus to get to a game these days it’s a 5k mile journey on the gulfstream and presidential motorcade

 

[beats1]

I feel like im suffering PTSD, we literally make the same mistake all the time to Europe. STICKY THIS POST

We play a first 11 that's too strong, who are disinterested and trying to save legs. This results in the other teams getting points due to them pressing and performing better than us. Which results in more often than not, us scrapping through the group stage having played a strong team every week. Then come knockouts and we get our pants pulled down as we struggle with legs and our pressing has dwindled

Then the opposite is when we play disinterested fringe players with youth players. This leads to us more often than not getting knock out. But we do get a long term benefit for players it helps break through to the first team like Townsend, Kane and etc.

We never strike the balance.

Players like VDV, Maddison, Udogie and even Son, would need load management so that they don't miss a large chunk of the season.

Anyway, I hope come end of the season we won't run out of steam once again

 

[NEVILLEB]

My understanding is that they are not supposed to be playing as wingbacks, they are supposed to be inverted full backs, mving inside to overload the midfield rather than getting down the touchline. Congestion in wide forward positions should not be a consequence of the tactical approach. Whether Porro and Udogie are best suited to that role is another matter. I suspect that we will increasingly see midfielders used in these roles.

Yeah my point was that they were bought as wing backs i believe to fit a back 5.

Not sure they’re defensively minded enough to play in a 4 when the my don’t have much help from the players infront of them.

Minor point but thought i’d make it.

 

[mil1lion]

I feel like im suffering PTSD, we literally make the same mistake all the time to Europe. STICKY THIS POST

We play a first 11 that's too strong, who are disinterested and trying to save legs. This results in the other teams getting points due to them pressing and performing better than us. Which results in more often than not, us scrapping through the group stage having played a strong team every week. Then come knockouts and we get our pants pulled down as we struggle with legs and our pressing has dwindled

Then the opposite is when we play disinterested fringe players with youth players. This leads to us more often than not getting knock out. But we do get a long term benefit for players it helps break through to the first team like Townsend, Kane and etc.

We never strike the balance.

Players like VDV, Maddison, Udogie and even Son, would need load management so that they don't miss a large chunk of the season.

Anyway, I hope come end of the season we won't run out of steam once again

I think that remains to be seen. We're also listing a fair share of young players and the likes of Moore and Lankshear would be selected in the b list. The reality is that the squad for Europe is generally going to account for most of the squad for the league. We've also juggled CL and done well in the league before under Poch. We should be capable of that again. I hope we go strong in Europe with just a couple youngsters so to give us the best chance to actually win. We've been poor in Europe since the CL final because the first team is much changed and players don't look to be on the same page.

 

[Monkey boy]

For me, I don't think winning any of the domestic cups or the Europa League or Europa Conference League are unrealistic given the resources we have available.

in the past few years alone both Rangers and West Ham have reached the final and semi final of the Europa league. If they can do it then we have zero excuses.

 

[Fidget]

That's not how it works around here. Other teams signed players = they've strengthened. We signed players = no change.

Far, far, far too early for this. Let’s see come November.

 

[Fidget]

For me Ange scores over Mourinho and Conte in two important respects. The first obviously, is that I enjoy watching us play football again. The second, which is perhaps more relevant to the preceding pages of discussion, is that he seems to have a strategy for improving the squad based on developing players rather than persuading Levy to shell out wheelbarrow loads of cash for players who are the finished article to fit his system. To me his strategy appears more realistic, more sustainable and likely to deliver some degree of success. Trying to play with the big boys when you are not there yet, at best is a recipe for undershooting and at worst gets you broke with a squad made up of over-priced dross.

Totally with you here! Hounding a manager who has us playing entertaining football is just a waste of space for all of us. Rinse and repeat nonsense.

 

[NEVILLEB]

For me, the main problem is the ownership aren't really worried about the cups, the league is priority for them and the managers are told this and then act accordingly or pay the consequences. Now it isn't solely the fault of ENIC why we haven't won any trophies as managers and players also need to take responsibility but if ENIC took winning the domestic cups or non-CL European competitions as seriously as getting into the top 4, I have no doubt we would have won more than 1 trophy when they have been owners.

For me everything starts at the top.

This long without a trophy indicates poor decision making there.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

For me everything starts at the top.

This long without a trophy indicates poor decision making there.

maybe, but I also think prioritising the league is probably right as it relates to long term success

 

[Ron Burgundy]

For me Ange scores over Mourinho and Conte in two important respects. The first obviously, is that I enjoy watching us play football again. The second, which is perhaps more relevant to the preceding pages of discussion, is that he seems to have a strategy for improving the squad based on developing players rather than persuading Levy to shell out wheelbarrow loads of cash for players who are the finished article to fit his system. To me his strategy appears more realistic, more sustainable and likely to deliver some degree of success. Trying to play with the big boys when you are not there yet, at best is a recipe for undershooting and at worst gets you broke with a squad made up of over-priced dross.

Totally agree with this. Spot on. He’s a really good fit for manager in that respect.

Now if he could be a bit more open minded on styles of play….

 

[Metalhead]

maybe, but I also think prioritising the league is probably right as it relates to long term success

The temptation to make a stab at the Europa League must be high, given the reward of both a trophy and a CL qualification (I assume that the latter is still the case this season?)