Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[RuskyM]

Some have quite rightly stated we have signed youth and we don't make signings of the quality of Bale, Modric, Dembele etc, however, Bale, Modric, Dembele and others were not the quality of Bale, Modric and Dembele when they first signed. Who knows, the likes of Odobert, Gray and Bergvall could reach those levels.

I would also suggest that many of the league's best players (Foden, Silva, Saka, Rodri, Odegaard, Guimaraes, Palmer, Saliba, Salah, Sonny) were not seen as the league's best players when they were signed.

I think it's about as likely to have a big signing succeed (Grealish, Van Dijk, De Bruyne) as you are to be underwhelmed (Fernandez, Pogba, Maguire) or for them to be borderline disastrous (Pepe, Antony, Lukaku, Sancho).

 

[jakuba]

Thing is what we need now is out and out first team upgrades. No more squad players. Hard to get established quality in January, if indeed we have any intention of shopping in that market.

Agree totally - if it’s a Danjuma/Saha/Nelsen then a waste of time and money.

But of our last 3 January windows we’ve signed Werner, Porro, Danjuma, Kulusevski and Bentancur. Only Danjuma of those 5 didn’t go on to make regular first team contributions and Werner’s usefulness or lack thereof has been done to death. But by and large we have been only signing players to contribute to the first team.

If we can improve on the team in January within reason. Then I think/hope there’s a good chance on recent windows that we will and hopefully that can help us improve our chances of achieving whatever we’re in a position to achieve in January whatever that may be.

 

[Styopa]

For me, I don't think winning any of the domestic cups or the Europa League or Europa Conference League are unrealistic given the resources we have available.

Maybe it’s not unrealistic, but none of our coaches since 2001 have won any cups, with the exception of Ramos. In relative terms, they mostly had similar resources to work with.

If we keep appointing coaches and labeling them failures for not winning a trophy, then we either need to question who's responsible for making these repeated "failed" appointments or admit it's not just about the coaches. Either way, it would be unfair to say Ange has failed if he doesn’t win a cup this season without also holding his predecessors—or those who hired them—accountable for the same.

 

[mil1lion]

For me, I don't think winning any of the domestic cups or the Europa League or Europa Conference League are unrealistic given the resources we have available.

Not unrealistic but not an underachievement if we don't win one. Domestic cups favorites will be City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea and Utd ahead of us. We should compete with the last 2 but they have won titles so have the edge. Utd also in the Europa but we should be up there with the likes of Roma, Athletic Club, Lyon and Ajax. One thing for sure is we shouldn't be getting knocked out by lesser teams. Like knocked out of the Fa Cup by City is understandable but not Fulham in the Carabao. That's been the biggest disappointment in the cups going out to teams we should beat. We should have the squad for it now but even then the squad players are still young and raw so will slip up at times.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Poor Kulusevski!

didn’t even do that on purpose just forgot to include my favourite player Deki he can go into the AM section as a squad option

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I'm on this opinion since the early Pochettino days: to seriously challenge for the league, we must first develop the most crucial attribute for player to have —a winning mentality, something we've clearly been lacking. Pochettino's tenure showed us the significance of this mindset on several occasions. The formula is simple: start winning trophies. That’s why I’ve always believed that winning a cup is far more important than finishing 3rd to 7th in the league. Given the talent in our squad, Ange should be aiming for a cup win this season—anything less in my eyes would be underachieving. For me, a cup win is worth more than a 4th-place finish, and failing to deliver at least a SF should signal the end of Ange's tenure in my opinion.

I think it’s a catch 22, winning breed confidence, winning brings experience of winning and more success can follow but we need to build a strong platform in teams of the now and the future otherwise winning the odd Carabao Cup won’t do anything for us, whereas if we win that or any other trophy now when we have a really solid plan and squad in place that could be a real catalyst for more success.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

For me, I don't think winning any of the domestic cups or the Europa League or Europa Conference League are unrealistic given the resources we have available.

With a half decent draw we could have a chance in any of them although not a huge one but certainly a chance.

 

[alfie103]

Maybe it’s not unrealistic, but none of our coaches since 2001 have won any cups, with the exception of Ramos. In relative terms, they mostly had similar resources to work with.

If we keep appointing coaches and labeling them failures for not winning a trophy, then we either need to question who's responsible for making these repeated "failed" appointments or admit it's not just about the coaches. Either way, it would be unfair to say Ange has failed if he doesn’t win a cup this season without also holding his predecessors—or those who hired them—accountable for the same.

For me, the main problem is the ownership aren't really worried about the cups, the league is priority for them and the managers are told this and then act accordingly or pay the consequences. Now it isn't solely the fault of ENIC why we haven't won any trophies as managers and players also need to take responsibility but if ENIC took winning the domestic cups or non-CL European competitions as seriously as getting into the top 4, I have no doubt we would have won more than 1 trophy when they have been owners.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

Maybe it’s not unrealistic, but none of our coaches since 2001 have won any cups, with the exception of Ramos. In relative terms, they mostly had similar resources to work with.

If we keep appointing coaches and labeling them failures for not winning a trophy, then we either need to question who's responsible for making these repeated "failed" appointments or admit it's not just about the coaches. Either way, it would be unfair to say Ange has failed if he doesn’t win a cup this season without also holding his predecessors—or those who hired them—accountable for the same.

You don't think any of the teams over the last 20 years had the resources to win a trophy yet inferior teams have done? Someone put the peak Poch team in a thread earlier, yiu can't tell me that team didn't have the resources.

 

[NEVILLEB]

Is there an issue having two wingbacks by nature playing with two wide attacking wingers?

Is this overall too attack focused?

Would be better having one or the other?

Porro and Udogie can both defend but they aren’t old school defenders by nature. Their strengths are going forward.

 

[Styopa]

For me, the main problem is the ownership aren't really worried about the cups, the league is priority for them and the managers are told this and then act accordingly or pay the consequences. Now it isn't solely the fault of ENIC why we haven't won any trophies as managers and players also need to take responsibility but if ENIC took winning the domestic cups or non-CL European competitions as seriously as getting into the top 4, I have no doubt we would have won more than 1 trophy when they have been owners.

I completely agree.

There’s been a lot of talk about fans giving Ange time, but the real question is how much time the owners will allow if he doesn’t secure Champions League qualification. For Ange—and every other Spurs coach before him—the unspoken rule seems to be clear: if you don’t get us into the top four, your job’s on the line. That constant pressure to prioritise the league inevitably reduces our chances of winning a cup.

The club has been so laser-focused on finishing in the top four that competing in cups has become secondary. Over the last two decades, we’ve come close several times but always fallen short, partly because the squad gets stretched too thin trying to balance the league and cup competitions.

We’re usually scrambling just to secure fourth place, which often feels like our ceiling, so it’s no wonder we struggle to lift a trophy. A lack of depth compared to other top sides means our best players are often overworked or injured by the time we reach crucial cup fixtures, or we rest them in earlier rounds reducing our chance to progress further in those competitions.

 

[Styopa]

You don't think any of the teams over the last 20 years had the resources to win a trophy yet inferior teams have done? Someone put the peak Poch team in a thread earlier, yiu can't tell me that team didn't have the resources.

I have expanded on this in my post above. However, I would still hold the club’s owners accountable for making poor managerial decisions in that case. It’s not just a matter of bad luck over nearly 25 years.

Anyway, I mainly wanted to emphasise that it would be harsh to condemn Ange for not winning a trophy this season when there are obviously deeper underlying issues at play.

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

And then you'll be first to hound the next guy out the moment it's not clicked into place after a season, so why bother?

Why bother? Because next time we might get a half decent coach, and it will click into place. Like I say, I'm happy to wait until next season, that will be two full seasons for him.

 

[Metalhead]

Why bother? Because next time we might get a half decent coach, and it will click into place. Like I say, I'm happy to wait until next season, that will be two full seasons for him.

That is very kind of you.

 

[eddiebailey]

Is there an issue having two wingbacks by nature playing with two wide attacking wingers?

Is this overall too attack focused?

Would be better having one or the other?

Porro and Udogie can both defend but they aren’t old school defenders by nature. Their strengths are going forward.

My understanding is that they are not supposed to be playing as wingbacks, they are supposed to be inverted full backs, mving inside to overload the midfield rather than getting down the touchline. Congestion in wide forward positions should not be a consequence of the tactical approach. Whether Porro and Udogie are best suited to that role is another matter. I suspect that we will increasingly see midfielders used in these roles.

 

[eddiebailey]

For me Ange scores over Mourinho and Conte in two important respects. The first obviously, is that I enjoy watching us play football again. The second, which is perhaps more relevant to the preceding pages of discussion, is that he seems to have a strategy for improving the squad based on developing players rather than persuading Levy to shell out wheelbarrow loads of cash for players who are the finished article to fit his system. To me his strategy appears more realistic, more sustainable and likely to deliver some degree of success. Trying to play with the big boys when you are not there yet, at best is a recipe for undershooting and at worst gets you broke with a squad made up of over-priced dross.

 

[Stavrogin]

I don’t want to sound mean as I like him and I’m still pretty optimistic, but for me the jury is out on whether he’s a top manager. People can say what they like about how he’s won everywhere he’s gone and they can call me a snob but winning in a sub standard 2 team Scottish league and Japan and Australia doesn’t cut it for me. To prove he’s among the best he’s got to show it among the best and that means us.

If he’s given 2 more years with us and wins fuck all and we don’t finish higher than 8th then I think, depending on how it plays out exactly, that he’s not a top end manager that’s not cut out for this level.

As I say, though, that’s all a big if, I like him and think he’ll adapt and turn it around but at the moment he’s not “clearly a talented manager” he’s a manger that came in and had a good little bounce at the start of his first big job but we’ve been very poor since then. Plenty of time to turn it around but the results and performances have generally been dog shit since November.

I don't think anyone assumes that he's a top manager yet. He's a promising manager, like Pochettino, Redknapp etc. who has never been at this level before.

There is an interesting way of looking at this though. Postecoglou's tactics have very identifiable 'flaws' - he's pointed this out. There are also a lot of benefits from him and his style and we'll never know whether having someone more methodical or defensive would have achieved more. But what is certain that if results do not satisfy us, he'll be lynched for those flaws.

Take last year. In his first year he almost got into the CL against expectations and having had a catastrophic period of injuries, suspensions, etc. But because of the way we lost some of those games, the knives seem to be out quicker than if we'd just plodded, linearly to the same result.

 

[TheHodFather]

I don't think anyone assumes that he's a top manager yet. He's a promising manager, like Pochettino, Redknapp etc. who has never been at this level before.

There is an interesting way of looking at this though. Postecoglou's tactics have very identifiable 'flaws' - he's pointed this out. There are also a lot of benefits from him and his style and we'll never know whether having someone more methodical or defensive would have achieved more. But what is certain that if results do not satisfy us, he'll be lynched for those flaws.

Take last year. In his first year he almost got into the CL against expectations and having had a catastrophic period of injuries, suspensions, etc. But because of the way we lost some of those games, the knives seem to be out quicker than if we'd just plodded, linearly to the same result.

I really like Ange, but you know he's literally the oldest manager in the league, right?

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/trainer/pokalwettbewerb/GB1

 

[mil1lion]

I completely agree.

There’s been a lot of talk about fans giving Ange time, but the real question is how much time the owners will allow if he doesn’t secure Champions League qualification. For Ange—and every other Spurs coach before him—the unspoken rule seems to be clear: if you don’t get us into the top four, your job’s on the line. That constant pressure to prioritise the league inevitably reduces our chances of winning a cup.

The club has been so laser-focused on finishing in the top four that competing in cups has become secondary. Over the last two decades, we’ve come close several times but always fallen short, partly because the squad gets stretched too thin trying to balance the league and cup competitions.

We’re usually scrambling just to secure fourth place, which often feels like our ceiling, so it’s no wonder we struggle to lift a trophy. A lack of depth compared to other top sides means our best players are often overworked or injured by the time we reach crucial cup fixtures, or we rest them in earlier rounds reducing our chance to progress further in those competitions.

I don't think we've sacked managers for not getting top 4 though. We've sacked them when they lost the locker room or performances were on a constant down spiral. I think if Ange keeps the players on side and we don't go into a complete nosedive for a period he'll be fine.

 

[Albertbarich]

Someone on twitter asked Ben Bowman about us possibly trying to replicate Man City’s 3241 /4141 formation and I find it a really intriguing idea.

It would mean dropping a full back but actually it would really suit our squad /centre backs apart as one injury and we’re screwed.

It would look something like…

————————vicario————————
——Dragusin—Romero—VDV————
——————-Porro—-Bissouma———
Johnson—-kulu——Maddison - son
———————-Solanke———————-

It would go into a 4141 when defending with porro dropping back

I know it’s unlikely to happen but found it an interesting idea.