Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[Metalhead]

I think I'm still fairly unengaged with Spurs, and football in particular. I catch the games when I can, but its not effecting my bearing like it used to. I'm patient enough to just take it as it comes, but I've seen the cycle too many times over the last 30 odd years.

You're not wrong.

 

[cjbyid]

I think I'm still fairly unengaged with Spurs, and football in particular. I catch the games when I can, but its not effecting my bearing like it used to. I'm patient enough to just take it as it comes, but I've seen the cycle too many times over the last 30 odd years.

Yeah this pretty much sums up how I am too.

 

[kd2000]

Some have quite rightly stated we have signed youth and we don't make signings of the quality of Bale, Modric, Dembele etc, however, Bale, Modric, Dembele and others were not the quality of Bale, Modric and Dembele when they first signed. Who knows, the likes of Odobert, Gray and Bergvall could reach those levels.

 

[mil1lion]

I’d judge him more on league position than cups as you’re right, it would be harsh to say he’s a failure to not win anything at Spurs.

At the moment he’s done nothing to suggest he’s in Pep’s league but he’s also not had the same opportunities. He’s got a great opportunity with us, though.

Finished 5th after losing Kane which I think in itself is impressive. He does need to prove himself this season too especially with Europe and more signings made. I would say though the players he has finishing between 5th-7th place would be about right. Anything higher is over achieving.

 

[mil1lion]

Some have quite rightly stated we have signed youth and we don't make signings of the quality of Bale, Modric, Dembele etc, however, Bale, Modric, Dembele and others were not the quality of Bale, Modric and Dembele when they first signed. Who knows, the likes of Odobert, Gray and Bergvall could reach those levels.

That's exactly the approach we seem to be going with. Trouble is we rarely produce 2 at the same time and even that isn't enough to win titles. We couldn't win with Son and Kane for several years for example. What we really need is to have some at that level now but also have the young prospects who can reach that level. Then if we lose any of the top players like Bale, Modric or Kane we have someone else that level now developed. We seem to be going with a clean slate which is also fine but would need about 3 or 4 to turn top players to compete at the top. At this moment we need to temper expectations.

 

[E17yid]

Finished 5th after losing Kane which I think in itself is impressive. He does need to prove himself this season too especially with Europe and more signings made. I would say though the players he has finishing between 5th-7th place would be about right. Anything higher is over achieving.

Yeah I think that’s pretty fair. I too think he did well last season for his first year. Ideally we would’ve seen it the other way where we maybe started poorly and got progressively better as the season went on but as you say, overall it was a good first season. Hopefully this season is a bit like that where we finish stronger and look to build on that in year 3.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I don't have a problem with inverting the full backs, or them coming inside and playing high up the pitch. I do have a problem with them being as far advanced as the CF. There have been numerous times when I've watched them basically make a straight line 5 man front line with the CF and two wide players across the opponents 18 yard line, and all this does is add to the congestion in the final third. It also makes it impossible for them to recover on the turn over. get them in the half spaces fine, and let the make runs also, but just one at a time not in tandem leaving us with two players to foil every counter attack.

Completely agree! Basically what me and @Mr Pink have been saying above.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

To compete with City which is where we want to be we need more than an 11 though. If we want to compete at the very top on all fronts we need something like Lloris, Vicario, Udogie, Rose, Walker, Porro, VdV, Vertonghen, Romero, Alderweireld, Modric, Dembele, Wanyama, Bergvall, Gray, Odobert, Bale, Lennon, Son, Van Der Vaart, Eriksen, Kane, Solanke.

Tbh that squad would be even slightly overkill. Porro & Walker at RB and VDV Vertonghen, Romero and Toby at CB no way we’d keep them happy.

I’d say based on what we have today what we need is:

GK:
Vicario
New young GK signing who is just below Vicario’s level but with potential to improve

RB:
Porro & Spence/Gray is ok imo

CB:
Romero,VDV,Dragusin,young 4th CB just below Dragusin level with potential to improve (hopefully one of the ones we have on the books currently)

LB:
New older in prime 1st choice LB, Udogie as young and very capable back-up

CDM:
New top class in prime n.o6 signing
Gray

CM:
New high energy box to box goal threat CM signing
Sarr
Bentancur

AM:
Maddison, Bergvall

RW:
New top class in prime RW signing
Johnson

ST:
Solanke
New young but good level ST signing not far off Solanke level (sell Richy)

LW:
Son
Odobert /Yang / Moore

That squad imo with those 6 additions would have the right balance of in prime ready to go quality and younger player at a good level with high potential to keep improving.

The squad you listed would be incredible but imo actually too strong, Arsenal, Liverpool and City don’t even quite have that level of depth and quality as too hard to keep everyone happy.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

That's exactly the approach we seem to be going with. Trouble is we rarely produce 2 at the same time and even that isn't enough to win titles. We couldn't win with Son and Kane for several years for example. What we really need is to have some at that level now but also have the young prospects who can reach that level. Then if we lose any of the top players like Bale, Modric or Kane we have someone else that level now developed. We seem to be going with a clean slate which is also fine but would need about 3 or 4 to turn top players to compete at the top. At this moment we need to temper expectations.

When Son and Kane were peaking the rest of the squad was a mess, now we have a good balanced overall squad but pretty much no stand out world class consistent players never mind 2 of them.

If Ange finishes anything from 4th-7th with this squad and some reasonably deep cup runs he’ll have done well imo.

Ofc dare to dream but the squad has its limitations as things stand.

Its not quite this simple as the sum of its parts is a true thing but the quality of player does make a humongous difference, take Anchelotti at Chelsea, Milan, Madrid etc, incredible manager, give him Everton’s squad and he struggled, Jose & Conte at Inter and Chelsea etc with stacked squads they win, they move to Spurs, Roma, Napoli… they struggle.

What Ange does have is a track record of over 2-3 seasons with teams he rebuilds squads and improves teams and usually gets results / success, the issue he has here is it’s a huge rebuild job in the hardest league in the world, it’ll take time and good recruitment and even then it’s still a huge huge ask for him to win with the tools he has at his disposal vs the usual suspects.

Sure Ange’s tactics have a few holes/weaknesses but I doubt barely any other manager would do much better than finishing around 5th with this squad this season, we are just no where near City,Liverpool,Arsenal and then we have to compete with Newcastle,Chelsea,Man.U,Villa, possibly even Brighton etc.

The older I’ve got the more patient I’ve become but the more i can see the reality and the reality is that without some genuinely top signings this Jan and next summer, it’ll be incredibly difficult for Ange or any other manger in world football to get us anything better than 4th and some deep cup runs with this squad vs the competition. *unless ofc City are out of the picture*

 

[Yiddo1982]

I love the fact we are signing youth talent. My only issue is that Ange is now banging the "win now" drum in the press. The youth investment needs to be supplemented with a few "win now" players.

 

[RuskyM]

I think I'm still fairly unengaged with Spurs, and football in particular. I catch the games when I can, but its not effecting my bearing like it used to. I'm patient enough to just take it as it comes, but I've seen the cycle too many times over the last 30 odd years.

This might be why I'm so enthused and protective over the few things that make me feel something in football, given how miserable so much of it is. I really want to believe good blokes like Ange (and Southgate with England before) can succeed, largely by virtue of being good blokes. I find so much of it so desparingly bleak and unrelatable, becoming moreso every year, so people that can cut through that feel special to me.

 

[mil1lion]

When Son and Kane were peaking the rest of the squad was a mess, now we have a good balanced overall squad but pretty much no stand out world class consistent players never mind 2 of them.

If Ange finishes anything from 4th-7th with this squad and some reasonably deep cup runs he’ll have done well imo.

Ofc dare to dream but the squad has its limitations as things stand.

Its not quite this simple as the sum of its parts is a true thing but the quality of player does make a humongous difference, take Anchelotti at Chelsea, Milan, Madrid etc, incredible manager, give him Everton’s squad and he struggled, Jose & Conte at Inter and Chelsea etc with stacked squads they win, they move to Spurs, Roma, Napoli… they struggle.

What Ange does have is a track record of over 2-3 seasons with teams he rebuilds squads and improves teams and usually gets results / success, the issue he has here is it’s a huge rebuild job in the hardest league in the world, it’ll take time and good recruitment and even then it’s still a huge huge ask for him to win with the tools he has at his disposal vs the usual suspects.

Sure Ange’s tactics have a few holes/weaknesses but I doubt barely any other manager would do much better than finishing around 5th with this squad this season, we are just no where near City,Liverpool,Arsenal and then we have to compete with Newcastle,Chelsea,Man.U,Villa, possibly even Brighton etc.

The older I’ve got the more patient I’ve become but the more i can see the reality and the reality is that without some genuinely top signings this Jan and next summer, it’ll be incredibly difficult for Ange or any other manger in world football to get us anything better than 4th and some deep cup runs with this squad vs the competition. *unless ofc City are out of the picture*

We have to consider that the team Poch had which is in my view the best we've had in this league still finished 2nd. The highest points we got then was 86. The team we have now is not as good but they have potential to become as good or better. Yet we need probably around 100 points to win the league. It's tougher than ever to compete a the top. Nothing wrong with being happy with a young developing team finishing in Europe. That doesn't mean you can't also want more either but I think some people go a bit overboard demanding to be the best. Everyone wants to be the best so it's not easy.

 

[vAs]

I'm on this opinion since the early Pochettino days: to seriously challenge for the league, we must first develop the most crucial attribute for player to have —a winning mentality, something we've clearly been lacking. Pochettino's tenure showed us the significance of this mindset on several occasions. The formula is simple: start winning trophies. That’s why I’ve always believed that winning a cup is far more important than finishing 3rd to 7th in the league. Given the talent in our squad, Ange should be aiming for a cup win this season—anything less in my eyes would be underachieving. For me, a cup win is worth more than a 4th-place finish, and failing to deliver at least a SF should signal the end of Ange's tenure in my opinion.

 

[jakuba]

I love the fact we are signing youth talent. My only issue is that Ange is now banging the "win now" drum in the press. The youth investment needs to be supplemented with a few "win now" players.

My hope is that for the last fee years now we have been active in January - obviously with different levels of success with Danjuma one side and Deki, Bentancur on the other.

This has helped us in refreshing the squad, so hopefully we can continue that trend of adding 1 or 2 players to the squad to keep reinforcing where we need to. Obviously we’d all rather this done in summer but we’ve seen over and over again how hard it is to do all the necessary business over a summer.

 

[thebenjamin]

My hope is that for the last fee years now we have been active in January - obviously with different levels of success with Danjuma one side and Deki, Bentancur on the other.

This has helped us in refreshing the squad, so hopefully we can continue that trend of adding 1 or 2 players to the squad to keep reinforcing where we need to. Obviously we’d all rather this done in summer but we’ve seen over and over again how hard it is to do all the necessary business over a summer.

Thing is what we need now is out and out first team upgrades. No more squad players. Hard to get established quality in January, if indeed we have any intention of shopping in that market.

 

[Wig]

Tbh that squad would be even slightly overkill. Porro & Walker at RB and VDV Vertonghen, Romero and Toby at CB no way we’d keep them happy.

I’d say based on what we have today what we need is:

GK:
Vicario
New young GK signing who is just below Vicario’s level but with potential to improve

RB:
Porro & Spence/Gray is ok imo

CB:
Romero,VDV,Dragusin,young 4th CB just below Dragusin level with potential to improve (hopefully one of the ones we have on the books currently)

LB:
New older in prime 1st choice LB, Udogie as young and very capable back-up

CDM:
New top class in prime n.o6 signing
Gray

CM:
New high energy box to box goal threat CM signing
Sarr
Bentancur

AM:
Maddison, Bergvall

RW:
New top class in prime RW signing
Johnson

ST:
Solanke
New young but good level ST signing not far off Solanke level (sell Richy)

LW:
Son
Odobert /Yang / Moore

That squad imo with those 6 additions would have the right balance of in prime ready to go quality and younger player at a good level with high potential to keep improving.

The squad you listed would be incredible but imo actually too strong, Arsenal, Liverpool and City don’t even quite have that level of depth and quality as too hard to keep everyone happy.

Poor Kulusevski!

 

[Westmorlandspur]

I don't have a problem with inverting the full backs, or them coming inside and playing high up the pitch. I do have a problem with them being as far advanced as the CF. There have been numerous times when I've watched them basically make a straight line 5 man front line with the CF and two wide players across the opponents 18 yard line, and all this does is add to the congestion in the final third. It also makes it impossible for them to recover on the turn over. get them in the half spaces fine, and let the make runs also, but just one at a time not in tandem leaving us with two players to foil every counter attack.

He will have to tweak it a bit , otherwise it will cost him his job. We have hardly beaten a top half team since Xmas. Take away last season first 10 games and we were 10th. I know it’s pointless doing that , why not take away Villa winning 12 home games in a row You might say. But there is a definite pattern which needs halting.

 

[mil1lion]

I'm on this opinion since the early Pochettino days: to seriously challenge for the league, we must first develop the most crucial attribute for player to have —a winning mentality, something we've clearly been lacking. Pochettino's tenure showed us the significance of this mindset on several occasions. The formula is simple: start winning trophies. That’s why I’ve always believed that winning a cup is far more important than finishing 3rd to 7th in the league. Given the talent in our squad, Ange should be aiming for a cup win this season—anything less in my eyes would be underachieving. For me, a cup win is worth more than a 4th-place finish, and failing to deliver at least a SF should signal the end of Ange's tenure in my opinion.

I don't disagree about winning a trophy but I do disagree that not winning one is under achieving. We've not won one since 2008 and only won 2 since 1992. The expectations are just not realistic. If we signed top players I could understand.

 

[alfie103]

I don't disagree about winning a trophy but I do disagree that not winning one is under achieving. We've not won one since 2008 and only won 2 since 1992. The expectations are just not realistic. If we signed top players I could understand.

For me, I don't think winning any of the domestic cups or the Europa League or Europa Conference League are unrealistic given the resources we have available.

 

[thekneaf]

Thing is what we need now is out and out first team upgrades. No more squad players. Hard to get established quality in January, if indeed we have any intention of shopping in that market.

Agreed, from now on you upgrade the squad by forcing current first teamers to the bench